Floating under the radar (power ranking)

[BigRedRage]

Number 29 with PFT

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...nd-at-no-29-on-pfts-preseason-power-rankings/

Homerism aside, no way in hell this team is 29th out of 32! Way too much talent.

 

[Stronso]

Floating under the radar is a good thing. Let them prove it on the field




Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[Catfish]

Floating under the radar is a good thing. Let them prove it on the field




Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

I agree with Stronso----ranking 29th is a good thing right now. No big expectations for us to surprise anyone. I'll settle for that at this point. Might prove to allow for an unexpected win or two.

 

[kerouac9]

Number 29 with PFT

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...nd-at-no-29-on-pfts-preseason-power-rankings/

Homerism aside, no way in hell this team is 29th out of 32! Way too much talent.

Not to quibble too much, but after Fitz, Peterson, Campbell, and arguably Dansby, what talent are you talking about that is proven league-average or better?

I think there are a bunch of teams grouped together in the middle of the league, but it's hard for me to say right now that the Cards are significantly better than a team like the Chiefs, who had eight (!) pro bowlers last year and had similar if not superior upgrades at head coach and QB.

 

[Darkside]

I think the ranking is close to accurate. In my opinion we're a better team than 3 teams in the AFC East: Dolphins, Jets, Bills. In the North we're better than the Browns. In the South aren't we better than Jacksonville and Tennessee? And in the AFC West we gotta be better than the Raiders (I think the Chiefs have talent).

It's the NFC Conference where we get into trouble: probably not better or as good as anyone in the NFC East, including the Eagles. NFC North same thing, I don't think we're as good as anyone. NFC South we're maybe better than Tampa. And in our own division we're probably last or tied with the Rams.

The fact that we're in the toughest conference and in the toughest division in football drops our ranking in my opinion, because there's potential for us to lose every single division game. In my opinion we're only better than maybe 7 teams in the whole NFL.

 

[Gottalean]

I would say were more like 25 but I like the ranking. Id actually prefer being ranked last cuz we all know we play best wen everyone else counts us out..

And I think Docket, Palmer, and D wash have proven to be good as well K9

 

[Duckjake]

Not to quibble too much, but after Fitz, Peterson, Campbell, and arguably Dansby, what talent are you talking about that is proven league-average or better?

Sam Acho, Lyle Sendlein and Alex Okafor.

 

[JeffGollin]

"Under the Radar" Ratings", "Three Team Race", "Bleacher Report - Palmer Cards Biggest Bust" etc. etc. etc.

Hmm. I'm thinking we should combine all of these into a single "We Don't Get No Love" thread.

 

[BigRedRage]

Not to quibble too much, but after Fitz, Peterson, Campbell, and arguably Dansby, what talent are you talking about that is proven league-average or better?

I think there are a bunch of teams grouped together in the middle of the league, but it's hard for me to say right now that the Cards are significantly better than a team like the Chiefs, who had eight (!) pro bowlers last year and had similar if not superior upgrades at head coach and QB.

Seriously? Or are you just playing devils advocate?

There are lots of rookies and up and comers but you have several proven badasses on each side of the field and tons of potential around and beneath them.

Dockett and Dwash just to name another two complete bad asses.

Cason and powers are above average corners.

Mathieu and Minter are beasts.

I like Andre roberts AND Floyd, floyd will step it up big this year. Housler too now that qbs will actually hit him with the ball. Cooper, levi brown being back, massie being what he was on the final stretch.

This is a good team, no worse than 7-9 and that is a ranking between 14 and 22, not 29.

 

[kerouac9]

Seriously? Or are you just playing devils advocate? A little bit of both. PFT isn't really a football analysis site as much as an aggregator/troll. Just people bellyaching that our 5-11 team isn't getting more love is so wearying.

There are lots of rookies and up and comers but you have several proven badasses on each side of the field and tons of potential around and beneath them.

Dockett and Dwash just to name another two complete bad asses.

DWash is going to be absent for at least a quarter of the season, and he'll be 4 weeks behind in integrating a new defense at full speed when he returns. He's a guy who's put up good stats in garbage time, but in comparison to Patrick Peterson, when has he made a game-changing play?

Cason and powers are above average corners.

The recent stats don't support that assertion on Cason, and Powers can be an above average corner--for six games a season until he goes on IR.

Mathieu and Minter are beasts.

Pure speculation. Minter is just slightly bigger than Buster Davis, whom many were making similar assertions about not so long ago. Tyrann Mathieu hasn't played a meaningful snap in two years.

I like Andre roberts AND Floyd, floyd will step it up big this year. Housler too now that qbs will actually hit him with the ball. Cooper, levi brown being back, massie being what he was on the final stretch.

I like Roberts and Floyd, too. But Roberts isn't even an above-average slot receiver, and Housler hasn't scored a touchdown in two professional seasons.

This is a good team, no worse than 7-9 and that is a ranking between 14 and 22, not 29.

In what world is a "good team" 7-9? They were 8-8 a year ago, and other worse teams made as good or better improvements (the Chiefs, the Bucs, maybe the Rams). Until this team has a legitimate rush linebacker and a quarterback proven to be able to close out games, it's going to be difficult to say that this team can line up and be an 8-8 or better unit from Week 1, especially considering that we'll likely be playing one of the 5 hardest schedules in the NFL again this year.

 

[BigRedRage]

In what world is a "good team" 7-9? They were 8-8 a year ago, and other worse teams made as good or better improvements (the Chiefs, the Bucs, maybe the Rams). Until this team has a legitimate rush linebacker and a quarterback proven to be able to close out games, it's going to be difficult to say that this team can line up and be an 8-8 or better unit from Week 1, especially considering that we'll likely be playing one of the 5 hardest schedules in the NFL again this year.

Not bellyaching, just saying I will bet $1000 here and now that we will not be the 29th ranked team when the season ends.

Dwash made tons of gap sack big plays last season.

I like the cast we have assembled and think the coaching staff will do well. I dont expect to see 12-4 or anything but I think we will at worst be 20th in the league, not 29th.

Who was 8-8 a year ago? we were 5-11.

 

[Duckjake]

In what world is a "good team" 7-9? They were 8-8 a year ago, and other worse teams made as good or better improvements (the Chiefs, the Bucs, maybe the Rams). Until this team has a legitimate rush linebacker and a quarterback proven to be able to close out games, it's going to be difficult to say that this team can line up and be an 8-8 or better unit from Week 1, especially considering that we'll likely be playing one of the 5 hardest schedules in the NFL again this year.

Has Palmer had a problem closing out games or has it been being able to come from behind in close games? It seems to me it will be up to Mendenhall and the offensive line to close out games but has Palmer had problems passing for critical first downs late in games? I don't know.

It's hard to gauge because his situational stats seem to vary from year to year but last season in the "last two minutes of half" he had 7 TDs and only 2 picks in 97 attempts. What does that say? I don't know that either.

 

[kerouac9]

Not bellyaching, just saying I will bet $1000 here and now that we will not be the 29th ranked team when the season ends. Maybe, but it's not the end of the season, it's the pre-beginning of the season. This offense is one Larry Fitzgerald hamstring strain from utter disaster.

Dwash made tons of gap sack big plays last season.

Remind me of the difference-making ones--the ones that helped decide games. Maybe against the Eagles he had one while the game was still semi-close?

I like the cast we have assembled and think the coaching staff will do well. I dont expect to see 12-4 or anything but I think we will at worst be 20th in the league, not 29th.

Who was 8-8 a year ago? we were 5-11.

As I said, there are a bunch of teams lumped together in the middle-bottom of the league. If you read that ranking as being "we're the best of the terrible teams," then you're probably right that it's an unfair ranking. If you read it--as I do--that we might be the worst of the below-average teams, then you might consider that a fair ranking.

I don't understand people who "believe" that a bunch of guys are going to be awesome, and then bellyache that national reporters don't have that same faith. Our defensive coordinator has played that role for 8 games in the last decade, and in those 8 games his defense was the worst in the NFL.

 

[BigRedRage]

I don't understand people who "believe" that a bunch of guys are going to be awesome, and then bellyache that national reporters don't have that same faith. Our defensive coordinator has played that role for 8 games in the last decade, and in those 8 games his defense was the worst in the NFL.

I dont understand people who bellyache about a fan making a small comment that he thinks the team will be far better than 29th


And no, I dont think a fitz hamstring issue would derail the entire season. Maybe a Palmer one would.


Sorry for making the comment that IMO no way in hell will we land at 29, didnt know it would ruin your day to see a fan think his team was good.

IM excited, think we will do well. We werent even 29th last year with the worst QB core ever.

 

[kerouac9]

I dont understand people who bellyache about a fan making a small comment that he thinks the team will be far better than 29th


And no, I dont think a fitz hamstring issue would derail the entire season. Maybe a Palmer one would.


Sorry for making the comment that IMO no way in hell will we land at 29, didnt know it would ruin your day to see a fan think his team was good.

IM excited, think we will do well. We werent even 29th last year with the worst QB core ever.

So not "homerism aside" as you say in your original post. What you meant was "based entirely on homerism."

We weren't 29th based on 16 games, but based on the last 12 games, we were pretty darn close. 28th in total DVOA, 32nd in offensive DVOA in an offense-driven league. We kicked our 3rd best defensive asset to the curb in Horton, and our 4th and 5th best defensive assets in Adrian Wilson and Kerry Rhodes.

I think we're clearly better than Jacksonville, Cleveland, Buffalo, and the Jets. I think that anyone else is an argument. So we're quibbling on the difference--right now--between 29th and 27th or so. Certainly worth our time.

As for the structure of the offense: if Fitz goes down, whom is the offense structured around? We saw when Palmer was the #1 guy in Oakland without Run DMC that the Raiders offense was fairly toothless. Once McFadden was injured, the Oakland offense scored more than 17 points once in the final 7 games of the season.

 

[kerouac9]

Has Palmer had a problem closing out games or has it been being able to come from behind in close games? It seems to me it will be up to Mendenhall and the offensive line to close out games but has Palmer had problems passing for critical first downs late in games? I don't know.

It's hard to gauge because his situational stats seem to vary from year to year but last season in the "last two minutes of half" he had 7 TDs and only 2 picks in 97 attempts. What does that say? I don't know that either.

I think this is one place where QBR can be a useful stat. Palmer was 18th in the NFL in DVOA last year, but 29th in QBR. I think that's a reflection of a lot of plays in garbage time but choking when plays need to be made to win games.

In 5 seasons for which data is available, Palmer has had a QBR over 60 once (in 2011) and below 50 three times, including last year.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think this is one place where QBR can be a useful stat. Palmer was 18th in the NFL in DVOA last year, but 29th in QBR. I think that's a reflection of a lot of plays in garbage time but choking when plays need to be made to win games.

True but did he have any WRs to throw to last year?

 

[kerouac9]

True but did he have any WRs to throw to last year?

I like Denarius Moore. I like DHB, although he was clearly overdrafted. I even like Derek Hagan as a homeless man's Early Doucet.

Put it another way: Ryan Tannehill was 19th in QBR, and no one is going to confuse Miami's receiving corps with a group of All-Pros, and Tannehill was a rookie coming out as a Junior.

 

[BigRedRage]

So not "homerism aside" as you say in your original post. What you meant was "based entirely on homerism."

We weren't 29th based on 16 games, but based on the last 12 games, we were pretty darn close. 28th in total DVOA, 32nd in offensive DVOA in an offense-driven league. We kicked our 3rd best defensive asset to the curb in Horton, and our 4th and 5th best defensive assets in Adrian Wilson and Kerry Rhodes.

I think we're clearly better than Jacksonville, Cleveland, Buffalo, and the Jets. I think that anyone else is an argument. So we're quibbling on the difference--right now--between 29th and 27th or so. Certainly worth our time.

As for the structure of the offense: if Fitz goes down, whom is the offense structured around? We saw when Palmer was the #1 guy in Oakland without Run DMC that the Raiders offense was fairly toothless. Once McFadden was injured, the Oakland offense scored more than 17 points once in the final 7 games of the season.

it is homerism aside, I can easily point out many teams that I think will do worse. My homerism says we will go 10-6. My realistic side says 7-9. 7-9 is mid league.

Palmer threw for 4k without any good wrs, he will do fine regardless here.

 

[BigRedRage]

I think this is one place where QBR can be a useful stat. Palmer was 18th in the NFL in DVOA last year, but 29th in QBR. I think that's a reflection of a lot of plays in garbage time but choking when plays need to be made to win games.

In 5 seasons for which data is available, Palmer has had a QBR over 60 once (in 2011) and below 50 three times, including last year.

70% of his passes were thrown while they were behind, I think their problem was much bigger than him. If it is garbage time from the beginning of the first quarter, you dont have many options.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I like Denarius Moore. I like DHB, although he was clearly overdrafted. I even like Derek Hagan as a homeless man's Early Doucet.

Put it another way: Ryan Tannehill was 19th in QBR, and no one is going to confuse Miami's receiving corps with a group of All-Pros, and Tannehill was a rookie coming out as a Junior.

NFL.com had Oakland as having the worst WR corp in the NFL recently:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000169313/article/worst-position-groups-in-the-nfl-offense

 

[BigRedRage]

nfl.com wants me to join fan rewards so badly that they dont allow me to close the popup and read the article. Again, screw you nfl.com

 

[kerouac9]

70% of his passes were thrown while they were behind, I think their problem was much bigger than him. If it is garbage time from the beginning of the first quarter, you dont have many options.

But QBR discounts those factors. They're screened out or downgraded in the computation.

NFL.com had Oakland as having the worst WR corp in the NFL recently:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000169313/article/worst-position-groups-in-the-nfl-offense

And that's all well and good. I disagree. It's not an amazing WR group, and they've undergone some turnover. But it was good enough for Palmer to put up some pretty good stats the last two years. Why couldn't he perform when it mattered?

it is homerism aside, I can easily point out many teams that I think will do worse. My homerism says we will go 10-6. My realistic side says 7-9. 7-9 is mid league.

Palmer threw for 4k without any good wrs, he will do fine regardless here.

What are those teams? I gave you four or five. What are the additional nine or ten that, right now, you can say are clearly worse than us?

 

[BigRedRage]

I could make a list of worse, par and better IMO but i dont really care to continue

 

[kerouac9]

I could make a list of worse, par and better IMO but i dont really care to continue

Well, that truly is a compelling argument.