FOAMY FINGER Moves to Phoenix

[Nash]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0823sarver0823.html

Sarver will split time between his US Airways Center office for the Suns and a Biltmore-area office for Alliance Bank of Arizona, which is held by the Western Alliance Bancorporation for which he serves as chairman and CEO. "I go to the bank office to make the money and I go to the arena office to spend the money," Sarver joked.

yeah RIGHT! S.P.E.N.D. his money. I'm sure he doesn't pay even for that foamy finger of his!

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

um he spends his money on payroll. But you are right, the finger was probably free....

 

[SunsTzu]

um he spends his money on payroll. But you are right, the finger was probably free....

I heard the finger was the sticking point when Sarver bought the team from JC. They came to a compromise that Sarver would pay for the finger but JC would pay the taxes(since we all know how much Sarver wants to avoid paying tax).

 

[Phill11]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0823sarver0823.html



yeah RIGHT! S.P.E.N.D. his money. I'm sure he doesn't pay even for that foamy finger of his!

It's his team. Why should have to pay for what he owns?

I just don't get this boards obsession with bashing Sarver. He's been a great owner. You guys hated him for the JJ thing. Look how it turned out. You guys hated him for the draft pick thing and in a year or two when we win a Championship you won't hate him for that.

I just don't get it...

 

[Mainstreet]

It's his team. Why should have to pay for what he owns?

I just don't get this boards obsession with bashing Sarver. He's been a great owner. You guys hated him for the JJ thing. Look how it turned out. You guys hated him for the draft pick thing and in a year or two when we win a Championship you won't hate him for that.

I just don't get it...

You don't really think this discussion is really about the foamy finger do you? I don't.

Personally I think the Suns got the better end of the JJ trade as you probably do as well. So this discussion is not about JJ.

IMO this discussion is will Sarver go the extra mile to win a Championship? I'm still waiting to find out. I know he didn't use the TE with a pick to add a quality role player. And I'm still waiting for Diaw to get extended. I'm really happy the Suns signed Banks and extended LB, but somewhat disappointed so far that the Suns settled for the signing of EP and Marks. In my mind, the 13th player signed should be able to actually see some valuable playing time. Also, I wouldn't mind if the Suns carried a 14 or 15 man roster as some other teams do. Additionally, I would like to see the Suns try to develop a player like Lampe as the 14th player.

I believe if the Suns added the right player to their team (perhaps it might have been an Ely) the Suns chances of winning a Championship would have significantly improved. Yes, Ely might have moved the Suns into LT territory after this coming season but a Championship would have been worth it. I can only hope the Suns win it anyway. The Suns actually have until the season trading deadline to add such a player so I'm keeping my mind open.

To sum it up, if this were baseball, I would want Sarver sliding into home plate on a close play in the 7th game of the World Series. Wouldn't you?

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm not sure what is expected of Sarver at this point. David Griffin may have suggested the Suns couldn't afford Ely, but we don't really know what the deal was supposed to be. The very fact that Grif was talking suggests they aren't just sitting around waiting for the waiver wire to fill up.

The bizzare part of the Sarver bashing is that there is a lot less evidence he's really messed things up than BC did over the last several years of the Colangelo ownership. Yes, BC won executive of the year, but prior to Sarver taking over he was batting no better than 50%.

1. Trades Bo Outlaw and Big Jake for Brevin Knight, then trades Knight for Jahidi White to replace Jake but requires a prime lottery pick to unload White.

2. Uses two first round picks to unload Googs.

3. Signs Marbury to a zillion dollar deal and unloads him soon afterword.

4. Passes on several good players including Boris Diaw to take Zarko and takes Casey over Prince.

This is just recent stuff. Prior to that there is the whole McDyess fiasco, signing Hardaway with a history of injuries to a horrible contract, signing Longley, etc.

Comparatively, what has Sarver done to match the botch jobs that BC had us suffer through? I'm not saying he won't make mistakes, everyone does. I'm just saying is that either through luck or skill, his results have been above average. Unfortunately, success is not enough to get people off his back.

 

[Chaplin]

Funny Mainstreet, I thought the discussion was about Sarver moving from San Diego to Phoenix. At least, that is all the article quoted was about. Of course, Nash has to take it further and spout his anti-Sarver rhetoric, which in turn gets everyone riled up.

But yet again, another thread hijacked by anti-Sarverites and their insistency that Sarver is a cheap bastard with nothing to back it up except a trade that we ended up getting the BETTER end of!

And I'm not sure if you intended it to, but your post also implies that a trade for Ely is the missing piece for a championship. I can't honestly believe that you really feel like that. Ely might be a decent (i.e. average) player, but he is not going to be the deciding factor of whether we win a title or not. Hell, outside of a "star" player, nobody we pick up will be the deciding factor.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I'm not sure what is expected of Sarver at this point. David Griffin may have suggested the Suns couldn't afford Ely, but we don't really know what the deal was supposed to be.

Griff said there was no need to use the TE because it wasn't worth the salary slot we had available to get a end of the bench guy.

In fact, the Suns are still considering Ely - even though their TE expired.

 

[Mainstreet]

Funny Mainstreet, I thought the discussion was about Sarver moving from San Diego to Phoenix. At least, that is all the article quoted was about. Of course, Nash has to take it further and spout his anti-Sarver rhetoric, which in turn gets everyone riled up.

But yet again, another thread hijacked by anti-Sarverites and their insistency that Sarver is a cheap bastard with nothing to back it up except a trade that we ended up getting the BETTER end of!

And I'm not sure if you intended it to, but your post also implies that a trade for Ely is the missing piece for a championship. I can't honestly believe that you really feel like that. Ely might be a decent (i.e. average) player, but he is not going to be the deciding factor of whether we win a title or not. Hell, outside of a "star" player, nobody we pick up will be the deciding factor.

Actually I was commenting on Nash's comments after the quote in the first thread, but more specifically to Phill11's post, so I think my comments were right on target. I don't believe my comments were anti-Sarver at all. I was just posting I have a show me attitude in response to a couple of posters comments. I want to see how the roster moves play out.

Your the only one using inflammatory language such as... "Sarver is a cheap bastard."

Trying to stir the pot?

And yes, I do think a quality role player such as Ely could help make the difference in the Suns winning a Championship.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure what is expected of Sarver at this point. David Griffin may have suggested the Suns couldn't afford Ely, but we don't really know what the deal was supposed to be. The very fact that Grif was talking suggests they aren't just sitting around waiting for the waiver wire to fill up.

The bizzare part of the Sarver bashing is that there is a lot less evidence he's really messed things up than BC did over the last several years of the Colangelo ownership. Yes, BC won executive of the year, but prior to Sarver taking over he was batting no better than 50%.

1. Trades Bo Outlaw and Big Jake for Brevin Knight, then trades Knight for Jahidi White to replace Jake but requires a prime lottery pick to unload White.

2. Uses two first round picks to unload Googs.

3. Signs Marbury to a zillion dollar deal and unloads him soon afterword.

4. Passes on several good players including Boris Diaw to take Zarko and takes Casey over Prince.

This is just recent stuff. Prior to that there is the whole McDyess fiasco, signing Hardaway with a history of injuries to a horrible contract, signing Longley, etc.

Comparatively, what has Sarver done to match the botch jobs that BC had us suffer through? I'm not saying he won't make mistakes, everyone does. I'm just saying is that either through luck or skill, his results have been above average. Unfortunately, success is not enough to get people off his back.

George, your absolutely right. I'm old enough to remember most of the botched moves made not only by BC but JC as well. As I recall, JC even took a crack at coaching the Suns. I don't think Sarver would ever go that far.

I really think JC learned most of his NBA smarts from experience and of course, fondly, Cotton. Actually, I think Sarver has done just fine as an owner of the Suns these past two seasons. I just hope he knows how fleeting are the chances to win a NBA Championship. I know long time fans are acutely aware of how hard it is to get in position to win a Championship. I know I have been waiting since the birth of this franchise. The Suns are in position now.

 

[BC867]

I know long time fans are acutely aware of how hard it is to get in position to win a Championship. I know I have been waiting since the birth of this franchise. The Suns are in position now.

Even Bryan took a shot at Dad, while he was here, saying that the Suns have always been known as a "soft" team. Not only did he part company with Sarver, he parted company with Jerry.

Yes, some of us have been waiting a long time for the team with the NBA's 3rd best regular season record during their existence (as I read recently) to step up and be strong in post-season play.

The Cinderella triple-overtime year vs. the Celtics; the year we should have beaten the Sonics but went small at Center; the potential dynasty of Walter Davis/Dennis Johnson/Larry Nancy/Mo Lucas/James Edwards; and the Barkley years when "Franchise" and "Franchise, Jr." were more interested in individual recognition than a Championship.

We're so close now, if Amare returns at 90% of his form. And the team rounds out a little bit more.

 

[Chaplin]

Actually I was commenting on Nash's comments after the quote in the first thread, but more specifically to Phill11's post, so I think my comments were right on target. I don't believe my comments were anti-Sarver at all. I was just posting I have a show me attitude in response to a couple of posters comments. I want to see how the roster moves play out.

Your the only one using inflammatory language such as... "Sarver is a cheap bastard."

Trying to stir the pot?

And yes, I do think a quality role player such as Ely could help make the difference in the Suns winning a Championship.

My post wasn't against you per se, more like in support of some of what you say. That's why I referred directly to Nash's post. Sorry if you felt otherwise, I had an idea you might after I wrote it. Sorry about that.

 

[Mainstreet]

My post wasn't against you per se, more like in support of some of what you say. That's why I referred directly to Nash's post. Sorry if you felt otherwise, I had an idea you might after I wrote it. Sorry about that.

We're on the same team Chaplin. We just need a good celebration after the Suns win a Championship.

 

[Chaplin]

We're on the same team Chaplin. We just need a good celebration after the Suns win a Championship.

That's what I keep telling all the Anti-Sarverites!

 

[Mainstreet]

Even Bryan took a shot at Dad, while he was here, saying that the Suns have always been known as a "soft" team. Not only did he part company with Sarver, he parted company with Jerry.

Yes, some of us have been waiting a long time for the team with the NBA's 3rd best regular season record during their existence (as I read recently) to step up and be strong in post-season play.

The Cinderella triple-overtime year vs. the Celtics; the year we should have beaten the Sonics but went small at Center; the potential dynasty of Walter Davis/Dennis Johnson/Larry Nancy/Mo Lucas/James Edwards; and the Barkley years when "Franchise" and "Franchise, Jr." were more interested in individual recognition than a Championship.

We're so close now, if Amare returns at 90% of his form. And the team rounds out a little bit more.

Also losing the coin flips for Kareem and David Robinson didn't help.

Keep the hope. I see you have some memories.

 

[Nash]

We're on the same team Chaplin. We just need a good celebration after the Suns win a Championship.

task no.1 for Chaplin - get a sense of humor. know its pretty hard for you, you can try though. be it the chat room or elsewhere, you're the resident killjoy.
You don't have to take every comment seriously and go on to extrapolate that further so you can spew your homer comments.

well, perhaps you miss having cheese light your rear afire and had to take it out elsewhere.

 

[Chaplin]

task no.1 for Chaplin - get a sense of humor. know its pretty hard for you, you can try though. be it the chat room or elsewhere, you're the resident killjoy.
You don't have to take every comment seriously and go on to extrapolate that further so you can spew your homer comments.

well, perhaps you miss having cheese light your rear afire and had to take it out elsewhere.

Don't be so naive. You write a comment about Sarver's cheapness, expect a response. Sure, you attempted humor, that's not lost on me, but humor or not, you still said that Sarver was cheap.

And because I don't agree that he is cheap, I'm a homer? I guess I'm a homer then. Good thing you're not a homer, eh? You must hate the Suns... Ooops, that's too serious. After all, I don't have a sense of humor.

 

[fordronken]

4. Passes on several good players including Boris Diaw to take Zarko and takes Casey over Prince.

Bashing late first round picks is just silly. How many GMs were idiots for passing on Josh Howard?

 

[George O'Brien]

Bashing late first round picks is just silly. How many GMs were idiots for passing on Josh Howard?

My point is that while the team has made some odd moves like trading the 27 for cash, it is no worse than taking pick that failed. Yet Sarver gets bashed over and over for not taking a guy they did not expect to even make the roster.

BC clearly passed on some guys who could have helped when he took Zarko and gets a free pass simply because he drafted somebody. Sarver's group gets ragged simply because they knew there wasn't someone they wanted. The line of argument used is something like, "well if you had a better draft scouting organization, you wouldn't have to trade out" - which is a total cop out.

In any case, the anti-Sarver faction refuses to believe the Suns management team didn't see anyone they liked and contend it was just a desire for the $3 million paid for pick. Somehow this becomes evidence that a team with roughly $60 million in salaries is cheap.

 

[SweetD]

um he spends his money on payroll. But you are right, the finger was probably free....

I know for a fact he buys a new foam finger every game and also buys 2-3 new jerseys every game and he doesn't use his discount!

 

[Nash]

I know for a fact he buys a new foam finger every game and also buys 2-3 new jerseys every game and he doesn't use his discount!

no way! you don't SAYYYYY...

 

[Errntknght]

George, "Sarver's group gets ragged simply because they knew there wasn't someone they wanted. The line of argument used is something like, "well if you had a better draft scouting organization, you wouldn't have to trade out" - which is a total cop out."

I think I'm the only one that has used the poor scouting organization argument but you forget that when I did it, I said that draft avoidance went back several years - to the demise of Percudani circa 2002. So that means it is not an anti-Sarver argument. Thus far, I'm happy to have Sarver as the team owner... I said for a dozen years that the Suns needed a good dose of non-Colanglo influence so its going to take a lot more than some cost consciousness to turn me against Sarver.

You can label my faulting of the draft organization as a 'total cop out' if you wish but I will continue to do as long as the Suns persist in shedding their picks like so much excess baggage. I have and will continue to read that as them not having confidence in their draft organization. Frankly, I have no idea what you mean by calling it a cop out argument - all I can think it means is that you have no meaningful counter argument so you toss that out.

 

[Chaplin]

You can label my faulting of the draft organization as a 'total cop out' if you wish but I will continue to do as long as the Suns persist in shedding their picks like so much excess baggage. I have and will continue to read that as them not having confidence in their draft organization. Frankly, I have no idea what you mean by calling it a cop out argument - all I can think it means is that you have no meaningful counter argument so you toss that out.

I have been one to give the benefit of the doubt to the front office in regards to the draft (although the botching of the pick that could have been Igoudala or Deng is close to unforgivable), but next year will be the make-or-break year for this team, IMO. I've always thought our drafting has been above average (like you said, this is probably a Percudani result), but with the theoretical quality of next year's draft and the fact that we have potentially 3 picks, it's going to be a huge summer for us--considering (as long as we sign Diaw long-term) we won't be in the market for high-priced veteran talent. Our whole summer next year will revolve around the draft, unlike this summer.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I am open minded on Sarver and think he is one fo the 15 best owners in the NBA. But he ain't in the top 5 either. Keep a draft pick once and awhile and quickly sign up obvious talent like JJ and Diaw and I'll put you ahead of other guys who spend whatever money it takes to win.

Anti-Sarver rhetoric!!? Chap - you crack me up. Sarver's addition has been a good one for our team so far thats undeniable. But i think many people are used to the Colangelo way of doing things like over spending when necesarry and not acting like an a$$. I'm looking at this strictly from a owner perspective meaning i don't penalize JC for trying to get a guy like Gugliotta after losing McDyess or giving Danny Manning money. Sarver got lucky when his people recommended Nash and Diaw and JC was always tring to win its just his gambles rarely paid off (Barkley being the exception)

Everyone points to how successful the Suns have been since Sarver took over but i attribute that exponentially more to the head coach. His system needed Nash. His system valued players like Diaw. His system makes players want to come here. Sarver is just signing the checks and has done it fairly well. I like Sarver and am happy to have him but hes not as great as some of you make him to be. And the longer Diaw is not locked up the further my opinion begins to fall....

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I have been one to give the benefit of the doubt to the front office in regards to the draft (although the botching of the pick that could have been Igoudala or Deng is close to unforgivable), but next year will be the make-or-break year for this team, IMO. I've always thought our drafting has been above average (like you said, this is probably a Percudani result), but with the theoretical quality of next year's draft and the fact that we have potentially 3 picks, it's going to be a huge summer for us--considering (as long as we sign Diaw long-term) we won't be in the market for high-priced veteran talent. Our whole summer next year will revolve around the draft, unlike this summer.

I agree the draft will be relatively important next year but i think the off season will revolve around if Diaw re-signs and what we get back for Marion....