Faster is better?

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1003sunsprev10030.html

Suns will be fast and hope to be good
Team looks to build on renewed interest

Bob Young
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 3, 2003 12:00 AM


Optimism always runs rampant at the start of training camp, and the Suns were basking in more attention than they've had in three years at their annual media day Thursday at America West Arena.

Of course, the postseason absence of a certain baseball team that works next door might have had something to do with that.

But after a 44-38 season that got the Suns back into the playoffs, and with the emergence of Amare Stoudemire, there is a bit of a buzz around the place again.

Penny Hardaway subscribes to the Big Boom Theory for the renewed interest.

"We showed promise last year," the veteran guard said. "We went further than people thought that we would. And Amare was a big surprise. He came into the league with a big boom, and won Rookie of the Year. Nobody expected that, and that's what has taken us to the next level."

But after a relatively quiet off-season, the Suns traded center Jake Tsakalidis and forward Bo Outlaw on Tuesday, making an already small team even smaller.

They plan to compensate by running and gunning around a core that includes Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Stephon Marbury in a Western Conference loaded with talent and size.

"I'm looking forward to it," Stoudemire said. "It's going to make us a better team, totally different. Most teams in the West are big. A lot of teams can't get up and down as fast as we can.

"I think Shawn is probably the fastest small forward in the league. I might be the fastest power forward in the league. Stephon may be the fastest point guard in the league, so you can go right down the line. We can get up and down the court pretty quick.

"I think we've got the advantage, to be honest with you. Big teams are kind of slow on their feet."

Coach Frank Johnson admitted there is some concern about matching up with big teams, but then the Suns have never matched up that well with them anyway.

"We have skilled 6-foot-11 and 6-9 guys on the perimeter, and they have to guard us as well," he said. "We won't be able to pound it inside, but we didn't do that last year. Hopefully, we can open up the middle for Stephon and give Shawn and Amare more room to operate."

The trade also figures to open up playing time for veteran Tom Gugliotta and rookie Zarko Cabarkapa, a 6-foot-11 forward from Serbia and Montenegro.

Gugliotta figures the faster pace will help him, especially since he has shed about 10 pounds.

"We don't have a lot of size," he said. "We're not a half-court team. It isn't going to benefit us to stay in the half-court even half the time.

"We're going to be better off running and wearing the other teams' big guys out."

Side notes:

Suns camp report

Penny will apply
Guard Penny Hardaway read with interest that coach Frank Johnson has opened up the off-guard job.

"I just laugh at it," he said. "It doesn't matter. I'm just going to play basketball. I have to prove myself over and over again. So what? I know how my game is right now, and I don't worry about anything.

"I want to win a championship. However we're going to go about doing it, let's do it together. I'm not going to ruffle any feathers; just think about somebody always saying your job is open every year."

Here today
Guard Brevin Knight reported after the Suns waived a physical on him to complete Tuesday's trade, but there already is speculation that Knight could move on eventually. The Suns are looking to trim payroll, and Knight is in the last year of a contract.

Utah was reportedly interested in him, and the Jazz have enough salary-cap space to absorb Knight's contract without having to give anything more than a draft pick in return.

But Jazz coach Jerry Sloan told reporters in Utah: "I'm not going to bring a veteran in. I'm going to play these young guys. If we get into a bind and maybe have to do something like that, I'll approach that bridge later."

Injury update
Center Jake Voskuhl was held out of court work Thursday because of Achilles' tendinitis. Forward Amare Stoudemire missed the workout because of a sore throat.
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Playing scrub centers isn't the way to win championships either. And Michael Jordan proved that you can win championships without a real center.

Besides that the Suns don't even have to go small.

It is funny. Small ball used to be Nash/KJ/Person/Chapman/Finley lineups and such.

Now you want to complain about


Marbury 6'2 , Penny 6'7, Joe Johnson 6'8, Shawn Marion 6'7, Amare Stoudemire 6'10, Zarko Cabarkapa 6'11-7', Jake Voshkul 6'11...
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,495
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Jordan had a center who could hit open jumpers. He had a very versitile big power forwards.

Time will show who is right, but Marbury, Hardaway, Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire lineup will not get out of the first round. EVER!
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
If Marbury wasn't injured they might have made it out of the first round in Amare's rookie season already.
So screw that.

The constant crying after the trade is making me sick. Enough is enough.
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Almost everyone

- crying about Big Joke leaving
- crying about B Utlaw leaving
- suddenly start crying about small ball

It's annoying.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,495
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
In this particilar discussion?

I didn't say ANYTHING about Bo Outlaw and Jake Suckalidis.
If you go back and read what I said when the trade happened, you will find that I was happy we got rid of Bo's contract.

Sudden crying about smallball?
You have got to be kidding me. Several posters here including myself have been crying about small ball FOREVER!

Shawn Marion is not a power forward, and neither is Joe Johnson. They can not guard Tim Duncans, Chris Webbers, Elton Brands, Karl Malones, Kenyon Martins and KGs of this world. They will be eaten alive even by average PF's.
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Originally posted by SirStefan32

Sudden crying about smallball?
You have got to be kidding me. Several posters here including myself have been crying about small ball FOREVER!

Shawn Marion is not a power forward, and neither is Joe Johnson. They can not guard Tim Duncans, Chris Webbers, Elton Brands, Karl Malones, Kenyon Martins and KGs of this world. They will be eaten alive even by average PF's.

So why are you a Suns fan? They have always been playing some "small" ball.

Marion did pretty well against Garnett and I am sure he could guard Martin as well.
Especially with his new added strength.

The truth is as a matter of fact that the Suns played their best basketball last season when they played JJ, Penny, Marbury, Marion and Amare.

The thread originally didn't even had any mention of "small" ball before you brought it up.
The article merely mentioned that the Suns are smaller because of losing a player who wouldn't make a good contribution anyway.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
22,686
Reaction score
12,438
Location
Laveen, AZ
I AM NOT CRYING ABOUT THE TRADE! I LOVE IT!!

Face it, Big Jake was the BIGGEST ANCHOR we ahve had in years!! For whatever reason, Frank Johnson was not playing him, so it's not like we are losing anything trading a player the coach refuses to play. Maybe you can complain about the coach, but that's another matter.

What is this team being built around? Speed and Athleticism! This is the best news I have got from Frank Johnson in years!! He is finally going to coach around our STRENGTHS! Amazing it took him so long to figure this out. We probably have the three fastest guys at their positions in Amare, Marion, and Marbury, yet we played halfcourt ball last year.

I think speed is the way to go. How mant teams do you see scoring over 100 points a game anymore? A lot less than those who don't. I remember when the Suns averaged over 120+ points a game at the Colleseum and blew teams out. Now, with scoring so low in the NBA nowdays, if we can light it up, most teams will not be able to keep pace over four quarters. It's just not the NBA game anymore. Heck, there are playoff teams that only have two guys who can score consistently. The NBA Champs had Tim Duncan and whoever could get hot that night. They just hoped you played half court and kept the game close so Tim could win it down the stretch for them.

I really hope Frank opens up the fullcourt fastbreak game for us again. Marion is better in open court, so is Marbury and Amare. Why wouldn't you try and get those guys into more open court situations if you could? This is the first move by FJ that has made sense to me.
 

cheng

Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
183
Reaction score
0
I have to agree with Stefan.

Marbury, Hardaway, Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire lineup will not get out of the first round. EVER!

I am sick and tired of watching scrab like Malik Rose dominating Marion or Johnson inside the paint, not to mention other elite PF like Wallace, Webber and KG.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,495
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Originally posted by slinslin
So why are you a Suns fan? They have always been playing some "small" ball.

Marion did pretty well against Garnett and I am sure he could guard Martin as well.
Especially with his new added strength.

The truth is as a matter of fact that the Suns played their best basketball last season when they played JJ, Penny, Marbury, Marion and Amare.

The thread originally didn't even had any mention of "small" ball before you brought it up.
The article merely mentioned that the Suns are smaller because of losing a player who wouldn't make a good contribution anyway.

SOME small ball I don't have a problem with.

Play two guards, a SF and two PF's. Play 2 point guards, a third guard, a PF and a C. That's fine. But three guards, an undersized SF, and a PF.

Amare Stoudemire is a better PF than a C.
Shawn Marion is a better SF than a PF.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
22,686
Reaction score
12,438
Location
Laveen, AZ
So why would you play them straight up, Cheng? Why not run on them and make THEM play to YOUR strengths? Take the other team out of their game! So you would want to trade the second best PG in the league? The second best SF in the game? Ande last year's ROY? What lineup do you want? The Lakers? The Mavs? If your tired of watching this Suns team, then maybe Sacramento, or whoever is the team for you! :D
 

elindholm

edited for content
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
27,495
Reaction score
9,716
Location
L.A. area
Gugliotta figures the faster pace will help him, especially since he has shed about 10 pounds.

That's impressive. I wonder which supplement he took?
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
22,686
Reaction score
12,438
Location
Laveen, AZ
I don't know what supplement Googs took, but his only asset at power forward used to be his ability to run the court for a big man. If he says he can do it this year, at his age, for a full season, I may have to buy that supplement!! :D
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,495
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Originally posted by Yuma
I don't know what supplement Googs took, but his only asset at power forward used to be his ability to run the court for a big man. If he says he can do it this year, at his age, for a full season, I may have to buy that supplement!! :D

I always thought his only asset was his ability to make 18 foot jumpers. I don't remember Googs ever "running well."
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
22,686
Reaction score
12,438
Location
Laveen, AZ
Wallace, Garnett, Duncan and Webber can RUN. Marion can't defend them in the post.

The last time I saw Webber run back to play defense, I think he was wearing Michigan's colors! That guy can run upcourt to make a layup, but he won't do more than a jog to get back on D! That's why his game is stagnating! He's been the same player for the last four years, if not declining, IMHO. :D
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
22,686
Reaction score
12,438
Location
Laveen, AZ
I always thought his only asset was his ability to make 18 foot jumpers. I don't remember Googs ever "running well."

See vintage Googs, model prior to Phoenix Suns!! He was a racecar on his other two squads. We picked him up when he needed a major overhaul, appearantly! :D

The same applies to Penny Hardaway! See vintage Penny model for speed on the breakaway and rim rocking dunks!! :D We picked up the sedan model of Hardaway, or maybe the luxury version!! :D
 
Last edited:

cheng

Veteran
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
183
Reaction score
0
The problem is the coaching, I have never liked FJ. Marbury, Marion and Stoudemire are top players at their natural positions. I don't dislike them, I just don't like small ball which fails every time in the playoffs.

I don't think small ball will ever bring us out of first round especially now first round is best out of 7. The chances of upsetting a better team in a 7 game series are much smaller than in 5 games.

I rather have a lottery pick than seeing us get eliminated because of small ball in the first round every time we make it into the playoffs.
 

Yuma

Suns are my Kryptonite!
Joined
Jan 3, 2003
Posts
22,686
Reaction score
12,438
Location
Laveen, AZ
I honestly think if Marbury had not got hurt against the Spurs, we would have taken them out last year. With Marbs unable to penetrate and finish the last two games, we were toast. We had them really worried until then. It's not like we haven't tried to get bulky guys like Big Jake to play for us and make the lineup bigger, we just have not had ANY luck at all with our big guys. I think that forces a coach to go small. We are just stuck at the center position right now, IMHO. :D
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,495
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Suns match up against the Spurs very well.

We need to remember that beating the Spurs does not equal winning the championship.

Sacramento and Dallas have more firepower than Phoenix. They are deeper and actually have legit PF's and C's.

Wolves are a wild card, but I think they are going to be very good.

Then there are the Lakers.
 
Top