Final Thoughts on Patrick Peterson

[Russ Smith]

I think he's soft against the run. I don't know if he's actually publicly said he doesn't want to play the slot but I think in general if the guy in the slot is the one hurting us it's not because he's in the slot, it's because PP isn't covering him.

As for the lack of chasedowns, I think it's a scheme thing. Generally speaking PP is in man coverage with no safety help and the team is often blitzing. So unless his man is the one who breaks free, for him to get a chasedown he almost always has to come from the other side of the field. Safeties get chasedowns, seems like Antron had several, but that's the very definition of safety, they're supposed to be the last line of defense.

I agree on punt returns he just goes down or runs out of bounds now but I think that's really a coaching thing too, I think they coach him to field the ball get what he can and get out of bounds so he doesn't get hurt.

I do think we're spoiled by him we play a style of defense is only possible because we have a guy as good as him taking away a Wr on virtually every play. I think Sherman is a fabulous player but if he played on a team that could only generate a consistent pass rush by blitzing all the time, you'd see Sherman getting beaten far more than he has. He's been on a team that hasn't had to do that, I think if he and PP switched places you'd see PP much better able to fill his role than he could fill PP's/.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch, anyone with an ounce of objectivity would agree with your general assessment of PP... certainly, under no circumstances would anyone suggest that he is a tough/physical presence in our defensive backfield. But when you think of elite, shut-down corners... and guys who have done it for a long period of time, generally speaking they all seem to have this trait in common. And I get it. Particularly now more than ever, when it seems guys are showing up on IR by the droves, not to mention the concussion epidemic, I can totally understand why a CB who is truly elite, which means he has the chance to pile up loads of $$ over a prolonged career - IF HEALTHY - would adopt the style PP has adopted. Yet, I don't see it as problematic... at all. If he were getting burned and costing us game, it would be a different story. But PP, by himself, literally closes down one side of the field. The value in that can't be overstated.

We don't know what this offseason will bring, yet, according to Keim today, we can all expect serious, wholesale changes! I have no clue why you toss out the name of Tyrod Taylor... Seriously?????
Anyway, let hope Keim puts actions to his words and we do see a serious shake-up. Merry Christmas Mitch.

You are right---PP is saving himself. I get that. But, other teams know this and are gunning for him. There comes a time when every player has to step up and make good, fundamental tackles. PP's efforts are embarrassing. Josh Norman exerted his physical presence yesterday and he has a big contract.

As for Tyrod Taylor...I think he would be a gem in BA's offense. Throws a great deep ball. Has a superior TD/int rate. And can escape pressure at any moment. Going with a mobile QB would be wise, imo. Why don't you like him?

Merry Christmas to you and your family, 82.

 

[Mitch]

I think he's soft against the run. I don't know if he's actually publicly said he doesn't want to play the slot but I think in general if the guy in the slot is the one hurting us it's not because he's in the slot, it's because PP isn't covering him.

As for the lack of chasedowns, I think it's a scheme thing. Generally speaking PP is in man coverage with no safety help and the team is often blitzing. So unless his man is the one who breaks free, for him to get a chasedown he almost always has to come from the other side of the field. Safeties get chasedowns, seems like Antron had several, but that's the very definition of safety, they're supposed to be the last line of defense.

I agree on punt returns he just goes down or runs out of bounds now but I think that's really a coaching thing too, I think they coach him to field the ball get what he can and get out of bounds so he doesn't get hurt.

I do think we're spoiled by him we play a style of defense is only possible because we have a guy as good as him taking away a Wr on virtually every play. I think Sherman is a fabulous player but if he played on a team that could only generate a consistent pass rush by blitzing all the time, you'd see Sherman getting beaten far more than he has. He's been on a team that hasn't had to do that, I think if he and PP switched places you'd see PP much better able to fill his role than he could fill PP's/.

Funny but when PP and RSherman were sparring about who the best CB is, Sherman said PP wouldn't play in the Legion of Boom because he brings no boom.

However, you are 100% correct, Russ, that Sherman could not shadow the #1 WR the way PP does.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I probably would just say ‘Peterson is soft’ , and I agree, he is. He is also a hell of a CB.

Better said in two sentences than two pages!

 

[82CardsGrad]

You are right---PP is saving himself. I get that. But, other teams know this and are gunning for him. There comes a time when every player has to step up and make good, fundamental tackles. PP's efforts are embarrassing. Josh Norman exerted his physical presence yesterday and he has a big contract.

As for Tyrod Taylor...I think he would be a gem in BA's offense. Throws a great deep ball. Has a superior TD/int rate. And can escape pressure at any moment. Going with a mobile QB would be wise, imo. Why don't you like him?

Merry Christmas to you and your family, 82.

Yes, Norman is 50x more physical than PP... and he pays the price for it in terms of missing games, or, playing injured and not at 100% effectiveness. Honestly, if we had Palmer, along with Fitz and a halfway decent 2nd option at WR yesterday, Norman would've been toast...he was playing with a banged up right shoulder and could barely lift his right arm!
PP is smart enough to not put himself in situations that often, that can cause that type of damage. He's focused on the long-term, including his post-playing life. While I prefer to see the physicality Norman plays with, again - I can understand why PP plays the way he does.
As for Taylor - while I totally agree that a mobile QB is 100% required... Hell, with Gabbert we've seen the value his legs can provide in terms of extending plays, extending drives and frustrating the opposing defense.
But Taylor?? Hell no... I would much prefer we draft a young, mobile QB who can spend a year under Palmer and then take over...

 

[Arz101]

Yes, Norman is 50x more physical than PP... and he pays the price for it in terms of missing games, or, playing injured and not at 100% effectiveness. Honestly, if we had Palmer, along with Fitz and a halfway decent 2nd option at WR yesterday, Norman would've been toast...he was playing with a banged up right shoulder and could barely lift his right arm!
PP is smart enough to not put himself in situations that often, that can cause that type of damage. He's focused on the long-term, including his post-playing life. While I prefer to see the physicality Norman plays with, again - I can understand why PP plays the way he does.
As for Taylor - while I totally agree that a mobile QB is 100% required... Hell, with Gabbert we've seen the value his legs can provide in terms of extending plays, extending drives and frustrating the opposing defense.
But Taylor?? Hell no... I would much prefer we draft a young, mobile QB who can spend a year under Palmer and then take over...

Agree. Heck, Jaron Brown and JJ Nelson would have embarrassed Josh Norman with Palmer throwing the ball. Palmer made JJ Nelson looks like WR #2 with a awful OL for 10 games or so.

 

[Mitch]

Yes, Norman is 50x more physical than PP... and he pays the price for it in terms of missing games, or, playing injured and not at 100% effectiveness. Honestly, if we had Palmer, along with Fitz and a halfway decent 2nd option at WR yesterday, Norman would've been toast...he was playing with a banged up right shoulder and could barely lift his right arm!
PP is smart enough to not put himself in situations that often, that can cause that type of damage. He's focused on the long-term, including his post-playing life. While I prefer to see the physicality Norman plays with, again - I can understand why PP plays the way he does.
As for Taylor - while I totally agree that a mobile QB is 100% required... Hell, with Gabbert we've seen the value his legs can provide in terms of extending plays, extending drives and frustrating the opposing defense.
But Taylor?? Hell no... I would much prefer we draft a young, mobile QB who can spend a year under Palmer and then take over...

I guess I'm from a different part of the football universe, but i'd rather have a CB like Josh Norman, who leaves it all out on the field, than a CB like Peterson who is playing for long-term goals.

Josh Norman put in one of the greatest seasons i have ever seen from a CB in every aspect of CB play in 2015. He backed it up with a very good year last year 2016 after signing the fat contract with the Redskins. Norman is a baller.

 

[Finito]

Peterson rates out higher than Norman because he's the better player.

Your level of hate towards one of the best Cardinals ever is just beyond me. Sometimes we really have to step back and be thankful for what he have instead of complaining about what we don't have.

I've said it for a long time you don't know what you got till its gone.

If we had Norman you would be all over him for being torched and playing stupid he has a career of me first antics.

Let...it...go

 

[Milgod]

I guess I'm from a different part of the football universe, but i'd rather have a CB like Josh Norman, who leaves it all out on the field, than a CB like Peterson who is playing for long-term goals.

Josh Norman put in one of the greatest seasons i have ever seen from a CB in every aspect of CB play in 2015. He backed it up with a very good year last year 2016 after signing the fat contract with the Redskins. Norman is a baller.

You'd rather have Norman over Peterson? Like, seriously?

 

[Jetstream Green]

With BA:

Tyrod Taylor

Without BA:

Baker Mayfield

i would like new QBs in both cases. How about you? Everyone?

Merry Christmas, JG.

I want Palmer to come back as I stated as a B-style movie suspension bridge and then draft two QBs and let them fight it out, and your opinion is mine too regarding if we took a vet (Taylor works when you have a back like DJ and unlike Cousins or especially Gabbert, Taylor's potential has not been tapped yet) but still would roll the dice on draft picks even with Arians

 

[82CardsGrad]

I guess I'm from a different part of the football universe, but i'd rather have a CB like Josh Norman, who leaves it all out on the field, than a CB like Peterson who is playing for long-term goals.

Josh Norman put in one of the greatest seasons i have ever seen from a CB in every aspect of CB play in 2015. He backed it up with a very good year last year 2016 after signing the fat contract with the Redskins. Norman is a baller.

Yea... any player who isn't afraid to toss his body around like a heat-seeking missile, is always more fun to watch. You know ESPN loves it for their WOW videos!!
But this isn't a binary scenario, where Norman's style somehow produces significantly better results than PP's style. Again, if PP were somehow costing us games, I'd be there with you. But he's not. In fact, he is more often the reason why we are in games and why our defense routinely remains in the upper-tier of the NFL, as he literally forces teams to focus on only half the field (the field opposite of PP).
I also believe Norman will have a shorter career than PP... which, if PP can remain healthy and play at an elite level for another 7-8 years, I am 100% cool with...

 

[Russ Smith]

To use a baseball analogy we all prefer to watch Lenny Dykstra run into walls and dive for fly balls, but there's a reason guys like Dykstra never play full seasons, have short careers and end up hooked on pain pills.

 

[Arz101]

I guess I'm from a different part of the football universe, but i'd rather have a CB like Josh Norman, who leaves it all out on the field, than a CB like Peterson who is playing for long-term goals.

Josh Norman put in one of the greatest seasons i have ever seen from a CB in every aspect of CB play in 2015. He backed it up with a very good year last year 2016 after signing the fat contract with the Redskins. Norman is a baller.

Patrick Peterson played every season better than Josh Norman IMO. There is a reason Cards defense has been between good and great irrespective of Horton, Bowles or Bettcher. It is not all PP but he is THE integral part of that reason by the way he locks up a #1 WR every game. Revis (Revis was better in his prime than PP) and PP are the best time tested corners of the past 15 years bar none.

 

[Mitch]

Yea... any player who isn't afraid to toss his body around like a heat-seeking missile, is always more fun to watch. You know ESPN loves it for their WOW videos!!
But this isn't a binary scenario, where Norman's style somehow produces significantly better results than PP's style. Again, if PP were somehow costing us games, I'd be there with you. But he's not. In fact, he is more often the reason why we are in games and why our defense routinely remains in the upper-tier of the NFL, as he literally forces teams to focus on only half the field (the field opposite of PP).
I also believe Norman will have a shorter career than PP... which, if PP can remain healthy and play at an elite level for another 7-8 years, I am 100% cool with...

http://cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/...rick-petersons-omission-from-top-101-players/

One of the reasons why I would want Josh Norman over PP, is Norman is outstanding in zone as well as man coverage. Teams these day need to be able to play both man and zone. Plus, Norman brings a toughness that is contagious.

Norman is very durable...he's only missed 4 games in the last 4 years.

 

[82CardsGrad]

http://cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/...rick-petersons-omission-from-top-101-players/

One of the reasons why I would want Josh Norman over PP, is Norman is outstanding in zone as well as man coverage. Teams these day need to be able to play both man and zone. Plus, Norman brings a toughness that is contagious.

Norman is very durable...he's only missed 4 games in the last 4 years.

Different strokes for different folks Mitch. While I certainly wouldn't turn away Norman, I simply prefer PP and believe his a superior CB...

 

[Finito]

http://cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/...rick-petersons-omission-from-top-101-players/

One of the reasons why I would want Josh Norman over PP, is Norman is outstanding in zone as well as man coverage. Teams these day need to be able to play both man and zone. Plus, Norman brings a toughness that is contagious.

Norman is very durable...he's only missed 4 games in the last 4 years.

An article from 2016

Drop it already

 

[cardncubfan]

How many games has PP missed & how much would it impact the D if he did?

 

[DVontel]

http://cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/...rick-petersons-omission-from-top-101-players/

One of the reasons why I would want Josh Norman over PP, is Norman is outstanding in zone as well as man coverage. Teams these day need to be able to play both man and zone. Plus, Norman brings a toughness that is contagious.

Norman is very durable...he's only missed 4 games in the last 4 years.

Idk, I remember Adam Thielen & Stefon Diggs having their way with Norman this year when the Skins & Vikings played each other this year. Keenan Allen also burnt him pretty bad last week, too. Norman has been pretty pedestrian this year in man coverage. Now if you’re talking 2015-2016 Norman, then sure.

 

[TRW]

Thank you, TRW. I think it is good that we can write about what we feel and what we sense. It always helps to hear other people's perspectives.

Man, as I am getting older, the less patient I am. Being a fan of the Cardinals is like a yearly twisting of a Rubik's Cube. Just twisting and turning and hoping that all the colors somehow magically align.

I enjoy your posts as well, You are a great fan...far more patient than I am...and I tip my cap to you.

Merry Christmas to you and your family. Wishing you---and everyone at ASFN, tidings of comfort and joy.

No problem Mitch. I have enjoyed the few years of great fun with this team, like we haven't since the Air Coryell days. My goodness, that Super Bowl run was the BEST time, me, my boys and the Cardinals. It was spectacular.

The good years with Bruce were outstanding too but it was just a "passing fancy" there for a couple but I think the league caught up with the smoke and mirrors of BA's tendencies. Plus, age caught up to the players and the staff, alas and alak

 

[daves]

We have a Ferrari. Mitch hates that it's not good in the snow, for hauling building supplies, or for pulling a stuck car out of a ditch

Sure, you could put snow tires, a winch, a hitch, and a trailer on the Ferrari... You could pull that car out of the ditch... But then the Ferrari wouldn't be very durable, and it wouldn't win any races.

Mitch likes SUVs better than Ferraris.

I'm pretty happy with our Ferrari just as it is.

...dbs

 

[WisconsinCard]

An article from 2016

Drop it already

An article that contradicts Mitch when he says he does not play the slot receiver.

"He tracks the opposition’s top threat, and unlike many corners, will follow them to the slot, and not just left to right. That level of responsibility, however, means that if Peterson isn’t 100 percent on his game, it will show up quickly"

I also believe that no pass rush doesn't help when evaluating advanced stats. It is tough to cover for 4 or 5 seconds even for Prime Time.

 

[Bert]

I'm sorry Mitch but it's just beating a dead horse at this point, not worth reading. We know that you love Bill B. and you hate BA and PP21. Its been pretty much your focus since training camp. I do enjoy your writing when there's not so much angst and clear personal bias,,, so I humbly ask that you put your talents into some new material please, and I'll start reading your stuff again.

Not a demand or an insult, just a request from a fan.

 

[TJ]

http://cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/...rick-petersons-omission-from-top-101-players/

One of the reasons why I would want Josh Norman over PP, is Norman is outstanding in zone as well as man coverage. Teams these day need to be able to play both man and zone. Plus, Norman brings a toughness that is contagious.

Norman is very durable...he's only missed 4 games in the last 4 years.

You get on Peterson about his antics, but prefer Norman, who legit picks fights with other players, has been labeled a locker room cancer and was purged from the Panther’s roster for nothing at the peak of his career.

Peterson has missed a grand total of 0 games in his seven year career and has played through hammy and quad injuries, along with unmanaged diabetes in 2014. Not too shabby for someone as weak as you tell us he is.

Knock this poo off, Mitch. You lost all credibility evaluating DBs after you tried to convince us that Trayvon Williams was a better CB than Peterson.

 

[Dude]

Peterson is like my Corvette he lacks some like no spare but who cares.

 

[Mitch]

I'm sorry Mitch but it's just beating a dead horse at this point, not worth reading. We know that you love Bill B. and you hate BA and PP21. Its been pretty much your focus since training camp. I do enjoy your writing when there's not so much angst and clear personal bias,,, so I humbly ask that you put your talents into some new material please, and I'll start reading your stuff again.

Not a demand or an insult, just a request from a fan.

Hate is a pretty strong word, Bert. Just because I have issues with some of things BA and PP do, it doesn't mean I hate them. I pay homage to the things they do well. But it is hard to watch the Cardinals lose games because of repeated mistakes and squandered opportunities, some of which reflect on the areas that are of concern. My constant hope is that BA, PP and the whole team learn from their mistakes---but week after week it's more of the same soft and monotonous approach.

I wrote this thread because I am going to leave it all right here. You won't see me pile on Peterson anymore.

BTW---saying "not worth reading" is an insult. If its not worth reading---by all means move on to the other threads. You don't have to insult me further.