Fossum traded for Cruz DONE DEAL

[schillingfan]

The difference between the contracts of Schilling plus the expensive scrubs we sent to the Brewers and Richie Sexson was nearly $10 Million. If they had the cash, he wouldnt have been traded. The Diamondbacks got rid of Schilling for one primary reason - salary. Keeping him was not a realistic option.

No offense, but do you simply believe everything the organization tells you?

Once they handed out RJ and Gonzo's contracts, it was obvious it would be difficult to keep Curt. But they had choices all along the way. They didn't just suddenly find themselves in that position. They gave the bad contract to Spivey that they shouldn't have. Counsell and Spivey made $5.5 between them. They gave $2 mil to Reynolds and Alomar, a total waste. Baerga made $ 1 mil and of course Dessens got $4 mil.

There were ways, there were choices made along the way that you have to hold the management responsible for.

 

[AZZenny]

I agree - all along the way, money was tossed here and there rather loosely as if there wouldn't at some point have to be hard choices - maybe they didn't think there would be, but I find it hard to fathom, given those motherload deferrals. Then we have to let Curt, Miggy, Fins go: paying the piper. The accumulating little bad decisions made the Schilling move very hard to avoid, and some of us were commenting on that as it unfolded, not just now in hindsight. That's why continued lack of fiscal restraint where it probably could be exercised bothers some fans; be nice not to have history repeat itself. Ultimately, the caliber of the team on the field will suffer for careless decisions or short-sighted planning now.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

No offense, but do you simply believe everything the organization tells you?

Once they handed out RJ and Gonzo's contracts, it was obvious it would be difficult to keep Curt. But they had choices all along the way. They didn't just suddenly find themselves in that position. They gave the bad contract to Spivey that they shouldn't have. Counsell and Spivey made $5.5 between them. They gave $2 mil to Reynolds and Alomar, a total waste. Baerga made $ 1 mil and of course Dessens got $4 mil.

There were ways, there were choices made along the way that you have to hold the management responsible for.

No offense, but do you realize that you cant see into the future?

First off, there's this thing in baseball called a "bench" where you need extra players when starters need a day off and all that. You cant just give out your entire payroll on a few guys. The Rangers tried that with Rodriguez a few years ago, and failed miserably. Spivey at $2-3 million-ish after the year he came off of would have been a bargain. Nothing wrong with giving a million to a guy that had been as successful a bench player as Baerga the year before. Alomar took a $7M paycut to play here. These were fairly low risk, high reward moves. Only pure hindsight says that these things didnt work out the way everybody thought.

"Once they handed out RJ and Gonzo's contracts, it was obvious it would be difficult to keep Curt." No kidding. But whats the difference between giving contracts to RJ and Gonzo and leaving Curt out or giving contracts to Curt and RJ or Gonzo and leaving the other one out? There certainly wasnt money for all three. We knew long before the 2003 offseason that the Diamondbacks of years prior were based on win now and pay later. Now we have to pick up the bill, but it was well worth the cost.

 

[schillingfan]

No offense, but do you realize that you cant see into the future?

Well, actually, go back and find my predictions last off-season where I said Reynolds and Alomar and Randy Choate were going to be horrible and the D-Backs would be a crummy team.

"Once they handed out RJ and Gonzo's contracts, it was obvious it would be difficult to keep Curt." No kidding. But whats the difference between giving contracts to RJ and Gonzo and leaving Curt out or giving contracts to Curt and RJ or Gonzo and leaving the other one out? There certainly wasnt money for all three. We knew long before the 2003 offseason that the Diamondbacks of years prior were based on win now and pay later. Now we have to pick up the bill, but it was well worth the cost.

But you are simply wrong. The contracts to Gonzo and RJ were handed out just prior to the 2003 season. They had nothing to do with winning now - look at the record of the 2003 season.

Joe Jr. and company made some pretty bad choices. Those choices not only resulted in a lot of other decisions. You can't just say, "well they had no choice" because the D-Backs put themselves in certain positions that limited their choices. They have to be accountable for them.

 

[AZZenny]

DEAD HORSE!!!

I think there may be two camps or philosophies and never the twain, etc. Maybe we should bury this one. Some of us believe the current situation and how we got here was largely predictable and potentially avoidable, and others don't. We aren't convincing each other one bit.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Well, actually, go back and find my predictions last off-season where I said Reynolds and Alomar and Randy Choate were going to be horrible and the D-Backs would be a crummy team.

What Randy Choate (who makes something near the minimum) has to do with this is beyond me. You still need a team of 25 out there, and going with relatively cheap guys (given their respective recent history) over the course of time like Alomar/Spivey/Baerga to fill a couple holes wasnt really a bad way to go. Of course, these guys didnt work out, but thats baseball. You cant just give every single penny out to two or three guys and give everybody else the minimum.

But you are simply wrong. The contracts to Gonzo and RJ were handed out just prior to the 2003 season. They had nothing to do with winning now - look at the record of the 2003 season.

You have to be kidding me, it had everything to do with winning now. The Diamondbacks had racked up all that deferred payments and they needed to be paid off, which was how they got into the tight financial situation in the first place. This was the big cost of winning early. We knew this was going to happen. Once again, what difference does it make giving contracts to LG and RJ but not Curt or giving one to Curt and LG or RJ but not the other? Couldnt have all three realistically. Paying $42M to three guys within that shrinking budget amid tons of World Series-sized deferred paymets just wasnt feasible.

Joe Jr. and company made some pretty bad choices. Those choices not only resulted in a lot of other decisions. You can't just say, "well they had no choice" because the D-Backs put themselves in certain positions that limited their choices. They have to be accountable for them.

I dont deny that Jr has made some choices that didnt work out in hindsight. Show me a team that doesnt have a couple contracts a year too long or a million too much. Even the King of Frugal over in Oakland took on $11M for Dye the last couple years. Bad contracts are going to happen.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

DEAD HORSE!!!

I think there may be two camps or philosophies and never the twain, etc. Maybe we should bury this one. Some of us believe the current situation and how we got here was largely predictable and potentially avoidable, and others don't. We aren't convincing each other one bit.

You are probably right about that. Im done on the subject, I promise!

 

[RLakin]

Even the King of Frugal over in Oakland took on $11M for Dye the last couple years. Bad contracts are going to happen.

I've seen this charge levied more than once by the proxies of spiteful MLB GMs, who resent Beane's efficiency with a fixed budget. (How can you blame them? It must incredibly embarrassing to watch someone to your job better with half the resources.) I have to ask though; what would a Diamondbacks fan have against the "frugal" practices of Mr. Beane?

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

I've seen this charge levied more than once by the proxies of spiteful MLB GMs, who resent Beane's efficiency with a fixed budget. (How can you blame them? It must incredibly embarrassing to watch someone to your job better with half the resources.) I have to ask though; what would a Diamondbacks fan have against the "frugal" practices of Mr. Beane?

Sorry, I should have clarified. It isnt a punch on Oakland management by any stretch, my point was that even those regarded as some of the best around are going to make decisions that will end up being mistakes in hindsight. Thats just the relatively unpredictable nature of the game, all teams go through this.

 

[Moose Lady]

I don't think anyone on this message board or any others can truthfully say they didn't know that this day was coming. You can't have swept all those contracts under the carpet and forgotten about them. This day was due to arrive even we all tried to ignore it. And you know what? It was all worth it to have that '01 season and the '01 World Series Champions. Is there anyone out there that would give it all back given the choice? I sure hope not.

 

[moviegeekjn]

It was all worth it to have that '01 season and the '01 World Series Champions. Is there anyone out there that would give it all back given the choice?

Nope!

Nothing compares to the WS experience (whether fan or player), esp. when you win it all ... Outside of greedy Yankme fans who think they are entitled to this every year, it's something that ALL hard core fans should experience at least once in their lifetime!