Forget 40 times, follow your eyeballs!

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
In college Big ran a 5.1. In training camp at Texas he ran with the running backs. No joke.

Casey Hampton and Shaun Rogers both ran at 5.2 at over 310 pounds each.

Suggs is slow. There isn't a whole lot a gray area.
If we're gambling with the #6 pick that he can buck the trend like Jerry Rice did, then I think we're complete fools.


http://www.draftbook.com/2001/leonarddavis.html

http://cbs.sportsline.com/u/football/nfl/2001/draft/profiles/leonarddavis.htm

Do you still not believe that Big ran a 5.26 Forty, Krang? Because you sounded pretty confident before with the little salvo you sent my way....

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by SECTION 11
Do you still not believe that Big ran a 5.26 Forty, Krang? Because you sounded pretty confident before with the little salvo you sent my way....

What I meant: On the football field Suggs would run circles around Davis. I will stand by that statement.

This isn't track, this is football.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

why can't you guys accept the fact that Sugg's 40 time is of concern?THe Bears and Texans totally dropped him from consideration after those times.Why is he too slow for them but not the Cards?The 40 time does make a difference.1/10 of a second is alot in a 40.It's the difference in making a tackle and one going the distance.I agree it's not the end all evaluation of a player but it does merit consideration.Suggs' 10 and 20 yard times also were nothing to write home about.He may turn out to be a great player.But to defend him based solely on his college production and not pay any attention to potential shortcomings is being very un-realistic.Alot of the same people who discount Suggs' time now praise Robertson because he ran 4.7 at 300+ pounds and wasn't nearly as productive in college.You can't have it both ways.Archie Griffin won 2 heismans in college.Based on that he should've been the number 1 overall pick using the productivity theory.WEll,he was just too slow for the NFL.The same thing could happen to Suggs.I'm not saying it will but the 40 is a red flag.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
why can't you guys accept the fact that Sugg's 40 time is of concern?THe Bears and Texans totally dropped him from consideration after those times.Why is he too slow for them but not the Cards?The 40 time does make a difference.1/10 of a second is alot in a 40.It's the difference in making a tackle and one going the distance.I agree it's not the end all evaluation of a player but it does merit consideration.Suggs' 10 and 20 yard times also were nothing to write home about.He may turn out to be a great player.But to defend him based solely on his college production and not pay any attention to potential shortcomings is being very un-realistic.Alot of the same people who discount Suggs' time now praise Robertson because he ran 4.7 at 300+ pounds and wasn't nearly as productive in college.You can't have it both ways.Archie Griffin won 2 heismans in college.Based on that he should've been the number 1 overall pick using the productivity theory.WEll,he was just too slow for the NFL.The same thing could happen to Suggs.I'm not saying it will but the 40 is a red flag.

Robertson WAS productive. He had 50 tackles and 5 sacks, playing on a line with no other NFL prospects and facing double teams (according to scouts who watched a lot of film on him) more than any player in the nation.

Fans don't make players top ten picks, scouts do. You can argue until you are blue in the face, but NFL teams like Suggs no matter how bad his 40 time was. The tapes don't lie.

I think it is a concern, but only a minor one. Suggs certainly didn't look too slow on his way to amassing 24 sacks and 30 tackles for a loss.

The Texans dropped him on their draft board because like many true defensive ends, he can't play OLB (which one of his teammates that I talked to said was a joke that teams were even considering that). The Bears could still draft him as well as the Cowboys....

 

[JeffGollin]

why can't you guys accept the fact that Sugg's 40 time is of concern?
To who? You? The beat writers? The national media? So far, Mike Golic has said: "Don't worry about the forty time. Gil Brandt has said: " Don't worry about the forty time." Dennis Green has said: "Don't worry about the forty time." And I believe Mac has made similar statements.

These are all football guys first.

So I ask you again: Who's it a concern to?

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Obviously the first 5 teams drafting are concerned.Otherwise they'd be considering him for their pick.Of course it's no concern to those guys,they aren't drafting him.Golic,i'm sure,ran a quick 40 time.Dennis Green never had a defense that could stop anyone.And i didn't even know Gil Brandt was still alive.What is he,103?Now if Tony Dungy,Bil Bellichick,Marvin Lewis or some other top notch defensive coaches said not too worry about the 40 time then it would have some merit.

 

[Solar7]

If you can give me any solid evidence that Suggs is no longer an option on the Bears' and Cowboys' draft boards, I'd like to see it. Short of what they're saying, there's no way to tell. The entire draft is a smokescreen up to this point. The Cardinals could be coveting Leftwich, for all we know. But really, Suggs is still viewed as a top prospect in this draft, certainly moreso than anyone who should be around after at least #11.

--Solar

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Obviously the first 5 teams drafting are concerned.Otherwise they'd be considering him for their pick.Of course it's no concern to those guys,they aren't drafting him.Golic,i'm sure,ran a quick 40 time.Dennis Green never had a defense that could stop anyone.And i didn't even know Gil Brandt was still alive.What is he,103?Now if Tony Dungy,Bil Bellichick,Marvin Lewis or some other top notch defensive coaches said not too worry about the 40 time then it would have some merit.

Hahahahahaha! I just read an article where Dungy said to not be concerned about 40 times! I can't find it at this moment, but trust me he said it.

 

[kerouac9]

I think that point is that, at the end of the season and through the Combine, Suggs was considered a Top 3 pick, and a potential #1 overall. After his first workout didn't present mind-blowing numbers, his stock slipped a little.

The question then became whether he's a Top 5 prospect or a Top 10 prospect. There's a huge difference between the three tiers at the top of the draft.

If someone gets him at #8, it makes their draft grade an A. At number six, that's about the place where he belongs.

For what it's worth, basically the same thing goes for Leftwich and his injuries.

 

[earthsci]

Jeez Louis, before Suggs workouts we were all hoping that he would tank so he would fall to us. Well he did and now he's not good enough?