falling off the Bryant bandwagon

[George O'Brien]

I thought the trial wasn't even supposed to start until september?

You may be right. I haven't followed the trial stuff very closely and they were saying late August a few months ago.

 

[Joe Mama]

If the Phoenix Suns were to sign Kobe Bryant this summer I would bet that Shawn Marion and/or JJ would not be with the team after next summer. I'm not saying the Suns would just unload them for nothing either. They would trade down for pieces that fit better around the two stars. Actually, Shawn Marion is a nice fit as a third option, but he's just too expensive, especially with Kobe and Amare at the max.

Joe Mama

 

[F-Dog]

He also pretty much shut down Rip until Billups got hot at which point he shut down Billups. Rip then got hot agian. Kobe can only guard one man, but the man he would guard during parts of the game (he was often switched back and forth) did nothing compared to the other guard.

You're thinking of one game--game 3, when Kobe also scored 11 points.

The other four games, he was letting both players get around him, although he was never the turnstile that Gary Payton was.

 

[slinslin]

2. The Colangelos are unlikely to sign him BEFORE the trial is over, which is late August at the earliest.
.

You gotta be kidding.

If the Suns can they will sign Kobe as soon as possible. Kobe is certainly not going to wait until the end of his trial to sign a new contract.

And if he is convicted his contract is voided anyway and the Suns would have capspace next season. It's not like they miss out of any big time FAs that can't be had in other years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're thinking of one game--game 3, when Kobe also scored 11 points.

The other four games, he was letting both players get around him, although he was never the turnstile that Gary Payton was.

really - he was letting Rip get around him to the tune of 5-16 for a whopping 12 points and 6 turnovers in Game 1 and 10-25 (did have 26 - but it took him 25 shots to get there) and 5 TOs including that facial block he had on one of Rip's jumper's in Game 2? Doesn't sound like he was letting Rip get around him to me there?

Or Game 4 when Rip was 5-11 with another 5 turnovers. And jeez - Rip even shot 6-18 in Game 5.

But Kobe did suck ass in the Finals - but one series doesn't not a player make - hell otherwise Mark West would be the greatest center of all time for that series against the Lakers in 1990 when we knocked their number 1 ass out of the playoffs and sent Riley packing.

Regardless of this last series - and court case - this team is freaking ******** if they don't go after Kobe with everything they've got. People were talking about the same stuff with Michael after they lost to the Pistons the year before they finally broke through - as he shot 10-29 and 10-21 in the first two game sof that series against a defense he hadn't figured out how to beat.

This kid - if put with the talent on this team will grow up and finally have guys he can trust - and then we'd be unstoppable - what's the worst that could happen - he doesn't work out - but everyone's still drooling over him and we trade his ass away - nothing else has been working for the last decade - it's time for a bold move - a move like getting someone who Spit on a little girl and said as much that he quit on his team during the season - you know who that was - Charles - and with him we had our only real shot - it's time for another move like that.

 

[sly fly]

I remain skeptical about Bryant, but there's no doubt in my mind that he has more heart than Barkley did.

Admit it, Eric. Your going to bruise the top of your head from jumping so high if PHX signs Kobe.



Theat skepticism will be replaced by unending optimism if that happens.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

You gotta be kidding.

If the Suns can they will sign Kobe as soon as possible. Kobe is certainly not going to wait until the end of his trial to sign a new contract.

And if he is convicted his contract is voided anyway and the Suns would have capspace next season. It's not like they miss out of any big time FAs that can't be had in other years.

Exactly. I have been saying the exact same thing for months now.......

 

[elindholm]

Admit it, Eric. Your going to bruise the top of your head from jumping so high if PHX signs Kobe.

Sure, I admit I'd be optimistic. The Suns have had an MVP candidate on their roster only one other time in the last 25 years or so.

But I have to say that the present supporting cast that Bryant would have on the Suns looks less good than the one that Barkley had.

Other major star: Kevin Johnson vs. Stoudemire, edge to Barkley's squad (for now).
Third option: Majerle vs. Marion, slight edge to Bryant's squad.
Miscellanous big person committee: Edge to Barkley's squad (West, Miller, Chambers, ...).
Perimeter bench weapons: Ainge is better than any similar player on the current Suns.

In other words, yes, I'd be optimistic, but I wouldn't really expect a championship contender. Not yet, anyway. When Barkley came over, it was clear that the Suns were ready for a title run immediately. That wouldn't be the case here.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Another advantage of this group is that they wouldn't have to win a championship in the first year; the average age of the group would allow them to remain contenders for 5+ years with the age of the core group being so low.

 

[sly fly]

Another advantage of this group is that they wouldn't have to win a championship in the first year; the average age of the group would allow them to remain contenders for 5+ years with the age of the core group being so low.

Great point.

Tons of pressure the first year Barkley was here. I remember thinking the sky was falling when they 'almost' choked their first regular season game away against the Clips.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Admit it, Eric. Your going to bruise the top of your head from jumping so high if PHX signs Kobe.

Sure, I admit I'd be optimistic. The Suns have had an MVP candidate on their roster only one other time in the last 25 years or so.

But I have to say that the present supporting cast that Bryant would have on the Suns looks less good than the one that Barkley had.

Other major star: Kevin Johnson vs. Stoudemire, edge to Barkley's squad (for now).
Third option: Majerle vs. Marion, slight edge to Bryant's squad.
Miscellanous big person committee: Edge to Barkley's squad (West, Miller, Chambers, ...).
Perimeter bench weapons: Ainge is better than any similar player on the current Suns.

In other words, yes, I'd be optimistic, but I wouldn't really expect a championship contender. Not yet, anyway. When Barkley came over, it was clear that the Suns were ready for a title run immediately. That wouldn't be the case here.

yeah - but that team's window was really only gonna be available for three years - four at the max - I mean Barkley was already 30 at that time - With Kobe, it would be like the 1988 Bulls - young hungry and ready to possibly domninate for a decade rather than just three years.

And as far as putting Marion at an advantage over Thunder - e - I think you've hit the crack pipe - we're talking about an All-Star who already showed more heart and desire in his first game than Marion has ever done here - not to mention clutch play and shooting - although Majerle really did improve by leaps and bounds from the perimeter between pre and post Charles summer - you thinkMarions every gonna hit shots like Majerle did against the Lakers in Game 5, Seattle in Game 5 or the Bulls in Games 3 and 5?

That team was made to win a title immediately and challenge for three years - this team's with Kobe would be built for the long haul.

 

[elindholm]

And as far as putting Marion at an advantage over Thunder - e - I think you've hit the crack pipe - we're talking about an All-Star

Majerle made only one All-Star team, I think -- the same number as Marion so far.

not to mention clutch play and shooting

If you say so. I don't see how a "clutch" player can shoot an airball from ten feet in the closing minute of Game 6 against the Bulls in 1993. If Majerle even draws iron on that shot, the Suns have enough time to stop the ensuing Bulls break, and chances are we go to a Game 7.

although Majerle really did improve by leaps and bounds from the perimeter between pre and post Charles summer

Huh? You'll have to be clearer on what you mean by this, since it certainly isn't supported by any statistics.

you thinkMarions every gonna hit shots like Majerle did against the Lakers in Game 5, Seattle in Game 5 or the Bulls in Games 3 and 5?

Probably not, but I can imagine him coming up with a key offensive rebound or defensive stop. I don't love Marion, but I do think he's better than Majerle was.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And as far as putting Marion at an advantage over Thunder - e - I think you've hit the crack pipe - we're talking about an All-Star

Majerle made only one All-Star team, I think -- the same number as Marion so far.

not to mention clutch play and shooting

If you say so. I don't see how a "clutch" player can shoot an airball from ten feet in the closing minute of Game 6 against the Bulls in 1993. If Majerle even draws iron on that shot, the Suns have enough time to stop the ensuing Bulls break, and chances are we go to a Game 7.

although Majerle really did improve by leaps and bounds from the perimeter between pre and post Charles summer

Huh? You'll have to be clearer on what you mean by this, since it certainly isn't supported by any statistics.

you thinkMarions every gonna hit shots like Majerle did against the Lakers in Game 5, Seattle in Game 5 or the Bulls in Games 3 and 5?

Probably not, but I can imagine him coming up with a key offensive rebound or defensive stop. I don't love Marion, but I do think he's better than Majerle was.

Okay point number 1 - EVERYONE had their own hands around their necks at the end of that game - with about 2 minutes left Charles missed a chippie - one of those bump the guy in the lane left handed push shots - then when Majerle did get the ball at the end it was because floundering Frank Johnson passed up a wide open jumper from the corner of the key - Thunder had about a second to get the shot off - but no doubt he short-armed it.

However, you point to one game - when EVERYONE choked as opposed to looking at that entire playoff year - which was detailed below - and Marion getting a Defensive stop - you must be joking.

As far as Majerle getting better from the perimeter - I don't have the stats in front of me, but I know that he was no where near the league leaders in 3 pointers made the year before Barkely or precertage wise - but he was in 1993 - I mean are you telling me that Thunder was always taking Crazy Dan Majerle Shots from thre, four and five feet behind the line and making them before Charles got here - if you are - we must have been watching different Suns teams.

Marion has NEVER - I'll repeat - NEVER made a big play or had a good playoffs in his entire career here - at least Majerle's game continued to evolve - from a tough kid who just who would mix it up - to someone who could actually drive to the hole with some semblance of control - to the second most clutch player on the team - whereas Marion has seemed to plateau and even digress last season. Once again - the next big play or shot that Shawn Marion makes will be his first.

 

[elindholm]

As far as Majerle getting better from the perimeter - I don't have the stats in front of me, but I know that he was no where near the league leaders in 3 pointers made the year before Barkely or precertage wise - but he was in 1993

He was not among the leaders in percentage. He was among the leaders in makes, but that's because he put up about a zillion shots -- the direct result of the Suns having a strong interior presence in Barkley.

Majerle's big claim to fame was that he had great range and wasn't afraid to shoot when open. That's great, but it's just one part of the game. I think Marion's game is more complete, but I guess this is one of those "agree to disagree" situations.

 

[sly fly]

I'll end this debate right now.

I'd rather throw out 5 Dan Majerles on the floor than 5 Shawn Marions.

Majerle's team would lock down Marion's, and leave them bruised and battered.

Majerle's competitiveness is his biggest advantage over Marion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

As far as Majerle getting better from the perimeter - I don't have the stats in front of me, but I know that he was no where near the league leaders in 3 pointers made the year before Barkely or precertage wise - but he was in 1993

He was not among the leaders in percentage. He was among the leaders in makes, but that's because he put up about a zillion shots -- the direct result of the Suns having a strong interior presence in Barkley.

Majerle's big claim to fame was that he had great range and wasn't afraid to shoot when open. That's great, but it's just one part of the game. I think Marion's game is more complete, but I guess this is one of those "agree to disagree" situations.

okay. still shooting 38 percent from three is pretty good and are you saying that Majerle was one dimensional -- that he didn't play defense and make the hustle plays that Marion does

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'll end this debate right now.

I'd rather throw out 5 Dan Majerles on the floor than 5 Shawn Marions.

Majerle's team would lock down Marion's, and leave them bruised and battered.

Majerle's competitiveness is his biggest advantage over Marion.

that couldn't be said any better Sly.

 

[cly2tw]

In other words, yes, I'd be optimistic, but I wouldn't really expect a championship contender. Not yet, anyway. When Barkley came over, it was clear that the Suns were ready for a title run immediately. That wouldn't be the case here.

But, Eric, do you have a better route of building a title contender in the near future other than seizing the chance to sign Kobe?

 

[George O'Brien]

I never thought that Thunder Dan didn't try to play defense, it was just that he was too slow to defend the SG position. He was a lot better as an SF, but that was taken.