First round pick for Roethlisberger...would you?

[cardncubfan]

The next person who uses the term "*****" or anything similar to describe a woman who has accused a man of rape can expect a very long-term ban from this site.

And, no to Ben. Not because he is a scumbag IMHO, but because he is on the downward end of his career.

 

[LaidBackPhil]

F you. Rothlisberger is no Warner. I don't have a "losers attitude" because I hold that opinion.

Other mods.... feel free to ban me.

Good point, Roethlisberger has two Lombardis and Warner has one. Roethlisberger has about 7 more seasons to get more Lombardis and Kurt has none.

Most of the rookie QBs that everyone is drooling over will be busts.

BTW, I doubt that Warner would condemn Roethlisberger the way some admittedly ignorant posters would here.

About potty mouth, I forgive you.

Carry on.

 

[TJ]

Good point, Roethlisberger has two Lombardis and Warner has one. Roethlisberger has about 7 more seasons to get more Lombardis and Kurt has none.

Most of the rookie QBs that everyone is drooling over will be busts.

BTW, I doubt that Warner would condemn Roethlisberger the way some admittedly ignorant posters would here.

About potty mouth, I forgive you.

Carry on.

Guess if you had elite defenses to lean on, it'd be easy to get to three SBs and win two. A luxury only Ben has had. Now that his defense is leaking oil, so is his team. The Steelers live and die by the defense.

Kurt Warner took two historically downtrodden franchises to the Superbowl with average-to-terrible defenses.

Not sure how you can assert that Ben is better than Warner with a straight face, unless you're a jaded Steelers fan suffering from depression after watching this train-wreck unfold.

And feel free to stop calling posters, "ignorant" for having viewpoints different from your own. You have 10 posts and at least 5 of which have been personal attacks on other posters. I think you're the one who needs to watch the "potty mouth."

 

[GatorAZ]

Guess if you had elite defenses to lean on, it'd be easy to get to three SBs and win two. A luxury only Ben has had. Now that his defense is leaking oil, so is his team. The Steelers live and die by the defense.

Kurt Warner took two historically downtrodden franchises to the Superbowl with average-to-terrible defenses.

Not sure how you can assert that Ben is better than Warner with a straight face, unless you're a jaded Steelers fan suffering from depression after watching this train-wreck unfold.

And feel free to stop calling posters, "ignorant" for having viewpoints different from your own. You have 10 posts and at least 5 of which have been personal attacks on other posters. I think you're the one who needs to watch the "potty mouth."

That poster is definitely trippin' (as the kids say) but what do Big Ben's defenses have to do with his offensive production? As we unfortunately know he's probably the best QB in history along with Elway at making plays when the OL breaks down.

Also Ben has a career YPA of 7.9 which is tied for 6th all time with Kurt Warner and that's in the horribly weathered north. That has nothing to do with defense right?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I'd take BR on this team in a minute. He's not going anywhere though. I wouldn't want to, but I'd give a 1st round pick for him. Just because the Cardinals could draft a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he'd be any good. I mean, would you really rather go into the next 4 season hoping a guy like Zack Mettenberger works out, or with Ben manning the QB position?

 

[cardpa]

I think LaidbackPhil is really a closet Steeler fan who is hoping to jettison Ben in hopes of drafting a new QB.

 

[PACardsFan]

32 is young in today's NFL, where QB's can't be touched. Big Ben will play until & be effective until he's 40. The new rules have almost guaranteed that successful QB's will be around for a long, long time. If Palmer could slow down on the interceptions, he could also be around for another 8 years.

All this being said, the Steelers will fire Tomlin long before they would let Ben go elsewhere. I'm a Manziel fan, because I like cocky, arrogant QB's. I just love watching the kid play. Does his game translate to the NFL? Maybe, maybe not, but I would still love to see this kid with a bird on his helmet!!

 

[LaidBackPhil]

Guess if you had elite defenses to lean on, it'd be easy to get to three SBs and win two. A luxury only Ben has had. Now that his defense is leaking oil, so is his team. The Steelers live and die by the defense.

Kurt Warner took two historically downtrodden franchises to the Superbowl with average-to-terrible defenses.

Not sure how you can assert that Ben is better than Warner with a straight face, unless you're a jaded Steelers fan suffering from depression after watching this train-wreck unfold.

And feel free to stop calling posters, "ignorant" for having viewpoints different from your own. You have 10 posts and at least 5 of which have been personal attacks on other posters. I think you're the one who needs to watch the "potty mouth."

Okay I'll play. From digging into it and havin so many Card Steeler connections over the year it seems that about the only resources throw at the offense as Roetlisberger. Bad O line, bad 2nd and third receivers. No top draft choice running backs other than fumbles Mendenhall and Heath Miller. He didn't have anyone approaching Larry Fitz and Boldin to bail him out. So its all speculation about what would happen if he was surrounded by a high octane offense and an average defense.

As for ignorant my only comment had to people accusing him of rape when those is question were as questionable as the formerly drunken young punk who is now a dedicated family man. Remember he was never charged and all events happened after midnight and/or a drunken stupor and as the saying goes: "nothing good happens after midnight". Adults over 30 know better. I can't say most young people today are much better. See Miley Twerky. It's almost a miracle that the get through that phase today.

 

[LaidBackPhil]

I think LaidbackPhil is really a closet Steeler fan who is hoping to jettison Ben in hopes of drafting a new QB.

Accused but uncharged? I guess this makes me the evil Roethlisberger of the thread!

 

[LaidBackPhil]

I'd take BR on this team in a minute. He's not going anywhere though. I wouldn't want to, but I'd give a 1st round pick for him. Just because the Cardinals could draft a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he'd be any good. I mean, would you really rather go into the next 4 season hoping a guy like Zack Mettenberger works out, or with Ben manning the QB position?

Exactly, he isn't coming here but he couldn't be had for a #1. Maybe a #1 and #3 in '14 and a #2 in '15. I'd take it of it would happen.

 

[TJ]

Okay I'll play. From digging into it and havin so many Card Steeler connections over the year it seems that about the only resources throw at the offense as Roetlisberger. Bad O line, bad 2nd and third receivers. No top draft choice running backs other than fumbles Mendenhall and Heath Miller. He didn't have anyone approaching Larry Fitz and Boldin to bail him out. So its all speculation about what would happen if he was surrounded by a high octane offense and an average defense.

As for ignorant my only comment had to people accusing him of rape when those is question were as questionable as the formerly drunken young punk who is now a dedicated family man. Remember he was never charged and all events happened after midnight and/or a drunken stupor and as the saying goes: "nothing good happens after midnight". Adults over 30 know better. I can't say most young people today are much better. See Miley Twerky. It's almost a miracle that the get through that phase today.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion, flawed or otherwise, but if you had watched the two when Kurt was still in the league, he was certainly the better pure passer, better at reading defenses, calling his own plays, and a better overall team leader.

I can't believe I had to explain this as this is common knowledge to anyone who's watched both QBs play.

 

[Bodha]

This is a solid thread for gauging which posters to never acknowledge ever again




those who said Yes

 

[GatorAZ]

Can't really compare the two. Kurt had ridiculous talent around him and played indoors. Ben has to run around with defenders on his back throwing to average to above-average talent. Yet still has the same YPA and a lower INT%.

Marshall Faulk
Orlando Pace
Isaac Bruce
Torrey Holt
Larry Fitzgerald
Anquan Boldin

Hines Ward
Plaxico Burress
Santonio Holmes
Heath Miller
Antonio Brown

It's pretty shocking when you look at the numbers how similar they are given the weapons and elements.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This is a solid thread for gauging which posters to never acknowledge ever again




those who said Yes are the one that know what they're talking about

I'm sure this is what you meant.

 

[Mitch]

Big Ben has gone stale in Pittsburgh, imo. I would be very curious to see how revitalized he would become back in BA's system.

It should be very interesting to see the direction the Steelers take this off-season. Traditionally, they are loath to fire their head coaches...however, with what looks to be a top 10 pick in the draft, I could see the Steelers clean house.

The question then will be would the newly hired HC want Big Ben or want to start fresh with a rookie QB?

The price for Big Ben on the market won't be a 1st round pick---not at his age, his salary and his wear and tear.

If BA wants him---my guess is a 3rd or 4th rounder gets it done.

My guess is too---that BA would want him. There's a trust factor that BA and BR have in each other. Plus, BA wants to win now and with the Cardinals' defense and STs he knows that with a top ten offense, the team has a chance to hoist the trophy.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think the entire prospect of trading for Roethlisberger is a bad decision. I'm not in love of, once again, giving up assets, cap space, and potential to get a 32-year-old QB with an injury history and behavioral mishaps.

Here are some reasons why I think it's a bad idea, all around:

1. Cap ramifications - over the next two years, BR is owed $23.7 mil. In addition to which, you'd end up having to cut Palmer in 2014, which would cost $6 mil in dead money. That's nearly $30 mil in cap space just to bring him in. We are still going to be paying Kolb, Levi, et al in 2014. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I know all of the dead money would be suffocating.

2. Age - 32-years-old at the beginning of 2014. Which parlays into my next next point

3. Damaged goods/hits - BR has had a myriad of injuries throughout his career, which include but are not limited to: concussions, knee, shoulder, ribs, thumb, ankle, etc. He's a tough SOB, but eventually, the beatings will take its toll. Whether or not he plays for the Steelers for the duration of his career, I can't see him playing effectively beyond 36, IMHO. Furthermore, in his 9 1/2 year career, he's taken 376 sacks. This does not take into consideration the QB hits he's sustained. To put this in perspective, in Peyton Manning's 14 year career, he's only taken 265 sacks.

4. Rinse, lather, repeat - The Cardinals have been down this road before--the prospect of picking up, yet, another retread. Guess what? This is a team that has a history of attempting to fix the QB problem with duct tape. Think of some of the other retreads we've picked up over the years: Blake, Anderson, Kolb, Palmer, etc. How has that worked out? Ohh yeah, I'm familiar with the success Warner had, but those opportunities happen few and far between. Look at the landscape of successful QBs in the NFL. How many are retreads versus playing for their original team?

5. Regardless, you will not be happy with the assets we'd have to part with - if some the rumors are true, BR was shopped last offseason, but had no takers because the asking price was way too high. If he is shopped again, I would expect the asking price to be a little lower, but not by much; probably some conditional picks based on playing time.

6. We'd virtually miss out on the opportunity to take a stellar QB in the QB-rich 2014 draft - parting with any assets would hurt our chances of taking advantage of this illustrious opportunity. Even if we didn't give up a first-rounder for BR, we'd still be giving up at least a second. It's fair to say that BR would not the long-term answer, especially if he's only signed for two more seasons and giving a QB with an injury history an extension at 34 would not be prudent. Seeing as we're going to finish in the 15-21 spot in the draft, it might take trading up in the draft to get one of these QBs. Not having that second or third round pick might impede upon that. I'd rather groom said youngster and {gulp} keep Palmer for one more season than possibly mortgaging the future for another retread.

7. Character issues - many haven't forgiven him for the rape allegations and off-the-field reckless behavior. He's had two rape allegations, and got out of one of them on a technicality. Not the guy I'd want to tab as the face of this franchise, which prides itself on employing high-character individuals.

8. I doubt he's gonna be made available, anyway - Simply put, I don't see it happening. It's more than likely that they draft a QB in 2014 with their #1 or #2, have BR play one more year, and cut bait in 2015, when the dead money hit would only be $5.8 mil.

In summary--stand pat and pick up one of the promising guys in the first round next season so we don't have this conversation again for another 8-12 years. Stop gaps are not the answer, anymore.

Pretty compelling case to not do the deal. Well done sir.

 

[Duckjake]

I'd take BR on this team in a minute. He's not going anywhere though. I wouldn't want to, but I'd give a 1st round pick for him. Just because the Cardinals could draft a QB in round 1 doesn't mean he'd be any good. I mean, would you really rather go into the next 4 season hoping a guy like Zack Mettenberger works out, or with Ben manning the QB position?

What we need to do is draft a QB in the first round to go with our aging veteran. Then the first round QB can sit on the bench for 3 years and then wash out of the NFL while our free agent QB takes us to the SB.

 

[daves]

Traditionally, they are loathe to fire their head coaches...

:BIM: Loath.

...dave

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The problem, per a source with knowledge of the contract, is that Roethlisberger’s cap number approaches $19 million in 2014. Specifically, it’s $18.895 million.

The extra $6.795 million comes from three (yes, three) prior restructurings that entailed converting base salary to guaranteed payments in order to create cap space.

Link.