Finally, the truth revealed about last years draft!

[Lex]

What I vividly remember on draft day last year, was Pasch and Mistler, at the draft party telling us what a great idea it was for us to trade down, because we needed MORE players. They work for the team.

Then, after our 17-18 picks were announced, Graves stating "we had Suggs rated as the 16th best player in this draft." I got the impression if we had traded down to the 21st pick, then Graves would have had Suggs rated #20. That's why I said the Cardinals put more effort into who they DON'T want, than they put into who they DO want.

This idea that the Cardinals determine what a player is "worth," is ridiculous. The market decides what a player is worth. If the Cardinals would stop trying to set values on player "worth," and concentrate on WHO the best player is when they pick, they wouldn't need to worry about early draft pick costs because they wouldn't have early draft picks any more.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ-

We paid the 18th pick a million and a half more than the 17th pick?

Those numbers for Johnson and Pace make me want to toss my cookies.

This coming year is huge for those two guys.

Lex, remember that they basically wanted to split the remaining rookie money, Bryant Johnson's agent balked apparently wanting more since he went first(guess we don't really know), so Graves signed Pace. Then we saw John Clayton predicting a LONG holdout for Johnson, who signed the next day.

The deal is somewhat confusing but as I look at BJ's numbers basically they made up the difference with the one time only guaranteed incentive bonus of 1.7 million that Johnson gets. ESPN didn't specify what year that is but that puts his total bonus about 200K higher than Calvin's and the total deals basically then come out even. Johnson's deal has escalators, Pace's doesn't. Both guys have option bonuses that if picked up, salaries come down in exchange for the money in a bonus. What I would love to know is DID the Cards pick up the bonuses on both guys because the contracts imply it was a club option not something triggered on playing time or something. I'd bet we will or already have.

So in reality Johnson winds up getting just about the same total money but he got less up front because he gambled and lost by not signing on time.

 

[Ottawa Card]

Mike Jurecki reported on KDUS this morning that after talking to a couple of unnamed former coaches on Mac's staff he was told that the Cardinal coaches wanted to draft Suggs last year but either Graves or Bidwill were afraid that they would not be able to sign him quickly and did not want to deal with the negative pub about the "local star holding out."

They traded down to get two guys that they knew they would be able to sign. Is this any way to run a franchise?

This is why the Cards don't want to take a QB with a very high first round pick, it will cost them to much money.

New Coach, but the same old Cards, and the same old owner. So much money for free agency with so little spent. They lett Rudd and the LB go because they were too cheap and unwilling to shell out a few bucks to shore up a woefully weak and thin LB group.

"Unnamed sources" - Yeah, that's credible

 

[Kolo]

Just wondering what everybody thought we should do last year after the trade was made. I don't follow the draft too much, but I actually thought B. Johnson might be a pick, and I wanted 18 to be DT William Joseph. I think he had a pretty mediocre year w/ NYG, but not sure.

Also, as you can see I'm new to posting, although I've started reading the board more and more.

Hi everybody.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It always cracks me up how a bunch of guys who have never even been to the Cardinals training facility, spoken to the coaches or the players, or have any status within the Cardinal organization doubt someone that does.

Jurecki has all those credentials and he has the trust of the players and coaches because he doesn't name names. The moment he did no one would tell him crap.

We know that the Cardinals have issues with large amounts of up front money. This does make sense.

 

[ajcardfan]

We know that the Cardinals have issues with large amounts of up front money. This does make sense.

According to the numbers below, the Cards will pay Pace/Johnson about 2.5 mil less the first two years than Sullivan. The thing is though, we paid out the wazoo for Davis upfront. I think Suggs' legal scrape scared the Bidwills off more than the money.

Two things about these figures. One, Pace is going to bank 1.5mil more in two seasons than Johnson. That is amazing. But, I'm not sure when that third bonus of Johnson's kicks in. If he gets it, then he will move ahead of Pace. Second, those deals are still great to look at. The Cards finally moved into the modern era of draft pick signing with those two deals.

1a. WR Bryant Johnson, Penn State (No. 17 overall): Signing bonus: $1,850,000. Base salaries: $595,000 (2003); $743,750 (2004, plus $1,755,000 option bonus); $892,500 (2005); $1,041,250 (2006); $751,250 (2007, plus escalators). Note: If team exercises option bonus, base salaries reduced to $305,000 (2004); $543,750 (2005); $620,500. There is also a one-time guaranteed incentive bonus, based on playing time, of $1,700,000. Total: five years, $6,420,500. Cap charge: $965,000.

1b. DE Calvin Pace, Wake Forest (No. 18 overall): Signing bonus: $3,000,000. Base salaries: $675,000 (2003); $843,800 (2004, plus $2,100,000 option bonus); $1,012,500 (2005); $1,181,300 (2006); $811,250 (2007). Note: If teams exercises option bonus, base salaries reduced to $305,000 (2004); $473,750 (2005); $642,500 (2006). Total: five years, $8,007,500. Cap charge: $1,275,000.

DT Jonathan Sullivan, Georgia (No. 6 overall): Signing bonus: $7,400,000. Base salaries: $849,000 (2003); $1,061,300 (2004, plus $4,000,000 option bonus); $1,273,500 (2005); $1,485,750 (2006); $1,698,000 (2007, includes escalators); $1,243,580 (2008, voidable); $1,455,830 (2009, voidable). Notes: If teams exercises option bonus, base salaries reduced to $305,000 (2004); $380,000 (2005); $542,000 (2006); $736,500 (2007); $931,000 (2008). Total: seven years, $16,599,330 or, if voided, five years, $14,212,500. Cap charge: $1,906,140.

 

[Ottawa Card]

It always cracks me up how a bunch of guys who have never even been to the Cardinals training facility, spoken to the coaches or the players, or have any status within the Cardinal organization doubt someone that does.

Jurecki has all those credentials and he has the trust of the players and coaches because he doesn't name names. The moment he did no one would tell him crap.

We know that the Cardinals have issues with large amounts of up front money. This does make sense.

Good points... but, one can also be a prisoner of one's source. Because of the so-called "trust" - anonymity is used to forward personal agendas.

Would it be so far-fetched that former coaches who may be still looking for jobs, might have an axe to grind?

And believe me... you don't have to hang around a sports complex to see these games played.

 

[Skkorpion]

Just wondering what everybody thought we should do last year after the trade was made. I don't follow the draft too much, but I actually thought B. Johnson might be a pick, and I wanted 18 to be DT William Joseph. I think he had a pretty mediocre year w/ NYG, but not sure.

Also, as you can see I'm new to posting, although I've started reading the board more and more.

Hi everybody.

Welcome. Didn't Joseph go just before we picked?

 

[RLakin]

It always cracks me up how a bunch of guys who have never even been to the Cardinals training facility, spoken to the coaches or the players, or have any status within the Cardinal organization doubt someone that does.

Jurecki has all those credentials and he has the trust of the players and coaches because he doesn't name names. The moment he did no one would tell him crap.

We know that the Cardinals have issues with large amounts of up front money. This does make sense.

I agree. This was my first reaction to the draft, as everyone was talking "signability" in regards to those strange picks. Afterwards, it seemed as if it was just a really bad draft trade not motivated by money, rather the result of incompetence, but I always had suspicions given the track record of organization in regards to signing top 10 picks, coupled with the fact that both Johnson and especially Pace looked to be fairly "signable." To the Cardinals credit they did sign those players, but their new coach does not seem to be a fan of that particular draft strategy. I have no doubts that scenario Jurecki presented is very plausible, but the credibility of the source (the ex-coach) can be compromised when people have axes to grind. Particularly when it involves their profession. I guess then this would be one of those rare instances when I will defer to the future. That is, should the Cardinals struggle to meet the demands of a top 10 pick this August we'll have our answer. If not, then I think last years bad draft trade should be referred to as just that.

 

[CardShark]

Do any of you remember Macs face when he came out of to talk about the Cards first 2 picks? He was shell shocked! He basically said he didn't know too much about these guys. I truly believe that Jurecki's source is accurate. The coaches didn't make those picks. They didn't make the trade. They wanted Suggs. Ever since it happened, Cards fans have wondered what the reason was. No that we are told, all the ones with blinders on want to attack it. It was the same after free agency, there were questions of what happened. All the fans with blinders said, be positve 'cuz we're going to the playoffs baby. Looking back, who was right. All of the offseason was mismanaged last year. Hell, Graves even admitted it. Mac will never discuss this as he feels a sense of loyalty to the Cards for giving him his first headcoaching job. He towed the company line all the way and stills bears the brunt of it. I hope Green is still a coach unafraid to speak his mind even if it clashes with the company stance. It's the only way they'll ever develop into a contender.

 

[azdad1978]

Do any of you remember Macs face when he came out of to talk about the Cards first 2 picks? He was shell shocked! He basically said he didn't know too much about these guys. I truly believe that Jurecki's source is accurate. The coaches didn't make those picks. They didn't make the trade. They wanted Suggs. Ever since it happened, Cards fans have wondered what the reason was. No that we are told, all the ones with blinders on want to attack it. It was the same after free agency, there were questions of what happened. All the fans with blinders said, be positve 'cuz we're going to the playoffs baby. Looking back, who was right. All of the offseason was mismanaged last year. Hell, Graves even admitted it. Mac will never discuss this as he feels a sense of loyalty to the Cards for giving him his first headcoaching job. He towed the company line all the way and stills bears the brunt of it. I hope Green is still a coach unafraid to speak his mind even if it clashes with the company stance. It's the only way they'll ever develop into a contender.

Mac looks embarassed when he came out of the war room. But what can he do? The owner's son made the choice and pull the trigger. That's why the cards should leave the football side to football people and not meddle around. Hey Bill let the "real" football personnel do their jobs and the team will be alright.