Former Card resigns because he refuses to 'cheerlead' for the sport which is linked to ALS, CTE, etc

[BigRedRage]

Agreed lets be real. So please SissyBoyFloyd, stop reading right here as if I am talking to you personally. I am going to reply to this comment, and you do whatever you feel is right, but below, that is my rant on this topic, because I find this current witch-hunt to be a very shallow situation in regards to saying this is all in the name of "health at your profession." Your post above is well written, and I respect it but the topic is about 3+ years old now, and I personally am tired of the illogical P.C. crapola that has been put out about it.

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Yup. Because no other sports have injuries or brain injuries. right ? Might as well get rid of rugby, hockey, MMA, boxing, basketball, lacrosse, and wrestling too. You ever see what can happen to people playing those sports ? That "multitude" of sports you mention is going to slim down, considerably. But, hey there are always video games right? They are healthy and safe right ?

And why stop at sports, what about obesity then ? Are we going to take on the "be proud of your body" movement, because obesity is just as dangerous to people ?

If we are REALLY, REALLY concerned about people's health does that mean we will stick to the 40 hr work week, create universal free health care for all, have nurses at every job to measure blood pressure, and heart rates, make sure all people have a standard of living to receive top nutrition, and ban anything and all things deemed "bad for you health".

Because if you say "Ban Football! And you should feel bad about yourself for even watching it." I sure hope to hell those same people are INFURIATED there is no universal health care, angry at the labor laws, besides themselves about income inequality. Because if they are not then this guilt trip they are putting on people who watch and support football is nothing more than a convenient truth for some reason, that I could not tell you for the life of me, that has nothing to do with "player safety".

Because I will say this, when I see someone get hurt in football, I care. I care as much as the police man who got injured, or the fireman, or the person that just tripped fell and hurt themselves, I care for any person who is hurt and suffering as much as one can in this world. To imply I and other football fans do not is a complete assumption, and guilt trip tactics.

So, yes, if someone thinks I am a "bad person" for enjoying contact sports. I am fine with it. There opinion means very little, to nothing, to me in the end so they are free to enjoy their hoiler than thou attitude, that I find to be ridiculously idealistic, and unrealistic.

I care more about letting these players make their own choices about what they want to do with their lives, and what opportunities we take on. Singling out football is an example of a convenient truth at its finest. You know why football is being singled out ? Because there is money in it to sue the league, and because people like it. And if there is one thing people in America LOVE to do is be a wet blanket, and ruin what they see other people enjoy that they do not understand.

So, if Ed Cunningham, and anyone else wants to stop watching football. GO RIGHT AHEAD. Just do not strain yourself patting yourselves on the back about it. Just do not take the opportunity of others away, or my choice to watch whatever I deem fit for my entertainment in the process. Because if we want to start playing the game where we are going to decide the good and bad of everything on this planet, and rip down, destroy, and irradicate from the face of the earth whatever is deemed "bad" in the court of public opinion, then you better hope what you find to be your "pursuit of happiness" is not next on the list.

Call that rant straw manning, off topic, ridiculous, or whatever you want. That is my thoughts on this ridiculous witch-hunt, and convenient truth to public safety of our countrymen.

It is one thing that people have an opinion about is, but I will be damned if I sit here and have people brow beat, and shame football fans, while there is SO MANY OTHER cases of complete disregard for human safety out there. All I see this now is a witch-hunt mixed with people looking to be holier than thou.

Signed, A man who payed money to play a contact sport for 15 years, and has no issue taking responsibility for my choices and living with the repercussions of the damage done to my body, both inside and out. I would not have traded those years, and experiences for anything in my life, and I feel we would cheat people to deprived them to have the choice to do the same. Judge me all you want, but I NEED an outlet, and especially in my younger years. And I can tell you, I am at a point in my life right now where I cannot play contact sports, and there is a void, a void that nothing can fill, because there is something about contact sports that fills an instinct, a need for violence, what ever have you. If you do not have that need, I understand, but just try and respect that while I may not know how you feel and why you would not want to go out on a rugby field, that you respect that you may not understand why I do need to go out on that field, and that is my pursuit of happiness. Its not like I am just tackling people at random in the street. I am going to an organized situation with a group of people that made their own decision to go out and play a sport where we are going to beat up each other a little bit, and then go drink and laugh about it. Its great. You may not think so, but it is for me.

OK. I am done with my rant. Fire away, since those are some strong opinions, and controversial ones at that, so I am sure to catch fire for it. And again, all respect to SissyBoyFloyd, just using the topic, nothing personal to him, and completely understand his side of the situation. Just making my own case.

end thread

 

[Finito]

I think the talent pool is so diluted due to all the belts. It does not lead to making great fights. The thing that has happened is that the American heavy weight talent pool is weak. They say the next great American heavy weight is playing TE in The NFL.

The heavyweight division has historically been very weak. Talent is talent and it's there in boxing from Chocolatito to Anthony Joshua honestly it's as good as it's ever been

 

[WisconsinCard]

The heavyweight division has historically been very weak. Talent is talent and it's there in boxing from Chocolatito to Anthony Joshua honestly it's as good as it's ever been

Don't know how old you are but the 60s, 70s, and most of the 80s heavy weight boxing was stacked with talent. Anyone of the top 15 ranked would be champs today.

 

[JeffGollin]

There was a reference in the headline to a link to ALS & brain injury, but no mention of it in the meat of the article.

I've read of a possible causal relationship between ALS, insecticie/herbicide, artificial turf and practice field conditions at the Niner facility a few decades ago (plus a bunch of other possible causes) but nothing's been proved and we still haven't discovered a definite linkage.

More than a few people close to me (but not related to each other - as far as I can determine) have succumbed to ALS so I have a very personal reason for asking.

 

[Finito]

Don't know how old you are but the 60s, 70s, and most of the 80s heavy weight boxing was stacked with talent. Anyone of the top 15 ranked would be champs today.

I'm 35 and used to cover Boxing for Fox Sports and Boxingscene. The Name Finito comes from one of my all time favorites in Ricardo Lopez.

That's actually very wrong. There have been 2 noted "Golden Eras" in the Heavyweight division that's the 70s with ALI, Frazier, Foreman and the 90s with Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson.

The 60s had Sonny Liston and a young Clay came on to the scene but other than those two no real all time greats that were in there prime. Liston beat up Paterson but he was a fading champ and very small at the time. Ali's biggest win outside of Liston in the 60s came against probably Ernie Terell I mean tough guy but by no means an all time great.

The 80s were God awful maybe the single worst decade in the history of the division. You had Larry Holmes dominate a bunch of average guys then Tyson came and dominated a bunch of below average guys. Some tough guys for Holmes like Cooney and Norton but that's what they were tough guys not the most talented.

Hell Mike Tyson won the belt off Trevor Berbick for Christ sakes.

And no no they would not be champions today. Anthony Joshua is an Olympic Gold Medalist who's 6'5 240lbs and skilled as all hell. I suggest you watch some heavyweight Boxing cause it's really good right now, Joshua, Deontay Wilder, Luis Ortiz, Jospeh Parker just to name a few all young undefeated knockout artist. Just because it's not covered the way it used to be doesn't mean it's not there

Sorry for going left on this one

 

[devilalum]

This isn't going away.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I an actually a boxing official for the Wisconsin State athletic commission. So in your opinion oh hell I'm not going to list them all but Thomas, Weaver, Witherspoon, Tyson, Holmes, holyfield were all better I'm than Joshua. Time Will tell her does have the pedigree. I say the champs today are a product of how bad it is.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Oh so I suggest your suggestion for me to watch sine boxing might be misguided. I used to listen to boxing on the radio with my dad in the 60s. Also boxed golden gloves and in the Navy over 150 fights. So I've been around a long time. Maybe a young hot shot can learn from an old timer.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Football won't die. But over time talent will dilute, as it did in boxing, if they can't resolve the brain problem. And it is a real problem.

Take the helmet out of the game.

 

[Matt L]

I'm 35 and used to cover Boxing for Fox Sports and Boxingscene. The Name Finito comes from one of my all time favorites in Ricardo Lopez.

That's actually very wrong. There have been 2 noted "Golden Eras" in the Heavyweight division that's the 70s with ALI, Frazier, Foreman and the 90s with Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe and Tyson.

The 60s had Sonny Liston and a young Clay came on to the scene but other than those two no real all time greats that were in there prime. Liston beat up Paterson but he was a fading champ and very small at the time. Ali's biggest win outside of Liston in the 60s came against probably Ernie Terell I mean tough guy but by no means an all time great.

The 80s were God awful maybe the single worst decade in the history of the division. You had Larry Holmes dominate a bunch of average guys then Tyson came and dominated a bunch of below average guys. Some tough guys for Holmes like Cooney and Norton but that's what they were tough guys not the most talented.

Hell Mike Tyson won the belt off Trevor Berbick for Christ sakes.

And no no they would not be champions today. Anthony Joshua is an Olympic Gold Medalist who's 6'5 240lbs and skilled as all hell. I suggest you watch some heavyweight Boxing cause it's really good right now, Joshua, Deontay Wilder, Luis Ortiz, Jospeh Parker just to name a few all young undefeated knockout artist. Just because it's not covered the way it used to be doesn't mean it's not there

Sorry for going left on this one

How are these fights broadcasted? are they on cable or pay per view?

 

[Syracusecards]

No one puts a gun to their heads to play football. Those who play it, even back in the day, knew the dangers. That said, this rant by this guy is hypocrisy. These are grown ass men playing a violent sport on their own accord. Case in point: I work in one of the most dangerous and stressful jobs there is. I know the risks. I know that on any given day I can get shanked in the neck. Have feces and urine thrown on me. Any given day I can be taken hostage or worse. I accept those risks and I don't whine about it when something goes down. I do my job with the notion of making sure there is minimal harm to anyone including the inmate. I also took this job knowing the long term effects, effects like the highest suicide rate of any other profession. The highest divorce rate. Highest rate of substance abuse. Knowing that the average post retirement life span is just a few years maximum. I accept those risks. So, if you're afraid of the risks of playing football, don't play it. Or if you do, don't whine about the long term effects of it. It's that simple.

This argument does not work for me. I have a hard time empathizing with you. I appreciate that you are a prison guard. That is your right to have that job but I see what you did there. Your job is statistically the most unforgiving job there is and that is the argument that you use to promote your own position on football players and the medical/neurological knowledge advancements that have helped people evolve in their decision making. Yet, you criticize and even Say "whine"...actually, you lost me there...invalid argument.

ooooh, prison guard! I thought he was describing being a dad.

 

[Dude]

I think with the rule changes things will get better. Plus IMO they should blood test them and save it. If they fail a test make it really hurt. New rules and normal sized players will help a lot.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This isn't going away.

Agreed.

If it is like most things in this country, the pendulum is going to have to swing outrageously the other way before it gets centered.

Bubble wrapped people is not out of the question.

The movie WALL-E comes to mind.

 

[vince56]

Agreed.

If it is like most things in this country, the pendulum is going to have to swing outrageously the other way before it gets centered.

Bubble wrapped people is not out of the question.

The movie WALL-E comes to mind.

I think the pendulum swung pretty damn far already. Junior Seau killed himself with a gunshot to the body, to save his brain for scientific research.

The NFL needs a solution soon, the entire sport is on the clock.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think the pendulum swung pretty damn far already. Junior Seau killed himself with a gunshot to the body, to save his brain for scientific research.

The NFL needs a solution soon, the entire sport is on the clock.

Fair enough, didn't explain myself enough.

The pendulum had started in the other direction about the time of the Junior Seau story, and is swinging in the direction of safety, it has a long ways to go, and many things to destroy in the name of safety, thus in true American fashion, it will swing very in the other direction until it gets some what balance.

The days of "rub some dirt on it" are gone, and since then a lot of work has been done to make the game safer, to let people know the risks, and to even change the game for the sake of safety.

The next question will be if the game will ever be safe enough. Much like the post 9-11 world we live in, where billions upon billions are spent on Homeland security, we locked down the airports, locked down public places, institute stereotyping laws, and create boundaries for the sake of safety, and if a terrorist act happens tomorrow, people will still be asking, "Is it enough, are we safe enough yet ?"


My opinion is posted above about all this, and while I understand your support for your belief in the situation mine differs. Reality states, you cannot eradicate everything that is bad in the world. First off, it is impossible, and second with no bad, there is no good, and without good and bad you either have nothing or meloncoly.

Again, just my two cents.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Institute rugby tackling.

I wonder if the Seahawks, who use that technique and still are touted as one of the best defenses in the league has had less concussion issues. Its not a fix but its a start.

Cam Chancellor and Earl Thomas blowing up a few guys each week is "Rugby Tackling?" I have a few close buddies who played Rugby through college and beyond, and the style I saw them use looked nothing like what I see from guys like Chancellor and Thomas... In fact, didn't Thomas get completely knocked out last year (or two seasons ago) after he landed one of his patented blow-up shots?

 

[vince56]

The next question will be if the game will ever be safe enough.

First off I absolutely agree with everything you said. Second, to this point you made, I think the game will be 'safe enough' when we can rule out true debilitating injuries. I met Eric Swann once, absolutely nice guy in person, but the dude had zig-zags for fingers. Who would ever want to live like that? Look at guys like Conrad Dobler that live in constant pain, no sport or money in the world is worth that. Now I love the game of football, and I love the physicality of the sport as well, but the research has to improve the safety of the game for it to survive. I have two young sons, and neither one is going to play even pop warner. You know why? Here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/10/football-kids-heads/504863/

I know for a lot of old-school guys I'll take flak for it, but you know what the sport is going to die if they don't fix tackling, hitting, and the helmet. It might be less 'manly' in the old-school sense, but I guarantee you I'm not the only one holding my kids out of what is otherwise a great sport.

 

[82CardsGrad]

First off I absolutely agree with everything you said. Second, to this point you made, I think the game will be 'safe enough' when we can rule out true debilitating injuries. I met Eric Swann once, absolutely nice guy in person, but the dude had zig-zags for fingers. Who would ever want to live like that? Look at guys like Conrad Dobler that live in constant pain, no sport or money in the world is worth that. Now I love the game of football, and I love the physicality of the sport as well, but the research has to improve the safety of the game for it to survive. I have two young sons, and neither one is going to play even pop warner. You know why? Here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/10/football-kids-heads/504863/

I know for a lot of old-school guys I'll take flak for it, but you know what the sport is going to die if they don't fix tackling, hitting, and the helmet. It might be less 'manly' in the old-school sense, but I guarantee you I'm not the only one holding my kids out of what is otherwise a great sport.

Injuries are a part of every sport. And in the case of football, where the emphasis of the game places human bodies in contact with each other on every play, injuries are often the most severe of any other sport.
You have 22 of the most well-conditioned, athletic freaks smashing into one another, often times at break-neck speeds. I don't care how much science is applied, you simply can't remove the risk for all types of injuries - some like you describe above in the case of Eric Swann, or, as severe as broken limbs and severe concussions.

 

[vince56]

Injuries are a part of every sport. And in the case of football, where the emphasis of the game places human bodies in contact with each other on every play, injuries are often the most severe of any other sport.
You have 22 of the most well-conditioned, athletic freaks smashing into one another, often times at break-neck speeds. I don't care how much science is applied, you simply can't remove the risk for all types of injuries - some like you describe above in the case of Eric Swann, or, as severe as broken limbs and severe concussions.

I challenge that you can't seriously lessen debilitating injuries. I think you can, and I expect research to give us alternatives in the coming years.

 

[Finito]

I an actually a boxing official for the Wisconsin State athletic commission. So in your opinion oh hell I'm not going to list them all but Thomas, Weaver, Witherspoon, Tyson, Holmes, holyfield were all better I'm than Joshua. Time Will tell her does have the pedigree. I say the champs today are a product of how bad it is.

That's great but Holmes, Tyson and Holyfield were all time great fighters not "top 15 contenders" and that's what you suggested would be champions today top 15 contenders.

Thomas? Weaver?and Witherspoon? To me honestly this just suggest the "things were better back in my day" type of fan because those guys are not better than an Anthony Joshua not even freaking close. Come on now.

 

[JeffGollin]

To simplify:

Great game (We love it).

But we've discovered some horrific byproducts.

We'd be nuts not to try to determine the causes and take the necessary steps to eliminate or neutralize I them.

In doing so, we might have to sacrifice aspects of the game we truly love.

It then becomes a matter of priorities, commitment and the wilingness to be flexible, creative and persistant if we want to achieve the best outcome.

What won't work is denying there's a problem or not caring if there is.

 

[WisconsinCard]

That's great but Holmes, Tyson and Holyfield were all time great fighters not "top 15 contenders" and that's what you suggested would be champions today top 15 contenders.

Thomas? Weaver?and Witherspoon? To me honestly this just suggest the "things were better back in my day" type of fan because those guys are not better than an Anthony Joshua not even freaking close. Come on now.

I think you made my point 3 all time greats in the 80s. Part of what you say could be true (my era), and Ill give you Joshua, but that is only one guy. Tim Witherspoon did beat Holmes, just the judges didn't see it that way. Weaver was the champ for quite awhile and took on all comers. In those days there was challengers and that made them great. Today whose going to challenge Joshua? Wilder maybe, he has a punchers chance, and Vladimir showed his chin is suspect. Who else?

 

[82CardsGrad]

I challenge that you can't seriously lessen debilitating injuries. I think you can, and I expect research to give us alternatives in the coming years.

"Research" has already proven the harmful effects of this game. Unless you believe the NFL and we, the public, are willing to accept an entirely different game, along the lines of no helmets, or no pads, or flag football... there will not be any "serious lessening" of debilitating injuries. What may happen, as was suggested earlier in this thread, is if money begins to be removed from the sport, athletes may choose other sports to play. Which won't necessarily reduce debilitating injuries necessarily, but could steadily relegate football to second-class ranking and ultimately extinction... just not in our lifetimes.

 

[Cardiac]

I was at a Firestone shop getting my car worked on and they had a network I hadn't seen before or since. Anyway they were discussing concussions and football and research to minimize concussion issues. They looked into how woodpeckers and rams can use their heads with such impact and not get injured. Turns out they can fill in the space around the brain with fluid or air (I forget which) and this keeps their brains from bouncing around and getting damaged.

They then showed a device that a player can put around their neck which forces and holds more blood into their heads which has the same effect as those animals. I haven't seen this anywhere else and maybe there are reasons why it can't be used but it does illustrate (IMO) there will be some out of the box thinking that will help reduce if not eliminate concussions. At least that is my hope.

 

[vince56]

"Research" has already proven the harmful effects of this game. Unless you believe the NFL and we, the public, are willing to accept an entirely different game, along the lines of no helmets, or no pads, or flag football... there will not be any "serious lessening" of debilitating injuries. What may happen, as was suggested earlier in this thread, is if money begins to be removed from the sport, athletes may choose other sports to play. Which won't necessarily reduce debilitating injuries necessarily, but could steadily relegate football to second-class ranking and ultimately extinction... just not in our lifetimes.

Research actually is helping. It's just slow. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/12248483/nfl-says-concussions-25-percent-year