Fire Vance Joseph?

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I'm with you there. It's nice to have a team you believe can move the ball, and not hold your breath every time the ball releases from the QB's hand.

I promise I'm not all doom and gloom! I just struggle to be really optimistic when we would all struggle to find 5 spots on this team where we wouldn't, as a collective, like to upgrade or cut a guy.

The only ones I can think that we're all happy with, and think are the future of our team, are Murray, Kirk, and Chandler Jones. Maybe Byron Murphy, but he's not there just yet. No one would be rioting if we brought back Alford from IR and let him play over Byron.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Alford was a pro bowler in Atlanta? I would have no problem with that. I want the players on the field who give us the best chance to win.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I'm with you there. It's nice to have a team you believe can move the ball, and not hold your breath every time the ball releases from the QB's hand.

I promise I'm not all doom and gloom! I just struggle to be really optimistic when we would all struggle to find 5 spots on this team where we wouldn't, as a collective, like to upgrade or cut a guy.

The only ones I can think that we're all happy with, and think are the future of our team, are Murray, Kirk, and Chandler Jones. Maybe Byron Murphy, but he's not there just yet. No one would be rioting if we brought back Alford from IR and let him play over Byron.

Happy with:
All the players you mentioned.

Want/excited to see develop:
Isabella, Butler, Cole, Cooper, K.J,
Allen, Dogbe & the Thompson Twins

 

[PACardsFan]

Last year, with a team/staff everyone pretty much unanimously didn't enjoy, we were a whopping 10 points combined from being 7-9. That's right, the Wilks team had four losses within 3 points or less. A bounce of the ball here or there. Am I saying we should have kept that staff, the QB, or whoever? No, but the argument that we could be whatever record holds no weight when we simply aren't. And I'd argue that the teams we just barely lost to, or won against, were better than the teams we've won against or won lost in a 3 pt margin now.

(2018 within 3 points or a win: 2x Seahawks, Bears, Packers, Raiders, 49ers - 36-43-1. 45% win %. Two playoff teams.)
(2019 within 3 points or a win: Lions, Bengals, Falcons, Giants, 49ers, Buccaneers - 18-36-1. 33% win percentage. Heavily skewed by the 49ers with only 1 loss. One playoff team, the others are essentially mathematically out.)

Of course I'm not saying we should fire Kingsbury this offseason unless something dramatic plays out, or we get a great GM who needs to build the team in his own image, just that after year two, unless things wildly pick up, it's on the table. We have no evidence to show the guy knows how to be a head coach - literally none of the numbers back it up.

Where are we finding a good LT in short order? Why are we drafting/signing a top notch WR after dedicating four picks in the past two drafts to the position? Those things need to be looked at closely.

With your ability to spin the facts, you really should have been in politics. And maybe you are? You're looking at games last year when we lost by a margin of 3 points or less. Why don't you look at the 2018 games where the margin was more than 3 points. In those games, we were outscored 289-83. That's an average score of 32-9. You can say all you want about how close last year's team was to 7-9, but the truth of the matter is that we were much closer to 0-16 than we were to 7-9. Our wins against SF were a gift, because they were the MOST injury crippled team in the NFL last year. And, we were still luck to win both of those games. The Packers were doing EVERYTHING they could to get McCarthy fired, and it still took the Packers secondary dropping 3 sure interceptions on our game winning FG drive for us to win.

 

[PACardsFan]

I've been saying it for a while now. SK is the best bud of MB & has a very long leash. MB listens to every word SK has to say as to the direction of this football team. Just watch videos of the two of them in the war room at draft time & you will see. MB just listens & doesn't disagree with anything SK says. Agrees with everything he says in the press conferences as well. SK has a long leash & as you said, unless SK does something totally asinine (another DUI) he will be the GM here as long as he wants?

I agree with almost everything you said, but I don't agree that barring something asinine, SK will be here as long as he wants. They are showing dramatic improvement from last year & they need to steadily improve into the future. And I think they will keep improving. MB won't care about the W-L record this year, but the obvious improvement on the field will need to manifest itself in W's as we move into 2020 & 2021 if Keim wants to prolong his stay in the desert.

 

[Solar7]

With your ability to spin the facts, you really should have been in politics. And maybe you are? You're looking at games last year when we lost by a margin of 3 points or less. Why don't you look at the 2018 games where the margin was more than 3 points. In those games, we were outscored 289-83. That's an average score of 32-9. You can say all you want about how close last year's team was to 7-9, but the truth of the matter is that we were much closer to 0-16 than we were to 7-9. Our wins against SF were a gift, because they were the MOST injury crippled team in the NFL last year. And, we were still luck to win both of those games. The Packers were doing EVERYTHING they could to get McCarthy fired, and it still took the Packers secondary dropping 3 sure interceptions on our game winning FG drive for us to win.

You're missing my point. All I was saying is that @Cardsfaninlouky was saying that we're a few missed opportunities from being 7-3, but the fact of the matter is that we are what our record is, 3-6-1. It's spin to say we're almost a winning team when you could have functionally said the exact same thing last year when you were awful.

And we're not beating anyone of note. The overall point is that we have gone from a historically abysmal team to just a regularly abysmal team. We're still in the basement of the league, and having a barely middle of the pack offense doesn't change that.

 

[AZCB34]

I agree also PA. Success is double edge sword.

Also, IMHO, a sober SK can get it done. But that begs the question...

Do you want to know the answer to that question? Or would you feel better blissfully unaware?

 

[CardinalMan]

I have not posted here in a long time because of the nature of some of the posts (just fire Keim, VJ etc.). But this thread impressed me with the thoughtful replies. We did a good job on the offensive side of the ball (BA was also impressed and said so). Give VJ and SK one more year and add to the defensive side of the ball. If that doesn't work out consider some changes.

 

[football karma]

almost regardless of record at this point, Keim stays at least one more season.


like it or not, its looking like he got the single biggest decision of the offseason correct:

Taking Murray #1,
moving on from Rosen (and ignoring sunk cost) and getting what looks like a decent asset for him in Isabella. Even if Isabella turns out to be a bust, its still the right move.


Had he gone "safe", conventional wisdom would have Coach Adam Gase and Josh Rosen likely putting up better but uninspiring numbers at this point, the Cards at 1-9 and us all talking about starting over with Tua or Joe Burrow.

I get he is (partially) fixing a mess he created, but its a mess that wasn't going to be fixed in one offseason.

But I think MB sees enough to stay the course for another year.

 

[JeffGollin]

I logged on fully expecting that there would be robust "who should we fire today" posts. I wasn't disappointed.

That said - There are lots of reasons why teams don't perform to standard and coaching is one of them. And, within the ins and outs of coaching are play calling, offensive/defensive scheming, motivation and player development.

Which areas do various Cardinal coaches excel or fall short in? Hard to say (Card staff is very adept at keeping internal criticism inside the walls of its Hq.).

If there's anyone on this board who's close to the Cardinal staff and can clue us in on what the team is doing behind the scenes, whether coaching techniques, conditioning approaches, styles or philosophies compare well to those of other NFL regimes, it would be much appreciated.

For example, there were post-TB comments by K1 and (I think one of the Johnson twins) that we weren't up to speed on clock management on one key play and were confused about coverage assignments on another. Those comments raise a red flag, but how do you turn the Cards into a smarter team?

Better coaching? Smarter players? New people? Improved existing staff? Beats me. I think the answers might be found behind the scenes. Anyone know what's really going on and how it can be realistically fixed?

PS - I'm still not sure why or how we let BA get away and suspect there's a back story yet to be told.

 

[Harry]

I, too, am not sure they’ll fire SK, but they should. A GM with his tenure IMO has no business leaving any coach with a roster this weak, especially a new coach.

 

[gimpy]

Jeff asked, "but how do you turn the Cards into a smarter team?".

The answer?.....
Just come to this board and ask.

 

[overseascardfan]

I, too, am not sure they’ll fire SK, but they should. A GM with his tenure IMO has no business leaving any coach with a roster this weak, especially a new coach.

Why can't they replace him with Terry McDonough? Internal replacement so he can keep system in place but I feel a new personnel shot caller is needed, Keim seems to set in his ways which isn't working.

 

[ARZCardinals]

The D is getting better...and every time you get a new DC the team has a huge learning curve.

I'd rather keep VJ at this point.

At the beginning of the season he looked like a guy jaded to be DC rather than HC....not any more. He now looks 'all in' on being the best DC he can

He's got a dang good scheme, but needs a few more horses to make it better...I believe he can do it.

 

[Mainstreet]

While watching games I fire Vance Joseph. That's probably why it should be reviewed with calm eyes.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Do you want to know the answer to that question? Or would you feel better blissfully unaware?

I'd love to know if Stevie is still hitting the sauce.

It would break my heart if he was still getting wasted, but I'd rather the team have the benefit of that information.

Wouldn't Mike B be on the lookout for Steve's drinking? Do you think that Bidwill makes/made Keim do some time of rehab, and continues to monitor his sobriety?

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

You're missing my point. All I was saying is that @Cardsfaninlouky was saying that we're a few missed opportunities from being 7-3, but the fact of the matter is that we are what our record is, 3-6-1. It's spin to say we're almost a winning team when you could have functionally said the exact same thing last year when you were awful.

And we're not beating anyone of note. The overall point is that we have gone from a historically abysmal team to just a regularly abysmal team. We're still in the basement of the league, and having a barely middle of the pack offense doesn't change that.

Maybe a slight notch above middle of the pack offense. This offense gives me hope. With what it is capable of doing now, one can only imagine the possibilities after some key pieces are added? As far as the record thing, one could play the what if game about any team during any season. What if the Giants WR doesn't catch that ball off the Patriots DBs helmet? Undefeated season. Sure, we could've won a few more games last season had some missed opportunities went our way, but that team had no ceiling. This season........yes, our record says we're 3-6-1 & that's a fact, yet back to the missed opportunities. Had a few of them gone our way we would most definitely be 7-3, anyone that tries to dispute that isn't seeing how close this team is this season & all that with holes all over this team. The "Shehawks" for example, I can think of at least 3 games (Bengals, Buccaneers & 49ers) had a few things not went their way in those games, they could easily be 5-5 right now, & they are a good team. The fact is, on any given year with any given team, missed opportunities can change the whole outcome of a season & make your record look worse than what the team really is.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I agree with almost everything you said, but I don't agree that barring something asinine, SK will be here as long as he wants. They are showing dramatic improvement from last year & they need to steadily improve into the future. And I think they will keep improving. MB won't care about the W-L record this year, but the obvious improvement on the field will need to manifest itself in W's as we move into 2020 & 2021 if Keim wants to prolong his stay in the desert.

I understand your point. However, I still believe MB leans on & trusts everything SK says & does, his actions & words on video shows this. As long as SK doesn't do anything stupid & the team is showing improvement & around .500 I think MB will keep trusting SK's moves. He'll have a way of convincing him that if this went this way or we can get this to go that way..............? MB will believe him. The buddy system goes a long way. That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it lol.