Free Agency 2018

[AzStevenCal]

I can't see the gambling change effecting the salary cap that much. It'll increase it but I'd be surprised if it raised things more than $10 million annually. That won't effect salaries all that much. I think it will help teams try to balance things out with how crazy they got with the TV money. We're talking about the cap going from $100 million to $110. That isn't that large of an increase and I could see the players conceding to leveling the increase and implementing it over a year or two rather than all at once. I think everyone learned their lesson from the TV jump. Free agents since the jump have struggled to find deals because teams over paid in that first year. That won't happen again.

Have you watched any of the ESPN sports shows the past couple of days? They clearly think otherwise. They're talking about players delaying long term deals because they don't want to miss out on the anticipated bonanza. I guess a lot of people are assuming that an "integrity fee" will be put into play which would significantly impact NBA revenue.

 

[Hoop Head]

Have you watched any of the ESPN sports shows the past couple of days? They clearly think otherwise. They're talking about players delaying long term deals because they don't want to miss out on the anticipated bonanza. I guess a lot of people are assuming that an "integrity fee" will be put into play which would significantly impact NBA revenue.

Gambling is a big money maker but this isn't the NFL. Basketball gambling isn't nearly as popular as other sports, it's actually bigger for the NCAA than the NBA. Legalizing it could help close that gap but I can't see the NBA making that much from it. The NBA makes 2.6 billion annually from their TV contract, they won't bring in close to that from legalized gambling.

I tried to find more info and there is a lot of guesswork going on. One of the only numbers I found was an increase of approximately $7 million to the cap in 2019. That is a nice increase but it's really not that big of an increase either. I think it will sort of naturally smooth itself because the way deals will come about. There isn't just 1 place where money will come from, it'll be multiple places and some will work great while others may not. We'll see what happens, I can't envision much more than something like that though, a $7 million dollar increase one year. I got that here from an ESPN Q&A about the change in gambling laws. Also this write up on Reddit, that guesses around $700 million in revenue being generated, which is pretty generous, but that shouldn't cause that large of a spike either. It wouldn't be guaranteed either, annually.

We'll see what happens but I had not seen that sort of talk. They'll make something from it because they're pushing to get in on the ground floor, which is smart, but I still can't see them profiting in the billions annually. I think some players are paranoid they'll miss the next big boom. Some haven't seen the money from the TV deal yet while others have signed insane contracts. Guys like Miles Plumlee make about the same as Eric Bledsoe annually because of when the cap increased. Of course some players aren't happy about how things played out and don't want to be tied in long term so they can see the money from any sizable increase. Teams aren't spending like they were that first year when everyone was trying to reach the salary floor and cap space. Most teams were offering obscene amount of money to players that weren't worth it. That has stopped, for the most part, but that doesn't change what happened. A role player this offseason won't make as much as they would have had they been a free agent in 2016.

 

[Chaplin]

First step is to just let the market dictate Payton's worth. See if anyone even offers him a contract that he likes, and if we want him, offer a slightly higher one depending on the amount. I just can't imagine many teams will be offering more than 10m per year to him.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am ok with this. Igor's specialty is teaching pg's to shoot.

I guess this is in reference to Ricky Rubio.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I guess this is in reference to Ricky Rubio.

And Steve Nash and Goran Dragic.

 

[sunsfan88]

First step is to just let the market dictate Payton's worth. See if anyone even offers him a contract that he likes, and if we want him, offer a slightly higher one depending on the amount. I just can't imagine many teams will be offering more than 10m per year to him.

Every PG of decent or better teams have a PG that can either shoot or defend, some have both. If the goal for the Suns is to stop tanking and start the climb back up to winning then they need a PG of a similar kind.

I think they should bring Payton back if learns to shoot over the off season. It's hard to judge defense through off season work but I'm sure the coaching staff can see if his shot's improved from seeing him shoot throughout a week or two and see if there has been any noticeable changes made to his release or form.

If he doesn't make those changes then he will at best be a backup PG and we already have two of those in Tyler Ulis and Shaq Harrison (who is actually very good defensively).

 

[JCSunsfan]

First step is to just let the market dictate Payton's worth. See if anyone even offers him a contract that he likes, and if we want him, offer a slightly higher one depending on the amount. I just can't imagine many teams will be offering more than 10m per year to him.

I agree--which means we have to extend a QO, tying up cap space (almost $10 mil cap hold I think). If we find a different FA we want, we will withdraw the offer and let him walk.

 

[Mainstreet]

Kyle O'Quinn enters free agency. He is a solid backup center for the right price.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...lines-contract-become-unrestricted-free-agent

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

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[Hoop Head]

Someone I don't think has been mentioned as an option that I could see as a target for cheap is Channing Frye. He won't get a big contract. I'd be surprised if he got more than the veteran minimum. He's a great locker room guy who can also be a mentor. He may look for a place like Phoenix where he won't come into a locker room in distress and he can just be a leader or veteran that contributes 15-20 minutes. I don't think he's the answer to our front court issues but he wouldn't be a bad signing for depth. He may be a target if Chandler or Dudley are traded.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

So I was looking to see which potential "stretch forwards" could be targeted by the Suns and I came across something interesting...

Guess who made the 10th most 3 pointers last year among all NBA power forwards?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/...oalsMade/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards

Of course, he was pretty much a disaster from inside the arc, but still...

 

[Mainstreet]

So I was looking to see which potential "stretch forwards" could be targeted by the Suns and I came across something interesting...

Guess who made the 10th most 3 pointers last year among all NBA power forwards?

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/...oalsMade/seasontype/2/position/power-forwards

Of course, he was pretty much a disaster from inside the arc, but still...

And I understand he comes cheap.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah. I am not all that in on trying to get other players. I see so much untapped potential on our present roster. We might have to deal one of Bender or Chriss just because they are using up one another's oxygen. But aside from that, a vet pg is all I would look for.

 

[Hoop Head]

In the Ringer article I posted in the draft grades thread the writer defended Bender a good bit, claiming people should not consider him a bust at this stage. He's still younger than 11 of the guys selected in the 2018 1st round. That is actually kind of interesting. I know he's young but didn't realize he's still that young compared to his peers in the league. He really was the youngest guy in his draft class by quite a bit. It's easy to forget that foreign born players can be selected at 18 while American born players need to be 1 year removed from high school or 19, whichever comes first, I believe.


Here's a link to it, the Suns are the 3rd team they breakdown, i believe.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/22/17494750/suns-hawks-sixers-2018-nba-draft

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

If he opts out, a guy I'd be interested in is Milos Teodosic. He's not young (31), but I think the Suns could use the experience and he may be a good fit with Igor's system (he IS Serbian, after all!). He's a very smart player with good size and is a passing wizard. He also shot pretty well from 3.

He played well for the Clippers last year but struggled to stay healthy due to lingering issues (plantar fascia among them) and is facing a lot of competition that may make him more available to get. Another encouraging thing:

https://basketball.realgm.com/analy...ics-Surprising-Impact-On-The-Clippers-Defense

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Update: Rumors are that the Clippers are going to move on from him, but that's partly over concerns his foot issues will persist. If he's cleared by the medical staff, I have a lot of interest. If not, then ignore this.

 

[1tinsoldier]

He's still younger than 11 of the guys selected in the 2018 1st round.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/6/22/17494750/suns-hawks-sixers-2018-nba-draft

his tender age is news to me. it restores some of my aspirations for Bender.
although you can't teach heart or aggressiveness
i could counter myself by saying
the confidence he can acquire with age and experience may do wonders

regardless
you definitely can't teach size
he's got that
and a very nice stroke from 3

 

[Hoop Head]

his tender age is news to me. it restores some of my aspirations for Bender.
although you can't teach heart or aggressiveness
i could counter myself by saying
the confidence he can acquire with age and experience may do wonders

regardless
you definitely can't teach size
he's got that
and a very nice stroke from 3

He's so young, I can only imagine the culture shock of moving to America and being an instant millionaire, playing with men who trash talk constantly. I don't think he's broken mentally, like a Zarko, but he's definitely reserved. Confidence may be an issue but he can grow up and gain that. It's not like he's quiet or skiddish because he's been beat, it's just new to him. I don't mean to make excuses, he needs to step it up, but I think if he gets the right coaching and probably a good mentor then he may come into his own.

That brings me to a guy I'd like to see acquired as a stretch 4 for the Suns, Mirza Teletovic. He played with Bender on their national team. So there's probably a relationship there, he also has one with the Suns since he was here in the 2015-16 season. He was good off the bench for us but he signed a deal in Milwaukee that was virtually identical to the one Dudley signed. He was released by the Bucks back in March though and they used the stretch provision so he's a free agent now, if he's healthy. He was sidelined with a blood clot issue in his lungs that he also suffered from the year before he came here while he was with the Nets. He didn't have those issues here, maybe the Phoenix weather is good for him? He might be cheap too since the Bucks are paying him this season's salary as well. Just an idea. Of course it would depend on if he's healthy though. He'd be a decent stretch 4 that could provide 20 minutes a game for us, if needed. I'd check it out and see what it would take to sign him, at least. A minimum deal would be awesome if he's capable of playing close to how he did during his last stint here.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Another guy I'd like the Suns to potentially target is Dante Exum. He's had a rough go with injuries, and he's a risk, but Igor should know him well from his time with Utah. Exum was an elite prospect and has top-notch explosiveness (which he seemed to retain after the injuries) and fantastic size. He kind of reminds me of Payton on offense, flaws included, but plays with more consistent effort and imho is more likely to improve his shortcomings.

The big difference, however, is that while Payton has been a negative on defense, Exum has made it a strength. In fact, in Game 2 of the Jazz-Houston series last year, he was getting credit as a "James Harden stopper" before getting injured again in game 4.

He's a risk, but that's what may make him available. The upside is there.

https://pickandroll.com.au/dante-exum-defence-james-harden-utah-jazz-game-2/

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https://thejnotes.com/2018/03/28/utah-jazz-rumors-two-years-20-million-enough-dante-exum/

"Rumor has it that the former lottery pick could be pried away without breaking the bank."

 

[JCSunsfan]

Another guy I'd like the Suns to potentially target is Dante Exum. He's had a rough go with injuries, and he's a risk, but Igor should know him well from his time with Utah. Exum was an elite prospect and has top-notch explosiveness (which he seemed to retain after the injuries) and fantastic size. He kind of reminds me of Payton on offense, flaws included, but plays with more consistent effort and imho is more likely to improve his shortcomings.

The big difference, however, is that while Payton has been a negative on defense, Exum has made it a strength. In fact, in Game 2 of the Jazz-Houston series last year, he was getting credit as a "James Harden stopper" before getting injured again in game 4.

He's a risk, but that's what may make him available. The upside is there.

https://pickandroll.com.au/dante-exum-defence-james-harden-utah-jazz-game-2/

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https://thejnotes.com/2018/03/28/utah-jazz-rumors-two-years-20-million-enough-dante-exum/

"Rumor has it that the former lottery pick could be pried away without breaking the bank."

Is Exum available? I would be interested in him. His jump shot form reminds me a bit of Leandro. Low release point.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

If he opts out, a guy I'd be interested in is Milos Teodosic. He's not young (31), but I think the Suns could use the experience and he may be a good fit with Igor's system (he IS Serbian, after all!). He's a very smart player with good size and is a passing wizard. He also shot pretty well from 3.

He played well for the Clippers last year but struggled to stay healthy due to lingering issues (plantar fascia among them) and is facing a lot of competition that may make him more available to get. Another encouraging thing:

https://basketball.realgm.com/analy...ics-Surprising-Impact-On-The-Clippers-Defense

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Update: Rumors are that the Clippers are going to move on from him, but that's partly over concerns his foot issues will persist. If he's cleared by the medical staff, I have a lot of interest. If not, then ignore this.

Yeah, he wont be back and is potentially a trade piece this week, as hes only guaranteed a little over $2 mil next year.

 

[Mr. Boldin]

Is Exum available? I would be interested in him. His jump shot form reminds me a bit of Leandro. Low release point.

RFA, but makes some sense as a gamble for an upside guy who can play on and off the ball next to Booker. Plus, he can defend guards and some wings. Jumper seems to be improving.

 

[JCSunsfan]

RFA, but makes some sense as a gamble for an upside guy who can play on and off the ball next to Booker. Plus, he can defend guards and some wings. Jumper seems to be improving.

I wonder what would induce Utah not to match. Sign and trade? Elfrid, Sauce, Ulis, maybe even Chriss. Utah has Rubio and Stockton Jr. at pg.

Sign and trade Exum for Chriss. That could work for both teams. Better to do that than offer a salary so high that Utah won't match.

 

[Mainstreet]

Another guy I'd like the Suns to potentially target is Dante Exum. He's had a rough go with injuries, and he's a risk, but Igor should know him well from his time with Utah. Exum was an elite prospect and has top-notch explosiveness (which he seemed to retain after the injuries) and fantastic size. He kind of reminds me of Payton on offense, flaws included, but plays with more consistent effort and imho is more likely to improve his shortcomings.

The big difference, however, is that while Payton has been a negative on defense, Exum has made it a strength. In fact, in Game 2 of the Jazz-Houston series last year, he was getting credit as a "James Harden stopper" before getting injured again in game 4.

He's a risk, but that's what may make him available. The upside is there.

https://pickandroll.com.au/dante-exum-defence-james-harden-utah-jazz-game-2/

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https://thejnotes.com/2018/03/28/utah-jazz-rumors-two-years-20-million-enough-dante-exum/

"Rumor has it that the former lottery pick could be pried away without breaking the bank."

I wouldn't mind kicking the tires on Exum for the right price although the Suns need shooting. However, his shooting seems to be improving or perhaps he understands his limitations.

 

[Mainstreet]

Scott Bordow writes an article which covers the Suns situation at PG and there is not a peep about Payton. I'm thinking he will not return to the Suns.

The Suns did address their point guard need by drafting Okobo with the No. 31 pick but he’s not expected to play significant minutes this season. That leaves Phoenix with Brandon Knight, returning from reconstructive knee surgery, Okobo and, if his contract is picked up, Tyler Ulis.

McDonough acknowledged that Phoenix may look for a point guard in free agency. What the Suns won’t do is put the ball in Booker’s hands and have him orchestrate the offense.

“I don’t see that unless it’s a special game situation or finishing the game that we use him as a playmaker,” Kokoskov said. “You don’t want to you use your best offensive weapon to be a facilitator first and have to guard, maybe, Russell Westbrook.”

McDonough said Phoenix could run an offense in which someone else brings the ball up the floor and then hands it off to Booker so “he doesn’t get worn down playing against Patrick Beverley or some great ball-hawking guard.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...bridges-phoenix-suns-igor-kokoskov/725874002/

 

[JCSunsfan]

Scott Bordow writes an article which covers the Suns situation at PG and there is not a peep about Payton. I'm thinking he will not return to the Suns.





https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...bridges-phoenix-suns-igor-kokoskov/725874002/

Hmm. Definitely thinking all this through. Nothing about Payton at all. I expect they will decline a QO. Something weird must be going on. There is something more to Payton, don't know what it is.