Flexibility

[kerouac9]

Murray is the player that can change drastically our offense

Someone’s gotta catch the ball and block for him.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Someone’s gotta catch the ball and block for him.

Wrong, according to the New Testament, and Rosen is Old Testament wisdom where he parted the Red Sea fanbase, Murray was once playing football on the mound instead of baseball and took fives loaves of bread and two fish and made them into a OL and two standout WRs

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

I come to the conclusion that if we drafted Murray, I wouldn't trade Rosen unless I was offered a 1st rounder for him. I would use the preseason to rebuild his value even if I wanted to move forward with Murray. Why waste the value that comes with two cheap QBs.

Didnt Washington do this with RG3 and Cousins also

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

Someone’s gotta catch the ball and block for him.

My point over quite a few post build the Damn Team first and I'm inclined to think Rosen will show a marked improvement Hell Murray would be the walking dead with what the Cards had last year

 

[GatorAZ]

I come to the conclusion that if we drafted Murray, I wouldn't trade Rosen unless I was offered a 1st rounder for him. I would use the preseason to rebuild his value even if I wanted to move forward with Murray. Why waste the value that comes with two cheap QBs.

His value is already a 1st. Anything that happens in the preseason is insignificant.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It’s
Not clear that the cards made any good moves with that leftover cap.

The Rams, Colts, Browns and Eagles made some MONEY moves in their second year with a rookie QB. We got a 38 year old defensive end.

Awesome.

Forgot that the Bears made great moves, too.

That is such a great point. Bears signed Allen Robinson. We signed Kevin white. Bears traded for Kevin Mack. We traded for that old injured tackle. Rams loaded up on high end talent. We signed an oft injured mlb. There’s really no comparison of how we’ve “leveraged” that low cost qb advantage compared to all those other teams. Yuck. Keim.

 

[dscher]

That is such a great point. Bears signed Allen Robinson. We signed Kevin white. Bears traded for Kevin Mack. We traded for that old injured tackle. Rams loaded up on high end talent. We signed an oft injured mlb. There’s really no comparison of how we’ve “leveraged” that low cost qb advantage compared to all those other teams. Yuck. Keim.

This illustrates more than ever that we need Keim to get out of the way during the draft process...or his scouting department isn't as strong as we would like. Either way, we know his strength and it's one year prove it deals. Other than that... ehhh. At this point, give your coach the keys to the castle. Let him build his system around players that will complement his strengths and vice versa. Fool me once.. fool me twice... Or 6 times .Lol . I think mb is catching on slowly but surely.

 

[TJ]

Murray is the player that can change drastically our offense

Murray was an afterthought before a video of Kliff came out hyping Murray prior to playing OU. Now, he’s the second coming of Jesus Christ. The ways in which people buy into hype are astounding.

If Keim doesn’t put better offensive players on the team, it won’t matter who is under center.

The offense is more than one project, high-risk gamble QB away from being respectable.

 

[Chopper0080]

And that's fine, but it's not making the difference between 5-11 and 10-6. The Bears, Eagles, Colts, and Rams remade their roster and put the pieces around their young QB to be successful.

What has Keim done for Rosen? He's not acting like he's 20% of the way through the cost-controlled rebuild.

He spent $20mil to clear up bad contracts that he made. In reality that is all Keim has done and I do believe he thinks he is tweaking a 8-8 roster. I don't believe Keim takes any ownership over last year which is why he is handling the offseason like he is coming off of Arians last 8-8 campaign.

The biggest worry of mine is that Kingsbury hasn't come in and taken hold over how he wants the roster to look. When comparing his entrance to McVay's and Nagy's, he has come off as having less conviction in what he wants to do and what he needs to do it. There is not an aggressive move for offensive skill players or a push to bring in guys who will execute his offense. It is only Charles Clay and Kevin White. That should be a concern to everyone on this board until we are shown that the pieces we have are good enough.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He spent $20mil to clear up bad contracts that he made. In reality that is all Keim has done and I do believe he thinks he is tweaking a 8-8 roster. I don't believe Keim takes any ownership over last year which is why he is handling the offseason like he is coming off of Arians last 8-8 campaign.

The biggest worry of mine is that Kingsbury hasn't come in and taken hold over how he wants the roster to look. When comparing his entrance to McVay's and Nagy's, he has come off as having less conviction in what he wants to do and what he needs to do it. There is not an aggressive move for offensive skill players or a push to bring in guys who will execute his offense. It is only Charles Clay and Kevin White. That should be a concern to everyone on this board until we are shown that the pieces we have are good enough.

Maybe Kliff is telling Keim that he thinks the talent was severely misused by the Wilks coaching staff?

I don't think this team was a 3-13 team talent wise last year. I think this was a 3-13 coaching staff.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We added some backup-level linemen and an oft-injured inside linebacker. Do you want to look back at who the Rams added after Goff's first season?

Sammy Watkins
Robert Woods
Andrew Witworth
John Sullivan

Our offense was the worst in the league last year. Our defense was about league-average with some terrible coaching. Again, we dismantled the defense and haven't done anything about the offense.

Not every offseason is the same!

There wasn't a receiver of Robert Woods caliber available this offseason. The Bills were stupid enough to let a decent WR like Woods walk.

Was there a Pro Bowl caliber LT who was available on a reasonable contract?

Sammy Watkins was jettisoned pretty quickly, I would view that move as not quite working out, but was there another receiver similar this offseason? And you do have to account for personality as well, because if you say AB, then you have to account for his poo personality.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That is such a great point. Bears signed Allen Robinson. We signed Kevin white. Bears traded for Kevin Mack. We traded for that old injured tackle. Rams loaded up on high end talent. We signed an oft injured mlb. There’s really no comparison of how we’ve “leveraged” that low cost qb advantage compared to all those other teams. Yuck. Keim.

Was there a receiver the caliber of Allen Robinson available? This offseason basically had a bunch of slot receivers.

 

[TJ]

Maybe Kliff is telling Keim that he thinks the talent was severely misused by the Wilks coaching staff?

I don't think this team was a 3-13 team talent wise last year. I think this was a 3-13 coaching staff.

I'm confident saying that with a decent coaching staff, we beat Seattle x 2 and Oakland to go 6-10.

 

[Chopper0080]

Maybe Kliff is telling Keim that he thinks the talent was severely misused by the Wilks coaching staff?

I don't think this team was a 3-13 team talent wise last year. I think this was a 3-13 coaching staff.

That is what I mean when I say that the Cardinals are approaching this offseason like they are coming off an 8-8 season.

They are not acting like this roster needs a large influx of talent. That should be a concerning mentality and approach.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I'm confident saying that with a decent coaching staff, we beat Seattle x 2 and Oakland to go 6-10.

I agree...and I think maybe the Bears game as well.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That is what I mean when I say that the Cardinals are approaching this offseason like they are coming off an 8-8 season.

They are not acting like this roster needs a large influx of talent. That should be a concerning mentality and approach.

What would you have done differently?

 

[kerouac9]

He spent $20mil to clear up bad contracts that he made. In reality that is all Keim has done and I do believe he thinks he is tweaking a 8-8 roster. I don't believe Keim takes any ownership over last year which is why he is handling the offseason like he is coming off of Arians last 8-8 campaign.

The biggest worry of mine is that Kingsbury hasn't come in and taken hold over how he wants the roster to look. When comparing his entrance to McVay's and Nagy's, he has come off as having less conviction in what he wants to do and what he needs to do it. There is not an aggressive move for offensive skill players or a push to bring in guys who will execute his offense. It is only Charles Clay and Kevin White. That should be a concern to everyone on this board until we are shown that the pieces we have are good enough.

Kingsbury is coming into a different situation. McVay grew up in the NFL, and Nagy was a long-time assistant. These guys have connections that go around the league and can make these moves with confidence.

Kingsbury is relying on Steve Keim, which I think more and more is going to reveal itself to be a critical error. He hasn't seen these guys or worked with any of them; most of these names are going to be altogether new (I doubt that college coaches follow the NFL very closely).

I think we'll see more moves after minicamp in a couple weeks.

Not every offseason is the same!

There wasn't a receiver of Robert Woods caliber available this offseason. The Bills were stupid enough to let a decent WR like Woods walk.

Was there a Pro Bowl caliber LT who was available on a reasonable contract?

Sammy Watkins was jettisoned pretty quickly, I would view that move as not quite working out, but was there another receiver similar this offseason? And you do have to account for personality as well, because if you say AB, then you have to account for his **** personality.

Andrew Whitworth's contract only looks reasonable through today's lens. When he entered free agency, his 3-year, $34m contract looked pretty pricey. And the good news is — as suggested by Kyle Odegard in the linked post at the top of this thread — a QB on a rookie contract should give you the flexibility to overpay.

Top FA contracts end up looking like bargains 2 years later.

Robert Woods had 200 catches over 4 seasons in Buffalo! Are you kidding me that there aren't receivers "of his caliber" available this offseason? He scored 1 TD the season before he became a free agent.

If Larry Fitzgerald is such an amazing mentor, maybe he could've kept Antonio Brown in the fold.

I'm confident saying that with a decent coaching staff, we beat Seattle x 2 and Oakland to go 6-10.

You can't say that a league-average coaching staff would flip your one-score game results to all wins. In reality, we win half our one-score games (we were 2-4) and the blowouts are a little closer.

I said this last year, and no one wanted to hear it, but Arians was historically dominant in one-score games and a great game-day coach, and things were likely to regress toward the mean.

 

[tnmike]

Wrong, according to the New Testament, and Rosen is Old Testament wisdom where he parted the Red Sea fanbase, Murray was once playing football on the mound instead of baseball and took fives loaves of bread and two fish and made them into a OL and two standout WRs

I thought it would be more appropriate the story about David defeating the Philistines and returning with 200 foreskins

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I said this last year, and no one wanted to hear it, but Arians was historically dominant in one-score games and a great game-day coach, and things were likely to regress toward the mean.

Technically, you said after the 2013 and 2014 seasons that these one score game wins were a fluke and we would see a regression - BA proved you wrong

I really think this season is about stabilization since we basically screwed our cap by jettisoning the bath water last year (almost every FA brought in - Bradford, Glennon, Andre Smith, Benewikere, Penny, Butler, Coleman, Taylor, Boehm, Wright) - we are in complete and absolute rebuild right now. This year is figuring stuff out, next year is the year you want to see us actually bringing in the impact players.

 

[GuernseyCard]

That is what I mean when I say that the Cardinals are approaching this offseason like they are coming off an 8-8 season.

They are not acting like this roster needs a large influx of talent. That should be a concerning mentality and approach.

Can we wait on the ongoing FA period; possible trades, and drafting at the top of every round that matters.

 

[Harry]

Murray isnt going to cost THAT much more.

Okay let’s compare Jared Goff’s contract

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/jared-goff-18949/

To Rosen’s contract

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/josh-rosen-25105/

First note the dead money cost if Murray tanks.
$3 million is a good player, like Swearinger.
I think the cap hit would be about $8mil if they trade Rosen
Finally the gamble is that Murray would be so much better than Rosen that it would be worth giving away Bosa, et. al.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Okay let’s compare Jared Goff’s contract

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/los-angeles-rams/jared-goff-18949/

To Rosen’s contract

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/josh-rosen-25105/

First note the dead money cost if Murray tanks.
$3 million is a good player, like Swearinger.
I think the cap hit would be about $8mil if they trade Rosen
Finally the gamble is that Murray would be so much better than Rosen that it would be worth giving away Bosa, et. al.

If Murray is a good QB while Rosen is an average QB, WAR would dictate that Murray is worth more than Rosen and Bosa.