Fitz Gonzoooooo

[82CardsGrad]

I think that people are overestimating the importance of winning to Larry Fitzgerald. He'd rather win than not, but he'd prefer to put up an 1100 yard, 12 TD season and earn $15M than win a Super Bowl making $8M and getting 900 yards, methinks.

Where do you come up with this? What has Larry done or said that would indicate he values money over winning a Championship?
I think we're about to gain much more clarity about this over the next few weeks... But up to this point, unless you are hanging with Fitz and he's confided in you things that would confirm you take on him, I just can't see how you would come to this characterization...

 

[kerouac9]

Where do you come up with this? What has Larry done or said that would indicate he values money over winning a Championship?
I think we're about to gain much more clarity about this over the next few weeks... But up to this point, unless you are hanging with Fitz and he's confided in you things that would confirm you take on him, I just can't see how you would come to this characterization...

We've already gone over this--the last two massive contract extensions with the Cards have come after average or disasterous seasons from a winning perspective. He chose to take enormous sums of money from the Cards over playing out his deal and going to a more competitive team.

He could've given back money last year and instead took an enormous payday that made the Cards less competitive in the marketplace going forward.

What evidence do you have that Fitz is willing to make the hard choices for the benefit of the team instead of his pocketbook?

And I don't have a problem with this. Fitz is like most athletes who understand that they have a limited window to maximize their income opportunities. It's a business decision, and Fitz has managed to let his representatives be the bad guys while he goes on vacation for 4 months every January.

What Fitz actions tell you he cares about:

1) Getting paid what he's scheduled to make or more
2) Getting 1000+ yards and 10 TDs every year
3) The success of the team around him.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think that people are overestimating the importance of winning to Larry Fitzgerald. He'd rather win than not, but he'd prefer to put up an 1100 yard, 12 TD season and earn $15M than win a Super Bowl making $8M and getting 900 yards, methinks.

Well, we are going to find out the answer to that riddle sooner rather than later aren't we.

And if Fitzgerald prefers the former to the latter, then I say good luck to him in his future endeavors

 

[MadCardDisease]

I find it harder and harder to believe that Fitz will be back. For the Cardinals to keep him, Fitz will have to take a MASSIVE pay cut. Fitz still believes he is a #1 WR and clearly the Cardinals don't agree with that. There in lies the problem.

Knowing how Eugene Parker works, I can't see him advising Fitz to take less money than could be had on the open market. Some team will pay Fitz top dollar(much more than the Cardinals) and Parker knows that. In the end it's a business and probably the best option for both parties is for the Cards to cut ties with Fitz and move on.

It's time to exercize the ghost of Rod Graves once and for all! That contract must go! That means Larry is as good as gone already.

 

[kerouac9]

I find it harder and harder to believe that Fitz will be back. For the Cardinals to keep him, Fitz will have to take a MASSIVE pay cut. Fitz still believes he is a #1 WR and clearly the Cardinals don't agree with that. There in lies the problem.

Knowing how Eugene Parker works, I can't see him advising Fitz to take less money than could be had on the open market. Some team will pay Fitz top dollar(much more than the Cardinals) and Parker knows that. In the end it's a business and probably the best option for both parties is for the Cards to cut ties with Fitz and move on.

It's time to exercize the ghost of Rod Graves once and for all! That contract must go! That means Larry is as good as gone already.

"Exorcize" :BIM:

I think that Daryl Washington's contract is the last dumb deal from the Graves era that the Cards are going to have to deal with. Campbell has big base salaries the next two years, but it's hard to see the Cards wanting to cut him loose right now.

 

[MadCardDisease]

"Exorcize" :BIM:

I think that Daryl Washington's contract is the last dumb deal from the Graves era that the Cards are going to have to deal with. Campbell has big base salaries the next two years, but it's hard to see the Cards wanting to cut him loose right now.

Damn I knew that spelling didn't look right.

Yeah I forgot about Washington.

Still if the Cardinals decide to keep Washington his remaining contract isn't horrible. $7M a year for an elite LB is servicable. He just needs to keep his nose clean if that is possible. I think the Cardinals keep him.

Campbell's contract is about what you would expect for a player of his caliber. It's a little pricey these next couple of years but he is an elite player in his prime so it's what you would expect. Keim could always extend him and lower that number some but then we are again playing kick the can down the road with another Graves contract.

Man will we ever get awat from the specter of Rod Graves!

 

[cardpa]

Faulty premise. Fitz has a prospective cap number of $24M for the Cards, but he's only facing $16M in salary and bonus in 2013; he's already pocketed the balance.
Would Fitz be able to get $12-16M in total salary and bonus from a playoff-caliber team like the Panthers if he's released? I think so. He'd also become immediately the focal point of their passing game and the most reliable receiver on the roster.

The Panthers are slated to have more than $15M in cap space in 2015.

Interesting side note: Ken Whisenhunt featured Fitzgerald and chose him over Anquan Boldin when the rubber met the road. The Tennessee Titans have more than $42M in pending cap space in 2015 per overthecap.

I think that people are overestimating the importance of winning to Larry Fitzgerald. He'd rather win than not, but he'd prefer to put up an 1100 yard, 12 TD season and earn $15M than win a Super Bowl making $8M and getting 900 yards, methinks.

K9 please explain how you come up with this number of $16M. If you look at the sites that specialize in cap numbers they show Fitz's cap hit to be $23M. Explain the discrepancies please.

 

[desertdawg]

Lmao, let's just freecycle a bunch of information and speculations that are all already out there in internet land... Nothing new, not one thing. Nice job by the OP.

 

[kerouac9]

Damn I knew that spelling didn't look right.

Yeah I forgot about Washington.

Still if the Cardinals decide to keep Washington his remaining contract isn't horrible. $7M a year for an elite LB is servicable. He just needs to keep his nose clean if that is possible. I think the Cardinals keep him.

Campbell's contract is about what you would expect for a player of his caliber. It's a little pricey these next couple of years but he is an elite player in his prime so it's what you would expect. Keim could always extend him and lower that number some but then we are again playing kick the can down the road with another Graves contract.

Man will we ever get awat from the specter of Rod Graves!

Yeah, I'm not worried about Campbell's contract. I think that his, Peterson's, and Washington's are all reasonable--as long as you don't want to get out of them. Campbell would have an $11M cap hit if he were released in 2015--there was just a lot of guaranteed money out there.

Much of the NFL has moved in the direction of guaranteeing more salaries in the first couple of years of the deal so guys have more trade value without damaging your cap. That puts the Bears in a pickle with Jay Cutler--who they can't release but can trade--but I like the idea of guaranteeing the first 3 years of a deal in its entirety. That's what we basically did with Veldheer. We can get out of that deal in 2016 without breaking a sweat.

 

[kerouac9]

K9 please explain how you come up with this number of $16M. If you look at the sites that specialize in cap numbers they show Fitz's cap hit to be $23M. Explain the discrepancies please.

Cap number is basically three numbers: Salary + prorated past bonuses + current bonuses.

The $16M that Fitzgerald is scheduled to make is an $8M roster bonus due near the beginning of the league year, and $8M in salary paid out in 17 weekly installments during the season.

The Cards also have to account for an additional approx. $7M in pro-rated bonuses that they've already paid Fitzgerald. $5M of that is from the last year of his first signing bonus on his extension, and another $2M is from the second year of pro-ration of his "restructure" last year.

Hope that makes some sense. It's easier to show in a spreadsheet.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Yeah, I'm not worried about Campbell's contract. I think that his, Peterson's, and Washington's are all reasonable--as long as you don't want to get out of them. Campbell would have an $11M cap hit if he were released in 2015--there was just a lot of guaranteed money out there.

Much of the NFL has moved in the direction of guaranteeing more salaries in the first couple of years of the deal so guys have more trade value without damaging your cap. That puts the Bears in a pickle with Jay Cutler--who they can't release but can trade--but I like the idea of guaranteeing the first 3 years of a deal in its entirety. That's what we basically did with Veldheer. We can get out of that deal in 2016 without breaking a sweat.

Agreed.

So back to Fitz. My concern is that if we try and keep Fitz, the Cards will be stuck cap wise. That means we won't be able to keep players like Dan Williams or Cromartie. Not to mention adding Free Agents like a pass rusher won't be feasible.

Personally I'd rather keep our defense intact and maybe add a player or two via FA. Williams will probably cost at least $5M a year. I have no idea what Cro's market value will be. Cutting Fitz and a few other moves gives you the opportunity to re-sign those guys and plug a few holes with mid tier FAs.

 

[cardpa]

Cap number is basically three numbers: Salary + prorated past bonuses + current bonuses.

The $16M that Fitzgerald is scheduled to make is an $8M roster bonus due near the beginning of the league year, and $8M in salary paid out in 17 weekly installments during the season.

The Cards also have to account for an additional approx. $7M in pro-rated bonuses that they've already paid Fitzgerald. $5M of that is from the last year of his first signing bonus on his extension, and another $2M is from the second year of pro-ration of his "restructure" last year.

Hope that makes some sense. It's easier to show in a spreadsheet.

So the team really pays Larry $16M in real money however his cap hit is $23M because they spread out the bonus money paid earlier over several years into the future. Correct?

 

[kerouac9]

So the team really pays Larry $16M in real money however his cap hit is $23M because they spread out the bonus money paid earlier over several years into the future. Correct?

That's right. They have $16M in pending money to Fitzgerald, and are accounting for an additional $8M or so in past spending.

If they cut him, $14.4M in past spending gets accelerated into the 2015 cap, so the savings are only $9M. That breaks down to roughly $5M of his initial signing bonus on the extension plus about $9.4M of his restructure bonus from last year.

 

[Hollywood]

You all are missing one small detail that is a major fact in the will he stay or will he go debate.

Namely that Michael Bidwill doesn't want Fitz to ever wear another teams uniform. Since he ultimately has the final say, that has to be factored in.

 

[kerouac9]

You all are missing one small detail that is a major fact in the will he stay or will he go debate.

Namely that Michael Bidwill doesn't want Fitz to ever wear another teams uniform. Since he ultimately has the final say, that has to be factored in.

Michael Bidwill is a businessman and capable of making business decisions. He fired Ken Whisenhunt who brought this franchise an NFC Championship.

If you can't make rational business decisions, then you hire people to make those decisions for you. I trust that Michael Bidwill did that with Keim and Disner.

 

[eastcoastSUN]

I'm ambivalent on the issue since Fitz has meant so much to this organization, but his contract is putrid considering the SB-contending team we're set up for in the next few years.

I can't recall (and I back this up with no empirical evidence) that any recent SB team has ever paid so much to their receiver core in the last decade. With exception to the Seahawks who had Harvin for their run last year, SB winning teams that jump out at me like the Steelers, Giants, Pats, Ravens have never sunk that much into the WR position. I mean, the biggest WR star a few years ago was David Tyree for crying out loud. All the money of really great teams are spent on the QB and Defense.

 

[Hollywood]

Michael Bidwill is a businessman and capable of making business decisions. He fired Ken Whisenhunt who brought this franchise an NFC Championship.

If you can't make rational business decisions, then you hire people to make those decisions for you. I trust that Michael Bidwill did that with Keim and Disner.

I agree but it still has to be factored in. How much he wants Fitz to stay can directly affect how much they are willing to pay him. Even a comment to Keim like "Do what you can to keep Fitz a Cardinal." Can change the negotiations.

 

[BigRedMO]

You all are missing one small detail that is a major fact in the will he stay or will he go debate.

Namely that Michael Bidwill doesn't want Fitz to ever wear another teams uniform. Since he ultimately has the final say, that has to be factored in.

Fitz has the final say. I dont see him staying. Arians is ready to put him out to pasture and Fitz knows he is still a number one. I want to see him do his stuff on a national stage. I dont want to see him block in AZ.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm ambivalent on the issue since Fitz has meant so much to this organization, but his contract is putrid considering the SB-contending team we're set up for in the next few years.

I can't recall (and I back this up with no empirical evidence) that any recent SB team has ever paid so much to their receiver core in the last decade. With exception to the Seahawks who had Harvin for their run last year, SB winning teams that jump out at me like the Steelers, Giants, Pats, Ravens have never sunk that much into the WR position. I mean, the biggest WR star a few years ago was David Tyree for crying out loud. All the money of really great teams are spent on the QB and Defense.

The Colts had some scratch tied up in Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison. The Packers had some money tied up in Greg Jennings. But Fitz's contract set a new standard and ceiling for the WR position that's only been approached by Megatron's deal.

I think that part of the holdup for new deals for A.J. Green and Dez Bryant is that those guys are looking to approach that number, and teams are looking for a re-set on that kind of contract ceiling.

 

[Hollywood]

Fitz has the final say. I dont see him staying.

Yes and no. If the Cardinals decide that they want Fitz at any cost, larry options are either play for the Cardinals or retire. Remember, he is still under contract

 

[BigRedMO]

Yes and no. If the Cardinals decide that they want Fitz at any cost, larry options are either play for the Cardinals or retire. Remember, he is still under contract

They are not going to pay him what he is due. If he is back it is with a new contract.

 

[clif]

I for one would love for fitz to be back on the outside. Also I'm all in for drafting another guy. Fitz is not a number one nor is Floyd.

 

[Hollywood]

They are probably not going to pay him what he is due. If he is back it is nost likely with a new contract.

FTFY

 

[gamebird98]

Larry does not "need" the money....it will be a "football" decision for him.

 

[kerouac9]

Larry does not "need" the money....it will be a "football" decision for him.

Nonsense. He didn't "need" the money on his previous contact, but he took it. If he were up for making a "football" decision, he wouldn't have taken 75% of his 2014 salary as a bonus, helping to create this mess.