Free Agency 2018

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And just what makes you so sure of that? His 4-7-4 stat line the other night?

Doncic hasn't proven he's a PG let alone good enough to be a PG in the NBA. A number of people have brought this up over and over, it's conjecture on your part thinking he'll be a PG. No one knows what position he'll play in the NBA! It depends on where he lands, who his teammates are, and what system his coach is running. Kokoskov hasn't even said that Doncic is a PG though. Doncic wasn't the PG on the national team he coached though, so that leaves some question if he'd even use Doncic like that again.

Not to mention I said “his role would be to make everyone better” not “he would make everyone better.” Can you not see the difference there???

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Throughout NBA history, players with size who can dominate the paint or create their own shot have won titles. That still plays today, although the shift has been more and more on guys with size who can create their own shot.

The massive exception is Curry. Not only because he is historically elite at what he does, but also the versatile wings/bigs next to him.

Competent wings with size are difficult to find. Many of them can only play certain roles. This is why im always on the "draft wings with size who can create/pass/shoot."

That said, Ayton fits the above, just as a big. Persoanlly, if I were drafting, I would take Ayton and say screw it at take a wing like Chandler Hutchison at 16. Sure, there are other guys who fit into that category at 16, just my opinion of a guy I like.

I dont think the Suns need to be all in on finding a guard at 16.

Not really replying to one person in general, let alone one single thought/response above. Just thinking with my keyboard. The Suns need more talent, more defense, more offense. Just get guys who can play. Dont overthink it based on fit (in the draft). Free agency is a different scenario.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Throughout NBA history, players with size who can dominate the paint or create their own shot have won titles. That still plays today, although the shift has been more and more on guys with size who can create their own shot.

The massive exception is Curry. Not only because he is historically elite at what he does, but also the versatile wings/bigs next to him.

Competent wings with size are difficult to find. Many of them can only play certain roles. This is why im always on the "draft wings with size who can create/pass/shoot."

That said, Ayton fits the above, just as a big. Persoanlly, if I were drafting, I would take Ayton and say screw it at take a wing like Chandler Hutchison at 16. Sure, there are other guys who fit into that category at 16, just my opinion of a guy I like.

I dont think the Suns need to be all in on finding a guard at 16.

Not really replying to one person in general, let alone one single thought/response above. Just thinking with my keyboard. The Suns need more talent, more defense, more offense. Just get guys who can play. Dont overthink it based on fit (in the draft). Free agency is a different scenario.

Man i agree 100% with this. It’s what makes me cringe when I hear McD state if they go Ayton then they will go guard at 16. Just take the most talent!!!

 

[Mainstreet]

Throughout NBA history, players with size who can dominate the paint or create their own shot have won titles. That still plays today, although the shift has been more and more on guys with size who can create their own shot.

The massive exception is Curry. Not only because he is historically elite at what he does, but also the versatile wings/bigs next to him.

Competent wings with size are difficult to find. Many of them can only play certain roles. This is why im always on the "draft wings with size who can create/pass/shoot."

That said, Ayton fits the above, just as a big. Persoanlly, if I were drafting, I would take Ayton and say screw it at take a wing like Chandler Hutchison at 16. Sure, there are other guys who fit into that category at 16, just my opinion of a guy I like.

I dont think the Suns need to be all in on finding a guard at 16.

Not really replying to one person in general, let alone one single thought/response above. Just thinking with my keyboard. The Suns need more talent, more defense, more offense. Just get guys who can play. Dont overthink it based on fit (in the draft). Free agency is a different scenario.

I was approaching this type strategy when I discussed the possibility of the Suns looking at a big man like Kevin Knox if he fell to #16... not that I'm a fan of Knox. The Suns should be able to get an interesting PG prospect at #31.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

I was approaching this type strategy when I discussed the possibility of the Suns looking at a big man like Kevin Knox if he fell to #16... not that I'm a fan of Knox. The Suns should be able to get an interesting PG prospect at #31.

Knox fits that category as well. Should have mentioned defense, in regards to the wings strategy, but thats a given. Knox is, hopefully, a shot maker who has untapped potential and theoretical defensive ability.

More wings = more versatility = more size. The trick is finding the right ones who can slot into those different roles (see Celtics). Either way, just draft talent you think you can mold and develop, above all else. Thats what the Suns should do. Dont reach for a guard at 16 just because you have a need.

 

[Mainstreet]

Knox fits that category as well. Should have mentioned defense, in regards to the wings strategy, but thats a given. Knox is, hopefully, a shot maker who has untapped potential and theoretical defensive ability.

More wings = more versatility = more size. The trick is finding the right ones who can slot into those different roles (see Celtics). Either way, just draft talent you think you can mold and develop, above all else. Thats what the Suns should do. Dont reach for a guard at 16 just because you have a need.

We agree. The Suns should not be locked into a PG at #16. Take BPA. If happens to be a PG this is fine. Take players that can make the team.

 

[elindholm]

I think you’re misusing a word. I think there’s little doubt bender is more “skilled.” He’s a better 3 point shooter, ball handler and passer. Those are skills.

Chriss is a better rebounder, two-point shooter, and shot blocker. Those are also skills. I don't understand the distinction you're trying to draw. Bender has skills more traditionally associated with guards, and Chriss has skills more traditionally associated with bigs. Neither of them has developed their skills very well by this point.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Throughout NBA history, players with size who can dominate the paint or create their own shot have won titles. That still plays today, although the shift has been more and more on guys with size who can create their own shot.

The massive exception is Curry. Not only because he is historically elite at what he does, but also the versatile wings/bigs next to him.

Competent wings with size are difficult to find. Many of them can only play certain roles. This is why im always on the "draft wings with size who can create/pass/shoot."

That said, Ayton fits the above, just as a big. Persoanlly, if I were drafting, I would take Ayton and say screw it at take a wing like Chandler Hutchison at 16. Sure, there are other guys who fit into that category at 16, just my opinion of a guy I like.

I dont think the Suns need to be all in on finding a guard at 16.

Not really replying to one person in general, let alone one single thought/response above. Just thinking with my keyboard. The Suns need more talent, more defense, more offense. Just get guys who can play. Dont overthink it based on fit (in the draft). Free agency is a different scenario.

Curry is not dominant enough to carry a team by himself. He is the best player on this team, but the players around him are perfect complements and stars in their own right. They are coached extremely well and play as a team. Curry is not in the class of an MJ, or even a LeBron. In Curry's first championship, Iggy was MVP of the series. After that he had KD.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Curry is not dominant enough to carry a team by himself. He is the best player on this team, but the players around him are perfect complements and stars in their own right. They are coached extremely well and play as a team. Curry is not in the class of an MJ, or even a LeBron. In Curry's first championship, Iggy was MVP of the series. After that he had KD.

Well I wouldn't put him in that category, but hes absolutely historically elite because of what he can do shooting wise, especially off the dribble. But, yes, the team around him allows him to function at his efficiency levels.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Curry is not dominant enough to carry a team by himself. He is the best player on this team, but the players around him are perfect complements and stars in their own right. They are coached extremely well and play as a team. Curry is not in the class of an MJ, or even a LeBron. In Curry's first championship, Iggy was MVP of the series. After that he had KD.

I'm not sure what your point is, especially bringing up Iguodala's MVP. Iggy was big in the finals but that season is on Curry, same with those playoffs. Steph had an incredible year, one for the ages.

While Curry is not in the class of MJ or Lebron, that's true of almost every single player that's ever suited up in the NBA. He's still a transcendent player that any team in the league would love to build around IMO.

 

[pokerface]

We agree. The Suns should not be locked into a PG at #16. Take BPA. If happens to be a PG this is fine. Take players that can make the team.

Well this is easy to say because most "starter quality" pg's will be gone by #16. Lets see what happens if the suns move up a couple/few spots. Then let's see what BPA means.

 

[Ronin]

I'm not sure what your point is, especially bringing up Iguodala's MVP. Iggy was big in the finals but that season is on Curry, same with those playoffs. Steph had an incredible year, one for the ages.

While Curry is not in the class of MJ or Lebron, that's true of almost every single player that's ever suited up in the NBA. He's still a transcendent player that any team in the league would love to build around IMO.

We almost had the chance. Stupid Golden state for backing out of the Amare trade.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not sure what your point is, especially bringing up Iguodala's MVP. Iggy was big in the finals but that season is on Curry, same with those playoffs. Steph had an incredible year, one for the ages.

While Curry is not in the class of MJ or Lebron, that's true of almost every single player that's ever suited up in the NBA. He's still a transcendent player that any team in the league would love to build around IMO.

You get to start a team to build around. You can choose any of these players as a rookie (knowing what they will become).

LeBron, Jordan, Curry, AD, KD, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq, KG.

Who do you choose? To me, Curry is last in that bunch. Maybe I just don't value Curry as much as some of you do. He is a great player, but he is a small shooter who needs a quality team around him to succeed. His team, without him, would probably win the championship this year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Knox fits that category as well. Should have mentioned defense, in regards to the wings strategy, but thats a given. Knox is, hopefully, a shot maker who has untapped potential and theoretical defensive ability.

More wings = more versatility = more size. The trick is finding the right ones who can slot into those different roles (see Celtics). Either way, just draft talent you think you can mold and develop, above all else. Thats what the Suns should do. Dont reach for a guard at 16 just because you have a need.

Agreed. Seems like the guards (particularly the pgs) fall into 3 categories:

Top 10:
Doncic (arguments that’s he’s not a pg notwithstanding)
Young
Sexton

Teens:
Shai (likely high teens)

Picks 25-40:
Carter
Shamet
Milton

Pushing a guy from the last set to 16 seems to be way over drafting for a position.

 

[Ronin]

A Curry less Warriors team gets to the WCF, but that is far as they go. JMO

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chriss is a better rebounder, two-point shooter, and shot blocker. Those are also skills. I don't understand the distinction you're trying to draw. Bender has skills more traditionally associated with guards, and Chriss has skills more traditionally associated with bigs. Neither of them has developed their skills very well by this point.

I don’t think chriss’ rebounding superiority is skills based, it’s physical ability based. IMO Chriss gathers rebounds due to his ability to jump over not his positioning or knowledge of rebounding which are acquired skills (again in my opinion). Now that, again imo, means he’s got more upside because if he learns those items he’ll become an even better rebounder. Same thoughts on blocking shots. I think he’s superior due to physical abilities not the skill of reading the player and timing things well.

All that said, while bender can also improve those items just by becoming more aggressive and learning the same items, he likely won’t ever have the same ceiling as Chriss with those two elements.

As for the two point shooting, i believe that is a difference made up of a skill, but I wonder how much the “shooting” stat is skewed by chriss’ shots at the rim (no idea, but wonder)?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We almost had the chance. Stupid Golden state for backing out of the Amare trade.

It would have been interesting to see (a) if curry became CURRY; and (b) how that would have changed the suns trajectory (then and today).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You get to start a team to build around. You can choose any of these players as a rookie (knowing what they will become).

LeBron, Jordan, Curry, AD, KD, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq, KG.

Who do you choose? To me, Curry is last in that bunch. Maybe I just don't value Curry as much as some of you do. He is a great player, but he is a small shooter who needs a quality team around him to succeed. His team, without him, would probably win the championship this year.

Hmm that’s an interesting way to view it. Initially I thought “Curry is right there,” but when I went player by player I think I end up in the same place as you. And I know hats not an exhaustive list, but man if he’s at least on that historical list somewhere it says something about him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You get to start a team to build around. You can choose any of these players as a rookie (knowing what they will become).

LeBron, Jordan, Curry, AD, KD, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq, KG.

Who do you choose? To me, Curry is last in that bunch. Maybe I just don't value Curry as much as some of you do. He is a great player, but he is a small shooter who needs a quality team around him to succeed. His team, without him, would probably win the championship this year.

More I think about it, I might take currry over Durant.

 

[Ronin]

It would have been interesting to see (a) if curry became CURRY; and (b) how that would have changed the suns trajectory (then and today).

Hmm interesting point. Curry was not Curry when he entered the league. He didn’t get much playing time because of his ankles and he was playing behind Monta Ellis.

 

[AzStevenCal]

More I think about it, I might take currry over Durant.

I certainly would and the only reason I'd take Kobe over Curry is longevity/durability. I'd put Curry's best couple of years over Bryant's. Going strictly by the way the question was worded I'd have to take AD over Curry but Steph has had a much better career to date.

 

[elindholm]

You get to start a team to build around. You can choose any of these players as a rookie (knowing what they will become).

LeBron, Jordan, Curry, AD, KD, Duncan, Robinson, Hakeem, Kobe, Shaq, KG.

Who do you choose?

That's a really tough question. Longevity counts, because you can't predict how the timing of your other pieces will work out. Adaptability to different eras or different styles of play counts too. I think I have four tiers:

Tier I -- You'd better be able to win multiple championships with this guy
James
Duncan
Jordan

Tier II -- You should be a contender most years, with a decent supporting cast
Olajuwon
Bryant
Curry
O'Neal

Tier III -- Can be a core piece of a great team, but doesn't have the "it" factor on his own
Davis
Durant
Robinson
Garnett

I'm not sure I take Garnett over Barkley, by the way. And maybe not even Robinson over Ewing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

That's a really tough question. Longevity counts, because you can't predict how the timing of your other pieces will work out. Adaptability to different eras or different styles of play counts too. I think I have four tiers:

Tier I -- You'd better be able to win multiple championships with this guy
James
Duncan
Jordan

Tier II -- You should be a contender most years, with a decent supporting cast
Olajuwon
Bryant
Curry
O'Neal

Tier III -- Can be a core piece of a great team, but doesn't have the "it" factor on his own
Davis
Durant
Robinson
Garnett

I'm not sure I take Garnett over Barkley, by the way. And maybe not even Robinson over Ewing.

Ah. I forgot to include Barkley in the list. I was thinking of prominent players on championship teams and then threw in a couple present day players. I probably should have included Wade in the list as well.

 

[elindholm]

I probably should have included Wade in the list as well.

Wade is way, way down for me. Only once did he rank as high as third in MVP voting. Everyone else on that list was an MVP (except Davis, but give him time).

 

[taz02]

MJ without hesitation. We know if Lebron doesn't get his way he's going to bolt.