Filling the PG hole this Offseason

[Hoop Head]

The Suns might get lucky if another team throws the max at Russell because Brooklyn is unlikely to match that and keep Dinwiddie. They can match without needing to move Dinwiddie but it's highly unlikely they would keep both headed into next season with their salaries. The Nets will want to make some moves regardless and if they match Russell right away they're basically spent. Unloading Dinwiddie gives them some room to shop. We might even be able to dangle Warren out there because they do need another scorer to go with Russell and that's probably what they'd be looking for this offseason. Leave it up to them, either Warren for Dinwiddie or the Bucks pick for Dinwiddie, they can take their pick. They add a veteran scorer or they add an asset and some financial flexibility. Meanwhile the Suns would address their biggest need, starting PG, with someone who is can play some D, is locked in for the next couple of years, is young enough to match our core but not too young to contribute, and can keep defenses honest with his own shooting/offense.

 

[SunnyBaller]

The Suns might get lucky if another team throws the max at Russell because Brooklyn is unlikely to match that and keep Dinwiddie. They can match without needing to move Dinwiddie but it's highly unlikely they would keep both headed into next season with their salaries. The Nets will want to make some moves regardless and if they match Russell right away they're basically spent. Unloading Dinwiddie gives them some room to shop. We might even be able to dangle Warren out there because they do need another scorer to go with Russell and that's probably what they'd be looking for this offseason. Leave it up to them, either Warren for Dinwiddie or the Bucks pick for Dinwiddie, they can take their pick. They add a veteran scorer or they add an asset and some financial flexibility. Meanwhile the Suns would address their biggest need, starting PG, with someone who is can play some D, is locked in for the next couple of years, is young enough to match our core but not too young to contribute, and can keep defenses honest with his own shooting/offense.

Nets wouldn't even listen to that trade unless they got both , they aren't going to field a worse team just for a little cap space

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Suns might get lucky if another team throws the max at Russell because Brooklyn is unlikely to match that and keep Dinwiddie. They can match without needing to move Dinwiddie but it's highly unlikely they would keep both headed into next season with their salaries. The Nets will want to make some moves regardless and if they match Russell right away they're basically spent. Unloading Dinwiddie gives them some room to shop. We might even be able to dangle Warren out there because they do need another scorer to go with Russell and that's probably what they'd be looking for this offseason. Leave it up to them, either Warren for Dinwiddie or the Bucks pick for Dinwiddie, they can take their pick. They add a veteran scorer or they add an asset and some financial flexibility. Meanwhile the Suns would address their biggest need, starting PG, with someone who is can play some D, is locked in for the next couple of years, is young enough to match our core but not too young to contribute, and can keep defenses honest with his own shooting/offense.

The Nets consider Russell a star and are willing to pay him accordingly. I do not think a max offer for Russell would be problematic for them. They have money.

 

[95pro]

The Nets consider Russell a star and are willing to pay him accordingly. I do not think a max offer for Russell would be problematic for them. They have money.

Do they? I thought they had a few guys that still had a couple of years left on their contracts that they needed to get rid of.

 

[SirStefan32]

They have plenty of money. Howard's contract is up, as are Dudley's, Faried's, and Carrol's.

That said, if Russell gets maxed out, they might be willing to move Dinwiddie for the right price.

 

[Hoop Head]

Nets wouldn't even listen to that trade unless they got both , they aren't going to field a worse team just for a little cap space

You really think they'll pay $40+ million for their PG's for the next 4 years? That's a high price for an 7th or 8th seed.

I know they aren't hurting for cash but the idea of paying both Russell and Dinwiddie limits their options. I'd part with both for Dinwiddie, the Bucks pick and Warren, but that shouldn't be the initial offer. Being willing to send both doesn't mean you lead with both in the initial offer.

No team in the Nets position that is building for the future is looking to lock in almost half of their cap for a starter and his backup, especially on new deals that both start next season. They agreed to an extension with Dinwiddie back in January before Russell started looking like a star. Most thought the Nets were choosing Dinwiddie but then Russell started playing an All-Star level. If they didn't lock Dinwiddie in when they did I'd bet they let him walk this summer and pay Russell because that's too much money to pay 1 position when you have a team like the Nets that needs help elsewhere in their lineup.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You really think they'll pay $40+ million for their PG's for the next 4 years? That's a high price for an 7th or 8th seed.

I know they aren't hurting for cash but the idea of paying both Russell and Dinwiddie limits their options. I'd part with both for Dinwiddie, the Bucks pick and Warren, but that shouldn't be the initial offer. Being willing to send both doesn't mean you lead with both in the initial offer.

No team in the Nets position that is building for the future is looking to lock in almost half of their cap for a starter and his backup, especially on new deals that both start next season. They agreed to an extension with Dinwiddie back in January before Russell started looking like a star. Most thought the Nets were choosing Dinwiddie but then Russell started playing an All-Star level. If they didn't lock Dinwiddie in when they did I'd bet they let him walk this summer and pay Russell because that's too much money to pay 1 position when you have a team like the Nets that needs help elsewhere in their lineup.

Yes, I do. We would gladly pay more than that for Book and Russell. And NY teams have more cash in the bank.

 

[Mainstreet]

Young Wade

Maybe. I have thought about this comparison.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You really think they'll pay $40+ million for their PG's for the next 4 years? That's a high price for an 7th or 8th seed.

I know they aren't hurting for cash but the idea of paying both Russell and Dinwiddie limits their options. I'd part with both for Dinwiddie, the Bucks pick and Warren, but that shouldn't be the initial offer. Being willing to send both doesn't mean you lead with both in the initial offer.

No team in the Nets position that is building for the future is looking to lock in almost half of their cap for a starter and his backup, especially on new deals that both start next season. They agreed to an extension with Dinwiddie back in January before Russell started looking like a star. Most thought the Nets were choosing Dinwiddie but then Russell started playing an All-Star level. If they didn't lock Dinwiddie in when they did I'd bet they let him walk this summer and pay Russell because that's too much money to pay 1 position when you have a team like the Nets that needs help elsewhere in their lineup.

Sure - if they think they're the right guys. Russell is more of a combo guard and Dinwiddie plays some shooting guard and even SF at times so they have no problem pairing them together. I'm not in love with either player though so I wouldn't keep them both at that cost but I don't think the money will scare them away. I think Russell has improved considerably but his lack of quickness will limit how much better he can become.

Thanks to the Super Max, DeAngelo probably will get a max deal but he's just not worth it IMO. It wasn't that long ago that a player at his level wouldn't come close to a max deal. But he's young and healthy so I'm pretty sure that Brooklyn will match a max and move him when he's eligible. There are no major red flags with him so he should be easier to trade than Griffin was and that's preferable to just letting him walk.

 

[slinslin]

If the nets match Russell they would be out of the hunt for the actual big name FAs.

If you go to Nets boards you will see that most of their fans think Russell has to take a discount to stay.

It also seems their management has prepared them for some decisions that might not be popular.

 

[Proximo]

Well, personally I think a top 2-3 pick where we get Morant or Zion is by far the most preferable - for the teams long term success and for salary cap reasons. Just having Zion will allow us to sign a decent vet, because we will be an attractive team due to all the exposure and quality of our young core.

If we strike out on a top 3 pick we should make an offer for Jrue.

If that is denied - then you might try something like making a sign and trade offer for DeAngelo - but I don't think there is a good chance of that at all, because I don't think big time free agents are going to be wanting to go there.

If that goes nowhere, we should go after Brogdan in a sign and trade. He is not a true point guard, but he is a very efficient quality player.

If that doesn't work, we have to go for Conley.

If that doesn't work - we are screwed.

 

[overseascardfan]

If the nets match Russell they would be out of the hunt for the actual big name FAs.

If you go to Nets boards you will see that most of their fans think Russell has to take a discount to stay.

It also seems their management has prepared them for some decisions that might not be popular.

+1. BKY was a 8th seed this year. BKY has been rumored to be an attractive FA destination with a possibility of adding Leonard & Durant they are going to need to not max out Russell. Unless BRK signs Russell last they could use Bird Rights but that is going to be one hell of a tax bill for BKY.

 

[GatorAZ]

I’m starting to think I’d rather trade our pick not named Zion/Morant for Siakam instead of Jrue. He just keeps getting better.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I’m starting to think I’d rather trade our pick not named Zion/Morant for Siakam instead of Jrue. He just keeps getting better.

Yeah, but I think they believe/know they have a star in the making so I can't see him going anywhere.

 

[AzStevenCal]

+1. BKY was a 8th seed this year. BKY has been rumored to be an attractive FA destination with a possibility of adding Leonard & Durant they are going to need to not max out Russell. Unless BRK signs Russell last they could use Bird Rights but that is going to be one hell of a tax bill for BKY.

Bucky has a team? As for the rumors, I think BKN started those. No matter how much they want it to be otherwise, they are not THE New York team.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yeah, but I think they believe/know they have a star in the making so I can't see him going anywhere.

If Kawhi leaves maybe they’d rebuild around the homegrown Barrett.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Kawhi leaves maybe they’d rebuild around the homegrown Barrett.

The Canada connection is nice but Masai loves this guy from what I've heard.

 

[overseascardfan]

Bucky has a team? As for the rumors, I think BKN started those. No matter how much they want it to be otherwise, they are not THE New York team.

The Knicks are a known brand but the toast of the town are the Nets. The Knicks are hot garbage and got rid of their best player in Porzingis. Plus, the Knicks have the worst owner east of the Mississippi, if you're a superstar you can't look past that. Also, Brooklyn is a great place to live so that could appeal to FA's.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Knicks are a known brand but the toast of the town are the Nets. The Knicks are hot garbage and got rid of their best player in Porzingis. Plus, the Knicks have the worst owner east of the Mississippi, if you're a superstar you can't look past that. Also, Brooklyn is a great place to live so that could appeal to FA's.

The Nets have horrible attendance even when they win (dead last this season). The Knicks are still a top 10 team in attendance even when they trade away their fan favorite and finish dead last in the league. Other than the knock on Dolan, nothing you said here matches my understanding of the situation.

 

[Hoop Head]

If Kawhi leaves maybe they’d rebuild around the homegrown Barrett.

They would rebuild around Siakim if Kawhi leaves. They'll dump Lowry and any other older players they have to build a team around Siakim and VanVleet without having to rely on a rookie and staying in the playoffs the whole time. Siakim just turned 25, dumping him to start over completely with a rookie who may not ever reach Siakim's level doesn't make sense.

 

[overseascardfan]

The Nets have horrible attendance even when they win (dead last this season). The Knicks are still a top 10 team in attendance even when they trade away their fan favorite and finish dead last in the league. Other than the knock on Dolan, nothing you said here matches my understanding of the situation.

Attendance is not going to matter to a guy like Durant or Leonard. They have never played in a major market and now value playing for a playoff contender than trying to resurrect a franchise who hasn't been relevant since Ewing left, Durant could have signed with NY when he left OKC but he valued winning so he signed with GS. Both have probably taken note of the disaster of LeBron signing with LA and I can't see either of them taking that chance signing with the Knicks.

If Leonard or Durant end up playing in the state of NY, best bet is it will be in Brooklyn.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Attendance is not going to matter to a guy like Durant or Leonard. They have never played in a major market and now value playing for a playoff contender than trying to resurrect a franchise who hasn't been relevant since Ewing left, Durant could have signed with NY when he left OKC but he valued winning so he signed with GS. Both have probably taken note of the disaster of LeBron signing with LA and I can't see either of them taking that chance signing with the Knicks.

If Leonard or Durant end up playing in the state of NY, best bet is it will be in Brooklyn.

Well, this is a different argument but I'd still disagree. Kawhi is likely going to the Clippers or staying where he's at. Even if he fools us all I can't see him going to New York. I think Durant wants to go somewhere that includes bright lights, contains a team that can win it all and that won't get him branded again as a front runner. His style of play does not seem to match the old school team first style of Atkinson and he won't go to either place without another star on the way. Kyrie and him in New York seems like the fit he's looking for. JMO.

Now, if they relocated the Nets to Riverside, California, I could see Kawhi signing up to play for Kenny. But I think he still wants to stay away from the spotlight and close to home. If he's going to forego both, I can't see why he wouldn't just stay in Toronto.

 

[overseascardfan]

Well, this is a different argument but I'd still disagree. Kawhi is likely going to the Clippers or staying where he's at. Even if he fools us all I can't see him going to New York. I think Durant wants to go somewhere that includes bright lights, contains a team that can win it all and that won't get him branded again as a front runner. His style of play does not seem to match the old school team first style of Atkinson and he won't go to either place without another star on the way. Kyrie and him in New York seems like the fit he's looking for. JMO.

Now, if they relocated the Nets to Riverside, California, I could see Kawhi signing up to play for Kenny. But I think he still wants to stay away from the spotlight and close to home. If he's going to forego both, I can't see why he wouldn't just stay in Toronto.

Leonard could go to LAC, that would make sense since they are an up and coming team in the West but the path in the East is easier than dealing with HOU and GS depending on what happens with Durant in the West. The problem with TOR is they will have $20M in cap space next year but that is without Leonard and Gasol. Leonard is either going to have to take a discount or TOR is going to have to find a way to clear some cap space for him. If Durant leaves GS to go to LAC then I would imagine Leonard would find going home even more appealing. I am just saying Brooklyn could be a dark horse for big name guys. So initially the argument is would Brooklyn want to pay $40M for 2 PG's when they could use the max contract Russell is looking for to stay (he reportedly is looking for $27M a year deal) or do you use the 2 max level spots you have to go hard after Durant and Leonard when you already have Dinwiddie locked up to play PG on a very reasonable deal? That is the question.

 

[Hoop Head]

Leonard could go to LAC, that would make sense since they are an up and coming team in the West but the path in the East is easier than dealing with HOU and GS depending on what happens with Durant in the West. The problem with TOR is they will have $20M in cap space next year but that is without Leonard and Gasol. Leonard is either going to have to take a discount or TOR is going to have to find a way to clear some cap space for him. If Durant leaves GS to go to LAC then I would imagine Leonard would find going home even more appealing. I am just saying Brooklyn could be a dark horse for big name guys. So initially the argument is would Brooklyn want to pay $40M for 2 PG's when they could use the max contract Russell is looking for to stay (he reportedly is looking for $27M a year deal) or do you use the 2 max level spots you have to go hard after Durant and Leonard when you already have Dinwiddie locked up to play PG on a very reasonable deal? That is the question.

Toronto has his bird rights, they don't need to worry about cap space to resign Kawhi or Gasol because they can go over the cap to retain them.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm late to the debate, but no, I don't see us outbidding Houston for Harden back in the day. Yes, Houston got him on an absolute steal, it is one of the dumbest trades (and decisions) in league history, however, the Suns at the time had a roster with absolutely no trade value.

The Suns of 2012 were a team picking up players no one wanted (Beasley, Wes Johnson, Scola, Shannon Brown), dudes who were literally getting waived and involved in salary dump trades. Not only was half our roster made from these players but we were starting these guys and featuring them on billboards.

Our best trade assets were either Markieff Morris and Gortat. Not only did they have very marginal value but they were guys it was really hard to picture the Thunder of the time given even half a squirt about.

One more note though, there are a lot of reasons OKC was stupid and the Sam Presti is wildly overrated, but the biggest is that the gap in their negotiations with Harden was 2 million dollars per year... 2 mil... 2 freaking million. Even if Harden had merely maintained his status is a borderline all-star, that is a criminally stupid and cheap move by the Thunder. It's like... a thousand times stupider than our Joe Johnson fiasco.