For all who don't think the REFS cannot be rigged

[Cards_Campos]

Please someone here give me a logical explanation for the Patriots to have been given the ball last night on the Colts onside kick.
Not one time during that process did the Patriots even have possession of the ball. How could the REFS give the ball to the Patriots when A the COlt guy had the ball when they uncovered everyone and 2 the replays showed the ball squirting out and the Dude from the COlts who had the ball at the end ....landed on the ball!?!?!?! How can you ever give that ball to the Patriots and how was that play so brushed under the rug?!?! Not one explanation other than they couldnt prove from the replay BULL%^%$ The guy who had the ball at the end was clearly seen landing all the ball when it squirted out on replay. What braniac needed more information???? Its the Patriots and they get BS calls and the REFS help them because you can't logically explain that. Because not 1 time did it look like a Patriot had it!!

 

[Cards_Campos]

Use the same logic and the Cardinals should have been given the ball against the Rams when 4 Cardinals landed on the ball....But this time the refs pulled everyone out and said Rams ball. Yesterday they pulled people off and said Patriots ball and a Patriot never had it!!! Use logic and tell me if it matters who the team is?

 

[Iceman]

Please someone here give me a logical explanation for the Patriots to have been given the ball last night on the Colts onside kick.
Not one time during that process did the Patriots even have possession of the ball. How could the REFS give the ball to the Patriots when A the COlt guy had the ball when they uncovered everyone and 2 the replays showed the ball squirting out and the Dude from the COlts who had the ball at the end ....landed on the ball!?!?!?! How can you ever give that ball to the Patriots and how was that play so brushed under the rug?!?! Not one explanation other than they couldnt prove from the replay BULL%^%$ The guy who had the ball at the end was clearly seen landing all the ball when it squirted out on replay. What braniac needed more information???? Its the Patriots and they get BS calls and the REFS help them because you can't logically explain that. Because not 1 time did it look like a Patriot had it!!

Reminds me of the John Brown fumble yesterday. He clearly had the ball and it showed on the replay. But, they let it be decided on all the Steelers grinding away at the ball. No way they were going to give it back to Az being that it was in Pitt

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yes, the refs sucked.

You just have to outplay the refs sometimes. Its not the first, nor the last game where the refs will try to do what they can to get a team a victory.

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Yesterday was bad, but no where near this game. This game was the worst I had ever seen. Romo fumbled three times. The refs called the tuck rule on a would be safety, a "we blew the whistle" on another fumble, and I believe an incomplete pass that never went forward. And that was just the B.S. they called for Romo.

Cardinals won anyway, as they should have done yesterday.

 

[Rivercard]

It's hard to believe that refs are rigging games, but they certainly appear to be incompetent and the reviewing "process" is highly flawed. I just wish they were incompetent in the Cardinals favor more often.

 

[Russ Smith]

Reminds me of the John Brown fumble yesterday. He clearly had the ball and it showed on the replay. But, they let it be decided on all the Steelers grinding away at the ball. No way they were going to give it back to Az being that it was in Pitt

See I think they got that call right, but for the wrong reasons. They weren't even looking at the right thing.

The rule is when the runners helmet comes off, the play is dead, to protect the runner. What they should have been looking at was did John Brown still have the ball when his helmet came off or not. Watching it on replay I'm pretty sure he had already fumbled when the helmet came off. Harrisons tackle knocked the ball loose and the follow through knocked the helmet off. So at the point where the helmet came off, Brown is no longer a runner he didn't have the ball. I don't think they ever even considered that which is part of what ARians was protesting.

Then the 2nd thing to look at is possession, Brown was on top of the ball, that is the ball was under him, but he didn't have possession. Lying on top is not possession, it wasn't in his hands or grasped. During the scrum presumably a Steeler got the ball(they never really showed) and that's what they ruled.

In the Pats game last night the Colts player came out with the ball, the pats player had the ball underneath him, no possession, and the Colts came out. It should have been the identical call as in our game, the guy who actually got the ball gets it, the Colts. But they blew the call, I'm pretty sure that will eventually be what we're told by the NFL, they missed the call.

I think that was actually the right call in our game and the wrong call in the pats.

 

[CtCardinals78]

It's hard to believe that refs are rigging games, but they certainly appear to be incompetent and the reviewing "process" is highly flawed. I just wish they were incompetent in the Cardinals favor more often.

It's easy for me to believe, as rigged officiating could absolutely drive the outcome of games more than any other professional sport in the US other than basketball. It's a multi-billion dollar business with huge tv markets and interesting story lines. It's easier to believe than not believe IMO.

 

[Rivercard]

It's easy for me to believe, as rigged officiating could absolutely drive the outcome of games more than any other professional sport in the US other than basketball. It's a multi-billion dollar business with huge tv markets and interesting story lines. It's easier to believe than not believe IMO.

Yeah, it certainly makes sense. But the NFL would stand to lose big if cheating were discovered, so you'd think the risk would outweigh the reward. If it were happening eventually someone would rat it out, or incriminating emails/communications would surface.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

The whole concept to me comes down to how the persons reviewing the play interpret the NFL sentence, "The referee must see "incontrovertible visual evidence" for a call to be overturned.

In the play in question and the way I would interpret the rule, the replays clearly showed that there was no evidence that anyone ever had possession of the ball except the Colt player who ended up with it. Result of replay using visual evidence is Colt's Ball.

Part of the problem is that the refs on the field should use the same criteria. Not one ref could honestly say they ever saw a Patriot in possession of the ball. They mistakenly ruled Pats possession based solely on what they felt was their instinct to what might have happened. IF they applied the same criteria to their call as the replay official, they too would have had to give the ball to the Colts for they had no evidence otherwise than "hearsee". (Hearsee = when without completely seeing an event you allow your imagination to fill in the missing portions and present it as truth)

The refs on the field supposed it should have been the Pats and the replay official contrary to anything he saw, ruled the same. The only thing either knew as a fact was that the Colt player ended up with the ball. But neither wanted to accept that fact over hearsee. They all would be laughed out of a court of law, imo.

The mind is a funny thing and is something refs have to be at odds with in many situations. Everyone's mind wants to instantly fill in the gaps with logic of things it doesn't quit get all the information on to process completely. It is simply nature at work to its ultimate refinement. We all do that constantly in every day situations. Even days, weeks, and years later we remember an event like we saw it clearly and completely, when in fact some of what we remember was simply supplied by our imagination and logic as to what probably, most likely, or even what we wished had happened. It is often impossible to separate what we did actually see and what our imagination filled in for us that seems most logical.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

See I think they got that call right, but for the wrong reasons. They weren't even looking at the right thing.

The rule is when the runners helmet comes off, the play is dead, to protect the runner. What they should have been looking at was did John Brown still have the ball when his helmet came off or not. Watching it on replay I'm pretty sure he had already fumbled when the helmet came off. Harrisons tackle knocked the ball loose and the follow through knocked the helmet off. So at the point where the helmet came off, Brown is no longer a runner he didn't have the ball. I don't think they ever even considered that which is part of what ARians was protesting.

Then the 2nd thing to look at is possession, Brown was on top of the ball, that is the ball was under him, but he didn't have possession. Lying on top is not possession, it wasn't in his hands or grasped. During the scrum presumably a Steeler got the ball(they never really showed) and that's what they ruled.

In the Pats game last night the Colts player came out with the ball, the pats player had the ball underneath him, no possession, and the Colts came out. It should have been the identical call as in our game, the guy who actually got the ball gets it, the Colts. But they blew the call, I'm pretty sure that will eventually be what we're told by the NFL, they missed the call.

I think that was actually the right call in our game and the wrong call in the pats.

Not so much did Brown have the ball when his helmet came off, but did Pittsburgh have the ball when his helmet came off. Like you said, when the helmet comes off the play is dead. If no one had clear possession of the ball, it goes to original team having the ball.


As for the OP, I think you're confusing incompetence with rigging.

 

[nashman]

It's easy enough for the NFL to spin it as incompetence especially with the refs not full time employees! It's the perfect system to decide outcomes of games and then just spin it as not deliberate!

 

[MadCardDisease]

See I think they got that call right, but for the wrong reasons. They weren't even looking at the right thing.

The rule is when the runners helmet comes off, the play is dead, to protect the runner. What they should have been looking at was did John Brown still have the ball when his helmet came off or not. Watching it on replay I'm pretty sure he had already fumbled when the helmet came off. Harrisons tackle knocked the ball loose and the follow through knocked the helmet off. So at the point where the helmet came off, Brown is no longer a runner he didn't have the ball. I don't think they ever even considered that which is part of what ARians was protesting.

Then the 2nd thing to look at is possession, Brown was on top of the ball, that is the ball was under him, but he didn't have possession. Lying on top is not possession, it wasn't in his hands or grasped. During the scrum presumably a Steeler got the ball(they never really showed) and that's what they ruled.

In the Pats game last night the Colts player came out with the ball, the pats player had the ball underneath him, no possession, and the Colts came out. It should have been the identical call as in our game, the guy who actually got the ball gets it, the Colts. But they blew the call, I'm pretty sure that will eventually be what we're told by the NFL, they missed the call.

I think that was actually the right call in our game and the wrong call in the pats.

The ball was out when Harrison came in and delivered a blow with his facemask and forearm. He threw his forearm out like a punch which ended up ripping the helmet off of Browns head. It should have been an Unnecessary Roughness penalty if anything. But the ball was out before his helmet came off.

 

[Russ Smith]

Not so much did Brown have the ball when his helmet came off, but did Pittsburgh have the ball when his helmet came off. Like you said, when the helmet comes off the play is dead. If no one had clear possession of the ball, it goes to original team having the ball.


As for the OP, I think you're confusing incompetence with rigging.

No the rule is when the RUNNERS helmet comes off the play is dead. ONLY the runner. Brown had already fumbled when his helmet came off, he wasn't a runner anymore.

That's where people get confused on that it's to protect the runner so he doesn't get tackled without a helmet. There was a play 2 years ago where a guy got hit at the 3, his helmet came off and he kept running and dove in for a TD. They eventually ruled him down at the 3 where the helmet popped off because of that rule.

If Brown had still had the ball when the helmet came off, the rest of the play doesn't matter, Cards ball. I think that's what Arians wanted them to look at, he hadn't seen the replay well enough yet to know if the ball was out or not before the helmet came off.

On that play they were right to not stop the play.

 

[Russ Smith]

The ball was out when Harrison came in and delivered a blow with his facemask and forearm. He threw his forearm out like a punch which ended up ripping the helmet off of Browns head. It should have been an Unnecessary Roughness penalty if anything. But the ball was out before his helmet came off.

yes see my other posts, he fumbled first so he's not a runner when the helmet came off.

I'm not sure if they call that roughing or not, on a QB absolutely, on a RB or WR not so much. He knocked the ball out but in his follow through he knocked the helmet off. I'm not sure the rule there but I'm not surprised they didn't call it.

I think Arians was upset about 2 things, he wanted them to review the helmet off to see if Brown still had the ball when it came off, and he was complaining about the hit by Harrison. I don't think he was ever really disputing who came up with the ball.

 

[MadCardDisease]

yes see my other posts, he fumbled first so he's not a runner when the helmet came off.

I'm not sure if they call that roughing or not, on a QB absolutely, on a RB or WR not so much. He knocked the ball out but in his follow through he knocked the helmet off. I'm not sure the rule there but I'm not surprised they didn't call it.

I think Arians was upset about 2 things, he wanted them to review the helmet off to see if Brown still had the ball when it came off, and he was complaining about the hit by Harrison. I don't think he was ever really disputing who came up with the ball.

I watched the replay on NFL.com and you can clearly see Harrison extending his forearm out to deliver a massive blow which ends up knocking off Browns helmet. Adrian Wilson used to called on that towards the end of his career when they changed the rules for player safety.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Of course we still had chances to win the game but when the refs time after time assault only one team in the game with phantom calls and non calls, it gives the other team more chances. It is crap and it needs to stop. Sick and tired of having my team have to play perfect with their chances when the other team is given multiple chances increasing their percentage to win!

 

[Sandan]

Yeah, it certainly makes sense. But the NFL would stand to lose big if cheating were discovered, so you'd think the risk would outweigh the reward. If it were happening eventually someone would rat it out, or incriminating emails/communications would surface.

Cheating or rigging is not required.

Imagine if you will post game reviews with officials

"Why did you make that judgment call that gave the Cowboys/Steelers/Patriots the Ball" - Answer "Because in my judgement that was the right call - Response "Ok"

or

"Why did you make that judgment call that gave the Cardinals/Lions/Jets the Ball" - Answer "Because in my judgement that was the right call - Response "Well your judgment clearly is not good, we will have to monitor you progress"

If an official gets beat up enough times they get the message without being told. Screw over big money teams and we will yell at you, screw over the others no big deal

 

[Jetstream Green]

Cheating or rigging is not required.

Imagine if you will post game reviews with officials

"Why did you make that judgment call that gave the Cowboys/Steelers/Patriots the Ball" - Answer "Because in my judgement that was the right call - Response "Ok"

or

"Why did you make that judgment call that gave the Cardinals/Lions/Jets the Ball" - Answer "Because in my judgement that was the right call - Response "Well your judgment clearly is not good, we will have to monitor you progress"

If an official gets beat up enough times they get the message without being told. Screw over big money teams and we will yell at you, screw over the others no big deal

This

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

**** the NFL...

 

[Rivercard]

http://www.footballzebras.com

Here's an interesting website regarding the performances of the refs.

 

[CardNots]

Of course we still had chances to win the game but when the refs time after time assault only one team in the game with phantom calls and non calls, it gives the other team more chances. It is crap and it needs to stop. Sick and tired of having my team have to play perfect with their chances when the other team is given multiple chances increasing their percentage to win!

Thoughts of mine, +1

 

[Cheesebeef]

Of course we still had chances to win the game but when the refs time after time assault only one team in the game with phantom calls and non calls, it gives the other team more chances. It is crap and it needs to stop. Sick and tired of having my team have to play perfect with their chances when the other team is given multiple chances increasing their percentage to win!

lol... having to play "perfect". we turned the ball over THREE TIMES, missed a FG, got a stupid penalty to take us out of another FG, threw TDs in the dirt, threw AN AWFUL pick into double coverage at the end of the game and the defense allowed a 3rd String QB to score on 5 consecutive drives. they didn't have to play perfect... they had to play AVERAGE and they win that game. Same thing with the Rams game.

 

[cardncubfan]

Of course we still had chances to win the game but when the refs time after time assault only one team in the game with phantom calls and non calls, it gives the other team more chances. It is crap and it needs to stop. Sick and tired of having my team have to play perfect with their chances when the other team is given multiple chances increasing their percentage to win!

+1,000,000

 

[CtCardinals78]

Yeah, it certainly makes sense. But the NFL would stand to lose big if cheating were discovered, so you'd think the risk would outweigh the reward. If it were happening eventually someone would rat it out, or incriminating emails/communications would surface.

Not necessarily, leaks can be contained with strong non-disclosure agreements and if even if leaks did emerge look no further than what happened in pro soccer where match fixing problems are routinely investigated, even at the FIFA level, including looking at the referees, yet the sports remains as popular as ever.

 

[ajcardfan]

I'm not aware of any logic as to why the NFL would've been favoring the Pats over the Colts. The Pats and the NFL don't like each other very much right now. If they were out to favor a team, I think it would've been the Colts.

Bad calls every game, some worse than others, and with the instant coverage the NFL gets every fan who cares to, nationwide, knows within minutes a botched call has been made. Whether they are watching that game or not.