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Errntknght

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Joe Mama, "I don't think Frank Johnson is talking about having Jake Voskuhl run all over the court like Bo Outlaw used to do. He's just saying that Jake Voskuhl brings a lot of energy off the bench. He called Little Jake and Bo Outlaw "two live Crew" last season."

But FJ had Voskuhl doing just that last year - don't you remember him double teaming guards out on the perimeter - and even worse switching onto them when his man set screens? Usually he got carried away and got whistled for a pointless foul. When he started doing that is when Frankie started lauding him for his play.
 
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Joe Mama

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Originally posted by Joe Mama
I don't think Frank Johnson is talking about having Jake Voskuhl run all over the court like Bo Outlaw used to do. He's just saying that Jake Voskuhl brings a lot of energy off the bench. He called Little Jake and Bo Outlaw "two live Crew" last season.

That said, I do agree that Little Jake needs to stay on his man instead of trying to block everything and play everywhere.

Joe Mama

You forgot to include my last statement when you quoted me. I believe the reason they say Jake Voskuhl is the "energy" guy off the bench is that it is an active player, shows a lot of emotion, antique dunks with authority. I do agree that he needs to stop jumping out on the guards. That did more damage than good.

Joe Mama
 

scotsman13

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the real small ball line up came a couple years back with kidd at the point, kj at shooting guard, rex champman at small forward, shawn marion at power forward, and googs at center. we have also had times in the past where they placed rex champman center and add cliff robinson in there and took googs out.

we arent running small ball now. a 6'7" player vs. a 6'7" isnt small ball. when shawn marion is going against rose that isnt small ball that is basketball. as far as marions playoff this guy gets the other teams best defender on him all the time. last year the spurs put bowen on him. marion scored 3 points a game less then he did during the reg. season, but he also grabbed 3 more boards a game. so bowen was able to cut into his scoring but let him run wild on the boards. bowen also cut into kobes production to in the playoffs. so give marion a brake.
 

JCSunsfan

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Originally posted by scotsman13
the real small ball line up came a couple years back with kidd at the point, kj at shooting guard, rex champman at small forward, shawn marion at power forward, and googs at center. we have also had times in the past where they placed rex champman center and add cliff robinson in there and took googs out.


We also ran it with Marbury or Kidd, Delk at the 2, Penny or another guard at the 3, Marion at the 4, and Pf. We even had times where we ran a 4 guard lineup.

Usually these were desperation line ups because we were down by double digits and had to do something.

Running, and heaving up 3's can get you back into a game quickly, if you get lucky.
 

jimjames1

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the real small ball line up came a couple years back with kidd at the point, kj at shooting guard, rex champman at small forward, shawn marion at power forward, and googs at center. we have also had times in the past where they placed rex champman center and add cliff robinson in there and took googs out.

Isn't it illegal to have a player playing in college and in the NBA at the same time? Because we never have been able to have a lineup of Kidd, KJ, Marion, and Googs.. In the 2000 playoffs, KJ and Marion played together but that was only because Kidd and Googs were both out with injuries, and KJ came out of retirement to help his old squad in a pretty desperate circumstance. Before that, if Kidd, KJ, and Googs were all on the floor, Marion would have been still in college playing at UNLV. If Danny Ainge ever tried to employ that lineup above, he would've been fired long before he even got a chance to resign.

However, in those playoffs, KJ couldn't play 40 minutes a game, so we had Penny playing a lot of point, with Todd Day playing some shooting guard. Also, keep in mind Marion was still a rookie, and Cliff Robinson was our starter at the small forward for the majority of the year, and he got a lot of time at that position even during the playoffs. That means we had a 1,2, 3 lineup of 6'7, 6'8, and 6'10. That's hardly small ball. Then, we might have Rodney Rogers at power forward, or Cliff at the 4 when Marion was in the game. At center, we had Luc Longley and Oliver Miller, two pretty decently sized guys. We never ever played Marion at power forward during his rookie season, and if memory serves me correctly, Rex Chapman was out the last 3 weeks of the season and the playoffs because of an appendectomy. Therefore, a lineup of Kidd, KJ, Chapman, Marion, and Googs or Cliffy not only never did occur, but it never even could have.

Sorry Jim, but the whole point of your post is lost on me with absolutely ridiculous statements like this. I value your opinions because you're very well-spoken, but Bo Outlaw will dominat Shawn Marion in the post?? Are you nuts?

Well first of all, my Bo Outlaw dominating Shawn Marion statement was a hyperbole mainly for effect. Nevertheless, if you watched Bo the last 2 years as I know you have, you must've noticed that he has a very good ability at finishing plays under the basket, and he actually isn't a bad post-up player when he doesn't get double-teamed and when he actually gets in a position where he gets the ball in the post. You also must've noticed that the guy has the kind of body Michaelangelo would never have even dreamed of sculpting, so he'd be considerably stronger than Marion. I actually do believe that if Bo Outlaw were matched up 1 on 1 with Shawn Marion in the post, he could score pretty easily. The point I was trying to make is that Shawn Marion, 14 pounds stronger or not, cannot guard power forwards in the post without a double team helper, and obviously it's best if we double team the post as little as possible. Is there anybody in here that really thinks Shawn Marion guarding Chris Webber is a good idea? Or Tim Duncan? Or Adonal Foyle or Antwone Jamison or Kevin Garnet?

I know I don't.
 

Tank

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What I remember of Small Ball was more around 96-97

Kidd
KJ
Person
Chapman/Ceballos
Manning

At least I think I remember seeing lineups like that..... Man that was a LONG time ago.
 

scotsman13

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you are right about marion being on that team. what year was it that we played portland in the playoff? that year they put champman on dudley. we had kidd, kj and champman all on the floor at the sametime.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by jimjames1
Well first of all, my Bo Outlaw dominating Shawn Marion statement was a hyperbole mainly for effect. Nevertheless, if you watched Bo the last 2 years as I know you have, you must've noticed that he has a very good ability at finishing plays under the basket, and he actually isn't a bad post-up player when he doesn't get double-teamed and when he actually gets in a position where he gets the ball in the post. You also must've noticed that the guy has the kind of body Michaelangelo would never have even dreamed of sculpting, so he'd be considerably stronger than Marion. I actually do believe that if Bo Outlaw were matched up 1 on 1 with Shawn Marion in the post, he could score pretty easily. The point I was trying to make is that Shawn Marion, 14 pounds stronger or not, cannot guard power forwards in the post without a double team helper, and obviously it's best if we double team the post as little as possible. Is there anybody in here that really thinks Shawn Marion guarding Chris Webber is a good idea? Or Tim Duncan? Or Adonal Foyle or Antwone Jamison or Kevin Garnet?

I know I don't.
Jim, Outlaw NEVER posted up. Never. Every single one of his points were either 1) at the end of the fast break, or 2) garbage points off loose balls or rebounds.
 

elindholm

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He does post up constantly in the Long Beach summer league, however, and he has an effective offensive game there against halfhearted defense.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by elindholm
He does post up constantly in the Long Beach summer league, however, and he has an effective offensive game there against halfhearted defense.

Oh well, my mistake. I can see how that pertains. :)
 
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