Franchise took a big step back today

[Chopper0080]

Wait, does the fourth quarter “matter most” or is it “garbage time”?!? You now have me confused.

The fourth Q matters most to close out a win or to steal a win from the team in the lead.

Garbage time is a reference to stats that are accrued when a defense is enabling the offense to complete easy passes to keep the clock running and speed up the end of the game.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Odegard & Urban had a fun argument regarding 4th quarter vs. total production. Measuring emotion, nerves, and other immeasurable. Was very fun to listen to.

And they all are completely sold on Kyler now. And it continues to be a fun listen.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think @Chopper0080 would have had a debatable point had Kyler put up a bunch of fourth quarter yards while leading us to a mere field goal in the 4th to make it 24-9... or even if Kyler completely fell apart once we got it to 24-16... MAYBE if you really tried hard to see failure. But once you're in a 2 score game at 24-9 with 9 minutes left, that ain't garbage time. And being able to lead a last minute touchdown/2 point conversion tying drive with less than a minute on the clock is the definition of clutch. As if leading the team down for a score on the first possession of OT. Trying to minimize what Kyler accomplished in that quarter holds zero water, IMO.

I apparently see this much differently than the board. Over 3+ quarters the Cardinals had generated 160ish yards of offense, 3 scoring drives and 9 points. With 9 minutes left in the game, the Lions were up 16. What indicator was there that the Cardinals had the capability to score two TDs while also converting two 2pt conversions? We almost matched the number of yards we had accrued the entire game in those two TD scoring drives.

In my mind, this is why the comeback was so shocking. Those two drives looked completely different than the Cardinals offense prior to that point.

This all being said, if this is not a shared view by anyone else on this board, I can see where it would come across as ludicrous.

 

[Solar7]

if in a year where we're coming off the worst season in franchise history, the ONLY way you're gonna have fun is by watching wins, then dude.. you might not want to watch any games this year.

This is a complete and utter rebuilding year. We had the worst team in the league. We had a terrible/old roster. This is a year dedicated to growing pains... which means there's gonna be some growing and a lot of pain. If you can't have ANY fun watching the growing part of it, you are just gonna be miserable the overwhelming majority of Sundays this fall.

NOTE: That is NOT me saying get lost. Just saying if you know you can't enjoy anything but wins in what is clearly a rebuilding year, why put yourself through the aggravation until we might be able to actually compete again.

Were you expecting like a 9 win season or something?

I'm a Cardinals fan. I watched nearly every minute of the debacle that was last year. I'll watch whether I'm having fun doing it or not, because I care about the team.

I've said this team was going to win 3, maybe 4 games all offseason, and I stand by that.

The Lions game was fun for the 4th quarter and OT, but the rest has been excruciating, constantly watching us behind and unable to get there. Keep in mind I didn't get to watch anything but the 4th quarter of the Panthers game.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

How is it not supposed to be 2 degrees of Kyler Murray when you added a losing college HC, moved a top ten pick QB, and did it all to make the shortest 1st round QB in NFL history with barely any experience your #1 overall pick?

Literally everything about this season is 100% on KK and Kyler. There is no bigger focus, and there's no more important point of success.

Because the year before, we went 8-8?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

So tired of this refrain. "Fun" while we're not winning means nothing to me, but to each their own, I guess.

if in a year where we're coming off the worst season in franchise history, the ONLY way you're gonna have fun is by watching wins, then dude.. you might not want to watch any games this year.

This is a complete and utter rebuilding year. We had the worst team in the league. We had a terrible/old roster. This is a year dedicated to growing pains... which means there's gonna be some growing and a lot of pain. If you can't have ANY fun watching the growing part of it, you are just gonna be miserable the overwhelming majority of Sundays this fall.

NOTE: That is NOT me saying get lost. Just saying if you know you can't enjoy anything but wins in what is clearly a rebuilding year, why put yourself through the aggravation until we might be able to actually compete again.

^ Exactly. Arizona/St Louis/Chicago Cardinals haven't provided us the stability... well ever to use really use wins as a barometer.

If we are going to lose, I want them to be competitive while doing it. I want to be entertained. One of my favorite moments of all time was the Monday Night Meltdown. I try to embrace the good and the bad. I know that's just me though.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Garbage time is a reference to stats that are accrued when a defense is enabling the offense to complete easy passes to keep the clock running and speed up the end of the game.

No matter how you describe it. Your description doesn't square game 1 and game 3.

 

[Solar7]

Because the year before, we went 8-8?

We were the worst team in the league and instead of making sensible football moves, we threw out any conventional wisdom and made a COMPLETE Hail Mary call at HC and QB, with the first pick.

In a vacuum, if I were talking about any other team, and said "they were the worst team in football, so they hired a college head coach with a losing record, and the shortest QB drafted in the first round in NFL history, who only started one season of football," you'd spit out your drink laughing and ask if this was the Browns or something.

By making such a dramatic move, ALL of the pressure is on Kyler and Kliff. They need to prove we're the smartest guys in the room and didn't just close our eyes and throw a dart.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We were the worst team in the league and instead of making sensible football moves, we threw out any conventional wisdom and made a COMPLETE Hail Mary call at HC and QB, with the first pick.

In a vacuum, if I were talking about any other team, and said "they were the worst team in football, so they hired a college head coach with a losing record, and the shortest QB drafted in the first round in NFL history, who only started one season of football," you'd spit out your drink laughing and ask if this was the Browns or something.

By making such a dramatic move, ALL of the pressure is on Kyler and Kliff. They need to prove we're the smartest guys in the room and didn't just close our eyes and throw a dart.

Again, we went from 8-8 to the worst team in franchise history using 'sensible moves and conventional wisdom.'

 

[Solar7]

Again, we went from 8-8 to the worst team in franchise history using 'sensible moves and conventional wisdom.'

We went from a great coach to a bad coach. We went from decent QB play to literally not a single QB on the roster. That team was 8-8 because Arians squeezed every little bit out of those guys that he could, and Keim went to a guy with a major scheme change, and an awful offensive coordinator. But the talent on the roster was already getting old and declining. It's not the conventional wisdom that got us in trouble, it's a confluence of events.

We panicked and wanted to become the Rams and Browns all in one offseason.

 

[DVontel]

We were the worst team in the league and instead of making sensible football moves, we threw out any conventional wisdom and made a COMPLETE Hail Mary call at HC and QB, with the first pick.

In a vacuum, if I were talking about any other team, and said "they were the worst team in football, so they hired a college head coach with a losing record, and the shortest QB drafted in the first round in NFL history, who only started one season of football," you'd spit out your drink laughing and ask if this was the Browns or something.

By making such a dramatic move, ALL of the pressure is on Kyler and Kliff. They need to prove we're the smartest guys in the room and didn't just close our eyes and throw a dart.

Probably people with ancient mindsets.
I wouldn’t, though.

 

[Solar7]

Probably people with ancient mindsets.
I wouldn’t, though.

We'll see, man. So far the season is basically over by the end of September and the guy in charge who decided to make all of those decisions is about to lose his job, so I'm not seeing the bright side here.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

We went from a great coach to a bad coach. We went from decent QB play to literally not a single QB on the roster. That team was 8-8 because Arians squeezed every little bit out of those guys that he could, and Keim went to a guy with a major scheme change, and an awful offensive coordinator. But the talent on the roster was already getting old and declining. It's not the conventional wisdom that got us in trouble, it's a confluence of events.

We panicked and wanted to become the Rams and Browns all in one offseason.

Well, that's one take. I can see why you feel that way. (Honestly, I'm not trying to sound trite)

I think that Keim, for all of his faults, knows that the NFL is evolving. It is shifting to a passing league more and more. Just like the NBA has moved to a 3 pointer game.

I guess we differ because I applaud the swing of the fence. I'm angry at Keim about the talent he has whiffed on over and over again and the lack of improvement in the offensive line much more than a rookie QB and HC. There will always be growing pains there.

 

[Solar7]

Well, that's one take. I can see why you feel that way. (Honestly, I'm not trying to sound trite)

I think that Keim, for all of his faults, knows that the NFL is evolving. It is shifting to a passing league more and more. Just like the NBA has moved to a 3 pointer game.

I guess we differ because I applaud the swing of the fence. I'm angry at Keim about the talent he has whiffed on over and over again and the lack of improvement in the offensive line much more than a rookie QB and HC. There will always be growing pains there.

The NFL is evolving, but you need to be smart in how you adjust. Andy Reid and Sean McVay had proven success or at least NFL experience. I'm not mad about a rookie HC, or even a college HC, I'm just mad about hiring one that wasn't able to win. If this were Lincoln Riley, I doubt you'd hear a peep from me.

Keeping Keim was the big mistake. I just don't know how we sell a decent GM candidate on the situation we're in right now. You have to have pure conviction in this entire experiment for it to even have a shot, but whispers around the league weren't kind to us in that regard.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The NFL is evolving, but you need to be smart in how you adjust. Andy Reid and Sean McVay had proven success or at least NFL experience. I'm not mad about a rookie HC, or even a college HC, I'm just mad about hiring one that wasn't able to win. If this were Lincoln Riley, I doubt you'd hear a peep from me.

Keeping Keim was the big mistake. I just don't know how we sell a decent GM candidate on the situation we're in right now. You have to have pure conviction in this entire experiment for it to even have a shot, but whispers around the league weren't kind to us in that regard.

I like Keim's moves THIS offseason, but he was undone by the moves prior to this year.

Keim is too reactionary, very rarely do you see a older veteran replaced by a cheap young player. His inability to find young offensive lineman and identify good offensive line coaches has been putrid.

Because he makes mistakes over and over, he's constantly having to fix those mistakes with expensive middling veterans (Pugh, Alford, etc).

I dont think he is a terrible GM. What we dont know is how much influence Uncle Bruce had on the roster; from appearances, it seems he helped to screw it up more. If things had been thr right way, Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson would be the Cardinals starter. The Cardinals were positioned to take the franchise QB.

 

[Solar7]

I like Keim's moves THIS offseason, but he was undone by the moves prior to this year.

Keim is too reactionary, very rarely do you see a older veteran replaced by a cheap young player. His inability to find young offensive lineman and identify good offensive line coaches has been putrid.

Because he makes mistakes over and over, he's constantly having to fix those mistakes with expensive middling veterans (Pugh, Alford, etc).

I dont think he is a terrible GM. What we dont know is how much influence Uncle Bruce had on the roster; from appearances, it seems he helped to screw it up more. If things had been thr right way, Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson would be the Cardinals starter. The Cardinals were positioned to take the franchise QB.

I think we were absolutely primed to take Watson or Mahomes, and simply got shockingly overtaken by teams offering way more than we reasonably could have at the time. What a crap situation.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Keeping Keim was the big mistake. I just don't know how we sell a decent GM candidate on the situation we're in right now. You have to have pure conviction in this entire experiment for it to even have a shot, but whispers around the league weren't kind to us in that regard.

As far as selling GM candidates:

Two words.

Kyler Murray.

 

[Solar7]

As far as selling GM candidates:

Two words.

Kyler Murray.

lol

Not gonna turn this into a Kyler war, but not every team was poised to take him #1, and if you as a GM didn't believe in him then, well it's going to still take some convincing. If you're part of the front office personnel that said they didn't understand the direction AZ was going, you're probably not going to be any more convinced on the combo unless some wins start happening... and in that case Keim probably isn't gone.

Kind of a weird situation.

 

[juza76]

lol

Not gonna turn this into a Kyler war, but not every team was poised to take him #1, and if you as a GM didn't believe in him then, well it's going to still take some convincing. If you're part of the front office personnel that said they didn't understand the direction AZ was going, you're probably not going to be any more convinced on the combo unless some wins start happening... and in that case Keim probably isn't gone.

Kind of a weird situation.

Not every team were poised to take him at number 1 cause we had the first pick and we didn't want to trade the pick
Should be easy to understand it

 

[Outerlimits]

lol

Not gonna turn this into a Kyler war, but not every team was poised to take him #1, and if you as a GM didn't believe in him then, well it's going to still take some convincing. If you're part of the front office personnel that said they didn't understand the direction AZ was going, you're probably not going to be any more convinced on the combo unless some wins start happening... and in that case Keim probably isn't gone.

Kind of a weird situation.

Completely agree. I doubt anyone is more nervous each Sunday than Keim. It's frankly amazing he still has a job considering all the roster blunders/dead cap money and of course the DUI. He was allowed one more chance and has decided to push all his poker chips to the middle of the table hoping the Kliff/Kyler combo will be a winning hand.

I do think a minimal improvement record wise while being competitive will at least save his job for one more year.

A new GM though would likely want a new coach and very possibly a new QB.

 

[Solar7]

Not every team were poised to take him at number 1 cause we had the first pick and we didn't want to trade the pick
Should be easy to understand it

Missing the point. I'm saying that the other teams in the general vicinity of the draft, even QB needy teams (Giants, maybe Raiders), weren't all that interested in taking him. Kliff has a man crush on the kid and he wasn't considered a 1st rounder until reasonably late in the process. It's not like he was the #1 overall consensus choice for months or years like an Andrew Luck or even Jameis Winston.

 

[sdscard4]

This team is a GM's dream right now. Saying who would want this job...whispers around the league....please. you would have GM's lining up. Yes Kyler is the main sell because....hes freaking good and you can see it watching him play...is he perfect..hell no...does he make mistakes...hell yes...is he the future and thankfully our Qb...yes

 

[Cardsmasochist]

Jackie Smith

Jay Novacek before he went to the Cowboys

 

[Solar7]

This team is a GM's dream right now. Saying who would want this job...whispers around the league....please. you would have GM's lining up. Yes Kyler is the main sell because....hes freaking good and you can see it watching him play...is he perfect..hell no...does he make mistakes...hell yes...is he the future and thankfully our Qb...yes

Winless team with nothing in the trenches, practically devoid of young talent, no starting LT, no starting RT, one starting OLB, a head coach who hasn't shown he can win anywhere...

Yes, a "dream job!"

 

[Zeno]

Winless team with nothing in the trenches, practically devoid of young talent, no starting LT, no starting RT, one starting OLB, a head coach who hasn't shown he can win anywhere...

Yes, a "dream job!"

Considering there are only 32 of those jobs and very few open every year I'd say that far outweighs the negatives.