Flopping Myth Exposed

[D-Dogg]

I don't really see how charges = flopping.

Flopping is more than just faking someone charging on you.

thank you

 

[D-Dogg]

Pointless, taking a charge is NOT the same as flopping on any contact. Nash takes charges he doesn't fall down on the perimiter like he got ran over by a truck like Manu big difference.

No, he flops with the best of them. My avatar included.

 

[BigJit]

Can you imagine instant replay in the NBA for flopping? That sounds as ridiculous as the NFL allowing the coaches to review penaltys called by the Officials. It would make the game come to a grinding halt.On a side note, the NBA VP was on ESPN radio yesterday and talked briefly about the flopping in the League and how they let the teams put a vote in to see if it needed to be addressed and after the vote, the owners & coaches voted to not waist their time with something as trivial as flopping. Of course, they will vote on this every year during the off-season, and maybe, more will vote to address it. But to be honest, it's NOT a big deal. What they should do is something similar to the NHL for Diving. If the NBA could add a personal foul for flopping, that would definately make a lot of the actors change their game a bit.

 

[shazaam6]

Just for laughs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9Z1wAwQtM&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH73R9GIbXg&NR=1

 

[AfroSuns]

Just for laughs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D9Z1wAwQtM&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH73R9GIbXg&NR=1

LOL at Marjle, maybe he should institute a Hustler's Travelling award

 

[Ryanwb]

The NHL had the same problem with flopping. They changed to rule and now if you "flop" you get the penalty. So why not charge the flopper with a foul it is preceived to be a flop?

The problem would clear right up

 

[nowagimp]

Can you imagine instant replay in the NBA for flopping? That sounds as ridiculous as the NFL allowing the coaches to review penaltys called by the Officials. It would make the game come to a grinding halt.On a side note, the NBA VP was on ESPN radio yesterday and talked briefly about the flopping in the League and how they let the teams put a vote in to see if it needed to be addressed and after the vote, the owners & coaches voted to not waist their time with something as trivial as flopping. Of course, they will vote on this every year during the off-season, and maybe, more will vote to address it. But to be honest, it's NOT a big deal. What they should do is something similar to the NHL for Diving. If the NBA could add a personal foul for flopping, that would definately make a lot of the actors change their game a bit.

I would love to imagine the NBA being as open and honest as the NFL(and as successful). The NFL is clearly the model for all other sports in the USA, its not even close. I always watch the NFL whenever I can, its the best sport in the world. It wouldnt be hard to give coaches 2 replays per half only on foul calls that were disputed as flops. If the coach loses the challenge, his team is assessed a penalty shot as well as the foul to his player. If the player is determined to have flopped, the foul call should be overturned, possession to the team winning the challenge, and a technical foul assessed to that player. Thus 2 convicted flops equals a disqualification. To those of you who think this would slow down the game, what do the flopping fouls already do? Its obvious that all the flopping in the NBA slows down the game already, so getting rid of it would speed the game up. As far as the players/owners voting, I expect that they fear the cure might be worse than the disease, given the officiating problems that the NBA already has. NBA players already dont trust the officiating by the dinos that cant keep up, use superstar rules, and prance around like they are the featured act. And this is why the use of cameras by officials, with at least one official always at the cameras would make officiating better.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I feel like im in preschool or something reading this thread.

 

[buttsR4rebounding]

First off, what the heck is "flopping on offense"? The stats were for drawing offensive fouls or charges. My point is two fold. First, the fact that Manu only drew 27 charges all season is an indication that the flopping issue is way overblown. I use Nash as a comparison because he too has a reputation around the league for flopping as does Raja Bell. The second point is that Shaq complained about the Spurs flopping in game one. Yet, Amare and Shaq are 4th and 9th in the league, respectively in charging violations. This is with Shaq missing 21 games this year. Shaq actually has the highest charging violations per game this year and Amare is 5th. Does the whole league flop against the Suns or do the Suns have a couple of players who don't understand how to avoid charges? Duncan, for example accumulates charging violations at less than half the rate of Shaq or Amare. Just something to think about.

 

[nowagimp]

First off, what the heck is "flopping on offense"? The stats were for drawing offensive fouls or charges. My point is two fold. First, the fact that Manu only drew 27 charges all season is an indication that the flopping issue is way overblown. I use Nash as a comparison because he too has a reputation around the league for flopping as does Raja Bell. The second point is that Shaq complained about the Spurs flopping in game one. Yet, Amare and Shaq are 4th and 9th in the league, respectively in charging violations. This is with Shaq missing 21 games this year. Shaq actually has the highest charging violations per game this year and Amare is 5th. Does the whole league flop against the Suns or do the Suns have a couple of players who don't understand how to avoid charges? Duncan, for example accumulates charging violations at less than half the rate of Shaq or Amare. Just something to think about.

1) re read the thread(or read it for the first time) for the flopping on offense, the point was charges DO NOT in themselves constitute flopping, stated by chandler mike and agreed to by mulktiple other posters. Just read the thread.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

i'll admit that raja and nash flop, but nash also takes some legit charges.

the key to this whole thread is the insight into the spurs fan's mentality. he automatically equates flops to charges. he doesn't see the difference between the two. that should basically tell every non-spurs fan, "don't argue with spurs fans about flopping b/c they obviously don't have a clue how the rest of the league, it's fans, etc. define 'flopping' verses a 'charge.' it's pointless to argue with someone that doesn't understand the basic premises of the arguments."

 

[The Man In Black]

Sad that so many think that wins and losses are predicated by acting. Try tougher defense, better rebounding, smart ball control. All of that means more but no one really talks about that. Is it because whining about flops validates a veiled reason?

 

[BigJit]

i'll admit that raja and nash flop, but nash also takes some legit charges.

the key to this whole thread is the insight into the spurs fan's mentality. he automatically equates flops to charges. he doesn't see the difference between the two. that should basically tell every non-spurs fan, "don't argue with spurs fans about flopping b/c they obviously don't have a clue how the rest of the league, it's fans, etc. define 'flopping' verses a 'charge.' it's pointless to argue with someone that doesn't understand the basic premises of the arguments."

I'm not a Spurs fan and I define flopping as to what it is. It's just a flop for god's sake. It's a part of the game! EVERY freakin team, including the Suns & Spurs do it! Sure the NBA can make a flopping personal foul rule, but as of right now, there is none. So man up and deal with it! Is there any solid evidence to prove that the Spurs flop more than any other team in the NBA???? I have yet to see any proof. And i'm sure NONE of you can bring any solid evidence to prove your point. Is this just a Suns vs Spurs thing? Or is it always a complaining about flopping with whoever the Suns play?

Lets get real people. Flopping isn't the reason why a team loses a playoff series. It's all the other things that are. Like bad shooting from the field, bad defense, being outrebounded and etc. How about the simple fact that the other team is just simply better.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sad that so many think that wins and losses are predicated by acting. Try tougher defense, better rebounding, smart ball control. All of that means more but no one really talks about that. Is it because whining about flops validates a veiled reason?

i agree with tougher d, rebounding and smart ball control as being the reasons we lose and I don't think the majority of the people here think flopping is the reason we lose. It's just annoying to watch. If I wanted to watch soccer, I'd watch soccer and that's not applied to teams we play against. Shawn Marion used to be a soccer player type ***** as well, going to floor in a heap and making it look like the end of the world before getting up and being fine. I hated that just as much as I hate seeing Parker or Ginobli do it. It's just bad for the game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm not a Spurs fan and I define flopping as to what it is. It's just a flop for god's sake. It's a part of the game! EVERY freakin team, including the Suns & Spurs do it! Sure the NBA can make a flopping personal foul rule, but as of right now, there is none. So man up and deal with it! Is there any solid evidence to prove that the Spurs flop more than any other team in the NBA???? I have yet to see any proof. And i'm sure NONE of you can bring any solid evidence to prove your point. Is this just a Suns vs Spurs thing? Or is it always a complaining about flopping with whoever the Suns play?

I complain about flopping no matter who's playing. I yell at Nash for falling down and always used to berate Marion for acting like a soccer player. It's just bad for the game and it seems like it's become so much more prevalent in the last decade than I ever remember it being before then.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not a Spurs fan and I define flopping as to what it is. It's just a flop for god's sake. It's a part of the game! EVERY freakin team, including the Suns & Spurs do it! Sure the NBA can make a flopping personal foul rule, but as of right now, there is none. So man up and deal with it! Is there any solid evidence to prove that the Spurs flop more than any other team in the NBA???? I have yet to see any proof. And i'm sure NONE of you can bring any solid evidence to prove your point. Is this just a Suns vs Spurs thing? Or is it always a complaining about flopping with whoever the Suns play?

as far as i know every single fan of every team with whom i speak concurs that the spurs are the biggest perpetrators of the flop. and you're right, it's empirically impossible to provide "evidence" of the flop as it is subjective. but you're wrong when you say there is no rule against it. a personal foul, i believe, is defined to be a touching that somehow produces an unfair advantage. if the individual is not unfairly prejudiced by the touch and flops merely to get a call, that is not a foul, but they are fooling a ref into calling it as such. that's basically cheating and figuring out a way to get away with it. does it exist in the nba? absolutely. does every team do it? absolutely. do some teams have more floppers than others? if you say "no" you're just wrong. the fact that the spurs have the widely held rep as floppers is not meaningless. reputations are born from some earlier experience. to deny that is to put your head in the sand.

your argument is specious at best. when you throw around the word "evidence" you're intimating that someone must provide documentation or hard numbers. there are other types of evidence that can be provided, such as circumstantial evidence, reputation, and subjective evidence. of that, evidence of the spurs abundance of flopping abounds.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I complain about flopping no matter who's playing. I yell at Nash for falling down and always used to berate Marion for acting like a soccer player. It's just bad for the game and it seems like it's become so much more prevalent in the last decade than I ever remember it being before then.

i concur. i don't like flopping, but don't place entire blame for our losses on the flopping (though you cannot argue that flopping does not lead to foul trouble, which saddled our big men in game 1). that said, i know we have floppers as well. bell and nash are notorious for flopping. and i'd be game to stop everyone's flopping if possible. but given the fact that we have to play the spurs who have taken flopping to an art level, then at least i'm glad we got a couple floppers to try to even out the inbalance.

 

[sLapzsHaQ]

if Shaq flops, why is he whining about flopping?

oh the irony?

You talking about Shaq flopping, even though it doesn't affect your team.

Oh the bitterness...

 

[Phade]

You talking about Shaq flopping, even though it doesn't affect your team.

Oh the bitterness...

no crap what a weirdo..

 

[buttsR4rebounding]

1) re read the thread(or read it for the first time) for the flopping on offense, the point was charges DO NOT in themselves constitute flopping, stated by chandler mike and agreed to by mulktiple other posters. Just read the thread.

I did read the thread. Heck, I started it. I understand that they are making a point that all charges did not result from flops, but the number of charges drawn is probably the best statistical indicator of flops. The rest is just anidotal. I was pointing out that there is no drawing of charges on offense. Additionally, the fact that Ginobili only drew 27 charges all season--fewer than Nash, Bell, or Hill--is an indication that the charge that he and the Spurs somehow are the worse flopping team in the league is groundless. It is more telling that the statistic that O'Neal and Amare are 1st and 5th in the league in charging violations per game is indicative of 2 players that don't know how to play the game without putting themselves in that position. It may be that their game benifits more from the aggressive moves to the rim than the cost of an occassional charging call hinders it which I believe is the case, but, if so then don't complain about the consequences.

 

[nowagimp]

I did read the thread. Heck, I started it. I understand that they are making a point that all charges did not result from flops, but the number of charges drawn is probably the best statistical indicator of flops. The rest is just anidotal. I was pointing out that there is no drawing of charges on offense. Additionally, the fact that Ginobili only drew 27 charges all season--fewer than Nash, Bell, or Hill--is an indication that the charge that he and the Spurs somehow are the worse flopping team in the league is groundless. It is more telling that the statistic that O'Neal and Amare are 1st and 5th in the league in charging violations per game is indicative of 2 players that don't know how to play the game without putting themselves in that position. It may be that their game benifits more from the aggressive moves to the rim than the cost of an occassional charging call hinders it which I believe is the case, but, if so then don't complain about the consequences.

You seem to have a blind spot for the offensive flop, that is the flop by the offensive player. As I stated before its even worse than the defensive flop as you can initiate it to cause foul trouble for the other teams players. 80% of parkers and manus flops are going to the rim as offensive players, not defenders. Do you not remember the way manu would throw his head/long hair back, or parker falls going to hoop every time whether he has been contacted or not? Until you acknowledge those things you do not realize that the discussiuon has moved on to the more accurate description of flopping, that is faking contact energy to draw a foul on offense or defense. Flopping is part of the reason that I dont favor basketball anymore, the euros have destroyed what was the best sport in america. The spurs are a very good team regardless, but they lower themsleves to flopping to get every competitive advantage. It has changed some, manu is a better player as he doesnt depend on flopping so much anymore. The NBA needs to fix this and the superstar rules and then, maybe, it can rise to the days of MJ.

 

[shazaam6]

I hate idiot logic and bs justification such as, pretending you've been hit to get the foul is not cheating, as long as you get the refs to make the improper call.

(use Bud Light commercial voice)So Yay to you for ruining the integrity of a great game, Mr. "I trick the refs by falling down for no reason, Spurs basketball cheater." or in other words, "I suck so watch me make an ass outta my ass, and fall down."

It cheapens the game in so many ways:
Players cant rely on refs to make the right call.
Players know a wrong call was made so they react by telling the ref they're wrong.
Refs don't like complaining so they call technicals, further widening them from the players.
Players get unjust fouls which cause them to play less minutes and/or play more conservatively.
Fans don't get to see what they paid for when players have bs foul trouble.
It rewards acting which is not basketball.

 

[buttsR4rebounding]

You seem to have a blind spot for the offensive flop, that is the flop by the offensive player. As I stated before its even worse than the defensive flop as you can initiate it to cause foul trouble for the other teams players. 80% of parkers and manus flops are going to the rim as offensive players, not defenders. Do you not remember the way manu would throw his head/long hair back, or parker falls going to hoop every time whether he has been contacted or not? Until you acknowledge those things you do not realize that the discussiuon has moved on to the more accurate description of flopping, that is faking contact energy to draw a foul on offense or defense. Flopping is part of the reason that I dont favor basketball anymore, the euros have destroyed what was the best sport in america. The spurs are a very good team regardless, but they lower themsleves to flopping to get every competitive advantage. It has changed some, manu is a better player as he doesnt depend on flopping so much anymore. The NBA needs to fix this and the superstar rules and then, maybe, it can rise to the days of MJ.

Parker falls quite often because he has to contort his body to get the ball up past guys a foot taller than him. There is some contact at times, but it is typically incidental. Manu gets fouled going to the hole far more than he gets the call for. His herky jerky motion is so difficult to defend that he is fouled by opponents who aren't accustomed to it. He is one of the few players I have ever seen who as they take the 2 steps to the shot actually change direction. He happens to have amazing body control and is able to recover and get off a quality shot.

 

[Darth Llama]

The discussion is silly. All teams flop including the Spurs and the Suns.

 

[GO SPURS GO]

all i got to say