Free agency

[JCSunsfan]

We have been talking about the draft alot. But it might be good to have a little discussion about free agency. I do not think this is the year to swing for the fences in free agency. I cannot imagine the Suns have a prayer of landing KD, Durant, Gasol etc.

But there are some "under the radar" player who might be a consideration.

Certainly Whiteside is a consideration. He will get alot of money, but he is an immensely productive center. I know he hardly qualifies as being under the radar, but I do think he is attainable for the team that really goes after him.

Festus Ezeli is also a consideration. He is a very good player with an injury history. He might be available for a more reasonable deal.

Rondo? Dish and D player with personality issues but produces. He is 30 but seems quite healthy and could be around for 5-6 years in the league. I would love to see what this team would look like with a guard who actually distributes. Gotta spend the money somewhere, everyone says we need a pg. Why not one that brings something different to the table--experience, defense, and distribution.

 

[SirStefan32]

I was looking at a list of free agent a few days ago, and it's really difficult to figure out potential targets without knowing what moves the Suns are going to make via trades. Whiteside is my #1 target, but you have to move one of the other guys (preferably Chandler). I am a huge Mike Conley fan, but not with Bledsoe and Knight on the roster.

I think you go after Whiteside regardless of other factors, but I don't see any realistic game-changing players the Suns could get (realistically.)

If Bledsoe was gone, Rondo wouldn't be a bad choice to play alongside Booker and Warren. He is an outstanding distributor. He doesn't score much, which isn't a bad thing, but I have concerns over his character. That said, I can't think of any incidents this year. On the other hand, I would like to see how Bledsoe plays with Booker and Warren before we trade him.



Horford might be a good target at 4, but he's had some injuries if I remember correctly.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was looking at a list of free agent a few days ago, and it's really difficult to figure out potential targets without knowing what moves the Suns are going to make via trades. Whiteside is my #1 target, but you have to move one of the other guys (preferably Chandler). I am a huge Mike Conley fan, but not with Bledsoe and Knight on the roster.

I think you go after Whiteside regardless of other factors, but I don't see any realistic game-changing players the Suns could get (realistically.)

If Bledsoe was gone, Rondo wouldn't be a bad choice to play alongside Booker and Warren. He is an outstanding distributor. He doesn't score much, which isn't a bad thing, but I have concerns over his character. That said, I can't think of any incidents this year. On the other hand, I would like to see how Bledsoe plays with Booker and Warren before we trade him.



Horford might be a good target at 4, but he's had some injuries if I remember correctly.

I'm kinda where you are. There are a number of guys I think might be good here, but if you just add them to our present bunch, it could be a negative.

It will be interesting to see what happens in OKC this summer in free agency. The decision that Durant makes will unleash a cascading impact on other free agents and numberous trades.

OKC might have to go into a complete rebuilding mode, which might mean that Ibaka would be available. He would be a nice fit on this team and we certainly would have the pieces they would need to plan for the future.

Is it just me or does Kevin Durant just not seem the player that he once was?

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Rondo and Whiteside worry me. Frankly, our organization has shown little ability to handle "strong personalities," and "strong personality" seems to be the nicest way I could describe Rondo and Whiteside.

Ultimately, you have to consider Whiteside because of the huge upside, though I'm not sure why he would come here. Rondo, to me, is not worth the headaches. Ask a Mavericks fan if he's worth the risk.

The only guy in free agency that really intrigues me is Nic Batum. I think he fits in perfectly with the modern game, gives line-up flexibility, and is the kind of unselfish player this organization desperately needs.

However, I don't see a reason for him to leave Charlotte unless someone pays him more, meaning for the Suns he would cost the max. That has me asking myself if I really want Batum, or if he's just the most exciting choice among a bunch of bland options.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I guess the good news about an underwhelming free agent class and a historical amount of free cap room around the league is that the Suns may be able to capitalize on their surplus of (soon-to-be) reasonably priced veterans.

Not sure how much value Tucker, Knight, and Chandler have, but I could see teams that miss out in free agency talking themselves into any of those players. Our best bet is probably to do a full rebuild by drafting well, staying conservative in free agency, and turning players who don't fit with the future into assets. Whether the Suns have that kind of discipline...I don't have high hopes.

 

[slinslin]

Harrison Barnes
Jared Dudley
Dwight powell
Amir Johnson (if he opts out)
Nicolas Batum ( for my taste not young enough considering he will get a lot of money)
Kent Bazemore

Horford is imo too old, too expensive and has played center his entire career. Also he is only averaging like 14/7...

 

[JCSunsfan]

Harrison Barnes
Jared Dudley
Dwight powell
Amir Johnson (if he opts out)
Nicolas Batum ( for my taste not young enough considering he will get a lot of money)
Kent Bazemore

Horford is imo too old, too expensive and has played center his entire career. Also he is only averaging like 14/7...

Watching Jared Dudley the other night. He still looks like that guy playing at the Y with the headband. He still does not look like an NBA player. He is a great guy to have, if you already have him--you know, get him in a trade along with someone else. But I don't see going after him.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Harrison Barnes
Jared Dudley
Dwight powell
Amir Johnson (if he opts out)
Nicolas Batum ( for my taste not young enough considering he will get a lot of money)
Kent Bazemore

Horford is imo too old, too expensive and has played center his entire career. Also he is only averaging like 14/7...

That's a pretty good list, given who is available, but still pretty uninspiring.

I agree on Horford.

Barnes just doesn't seem like a max player to me.

Bazemore plays the one position I think the Suns don't need to add.

Powell and Johnson would be nice additions, but I am not sure why they would sign with the Suns unless we were offering more money than other teams, and neither is worth overpaying.

Dudley would be a nice addition at the right price.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I wonder what the price tag on a Blake Griffin trade would be...

 

[Mainstreet]

One free agent the Suns need to sign is Mirza Teletovic. He has played well for the Suns but he will be in demand for the way he spreads the floor.

Dwight Powell would be a nice addition but I think the Mavericks will want to keep him.

 

[slinslin]

One free agent the Suns need to sign is Mirza Teletovic. He has played well for the Suns but he will be in demand for the way he spreads the floor.

Dwight Powell would be a nice addition but I think the Mavericks will want to keep him.

I disagree. Mirza is overall a negative.

It is great that he can get hot and make unlikely shots but he gives up that much or more on defense alone.

- atrocious defender
- bad decision maker
- below average rebounder
- poor athlete
- 30+ years old

No way would I re-sign Mirza unless it was on a contract appropriate for a #11-15 roster filler.

 

[slinslin]

PFs:

Al Horford
Dwight Powell
Marvin Williams
David Lee
Jared Sullinger

lesser options:
Andrew Nicholson
Jason Thompson
Jon Leuer
Amare Stoudemire
Ersan Illyasova
Nene Hilario

PG:
Jeremy Lin
Brandon Jennings
Ish Smith
Ronnie Price

SF:
Kevin Durant
Harrison Barnes
Nicolas Batum
Mo Harkless
Jeff Green
Solomon Hill
Jared Dudley

 

[JCSunsfan]

I disagree. Mirza is overall a negative.

It is great that he can get hot and make unlikely shots but he gives up that much or more on defense alone.

- atrocious defender
- bad decision maker
- below average rebounder
- poor athlete
- 30+ years old

No way would I re-sign Mirza unless it was on a contract appropriate for a #11-15 roster filler.

You are overstating his defensive deficiencies. He is somewhat below average but he really works hard at it. There worse, much worse, in the league.

If we resign him, it should be a short term deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

I disagree. Mirza is overall a negative.

It is great that he can get hot and make unlikely shots but he gives up that much or more on defense alone.

- atrocious defender
- bad decision maker
- below average rebounder
- poor athlete
- 30+ years old

No way would I re-sign Mirza unless it was on a contract appropriate for a #11-15 roster filler.

I like the instant offense Mirza brings off the bench plus he always plays hard. As I said previously in another post, he will be in demand this summer. A lot of teams will want what he brings off the bench.

Here is noteworthy fact.

With 162 3-pointers this season off the bench, Suns power forward Mirza Teletovic could break the NBA record for 3s by a reserve. San Antonio’s Chuck Person set the mark of 164 with San Antonio in the 1994-95 season.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...chandler-host-teammates-over-summer/82625348/

 

[AzStevenCal]

You are overstating his defensive deficiencies. He is somewhat below average but he really works hard at it. There worse, much worse, in the league.

If we resign him, it should be a short term deal.

I agree. Matter of fact I'd wager he's a well above average rebounder for his role. How many instant offense bench players defend as well as Mizra does, or even give effort defending as Mizra does on every possession? I wouldn't want him as a starter but IMO he's clearly exceeded expectations. He might be the only player on our team you can say that about.

Bledsoe played well early but we expected him to play more than 6 weeks so he hasn't met or exceeded expectations. Booker has shown exceptional potential but that's mostly based on his age. His play would have left him on the bench most games had we been anything other than a horrible team. And sadly, Price is probably the next player in the "meets expectations" rankings for this team. Which, of course, goes a long way in explaining why we are going to finish as the 2nd worst Suns team ever.

 

[slinslin]

I agree. Matter of fact I'd wager he's a well above average rebounder for his role. How many instant offense bench players defend as well as Mizra does, or even give effort defending as Mizra does on every possession? I wouldn't want him as a starter but IMO he's clearly exceeded expectations. He might be the only player on our team you can say that about.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2016.html

His total rebounding percentage is 9.7%.

For comparison sake (Tyson Chandler 19.5%, Len 17.9%, Leuer 15.5%, Morris 11.5%, Tucker 10.7%)

So yeah even among the Suns frontcourt he is easily the worst rebounder.

In DBPM (defensive box plus minus) Teletovic is the worst on the entire roster. Even Booker as a rookie is better.

Does not help that he is also a horrid passer and decision maker with the ball. Only Warren, Len and Chandler have worse assist rates on the team.

His saving grace is his 3pt shooting, but I would not pay a 31 year old 6'9 forward that does nothing else well anything more than about 3yrs/15M$ maximum.

 

[AzStevenCal]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2016.html

His total rebounding percentage is 9.7%.

For comparison sake (Tyson Chandler 19.5%, Len 17.9%, Leuer 15.5%, Morris 11.5%, Tucker 10.7%)

So yeah even among the Suns frontcourt he is easily the worst rebounder.

In DBPM (defensive box plus minus) Teletovic is the worst on the entire roster. Even Booker as a rookie is better.

Does not help that he is also a horrid passer and decision maker with the ball. Only Warren, Len and Chandler have worse assist rates on the team.

His saving grace is his 3pt shooting, but I would not pay a 31 year old 6'9 forward that does nothing else well anything more than about 3yrs/15M$ maximum.

I didn't say he was a good rebounder or a good defender. I said his defense should be compared to the instant offense bigs that come in off the bench. For a guy who spends the vast majority of his court time at the 3 point line, a 9.7 rebound percentage is pretty good, isn't it? He spends far more time on the perimeter than PJ does and his % isn't that much different.

A bench player with a 15.8 PER (tied for 2nd highest on Suns) on a team like ours is doing more than just making 3's. And only Bledsoe has a higher WS/48 than Mizra's. He's a good locker room player that reportedly wants to stay in Phoenix. I'm not suggesting we break the bank for him but I'd re-sign him in a heartbeat at the going rate, whatever that is. A pair of veterans such as Mizra and Tyson should be perfect support players for our soon-to-be even younger squad.

 

[slinslin]

I didn't say he was a good rebounder or a good defender. I said his defense should be compared to the instant offense bigs that come in off the bench. For a guy who spends the vast majority of his court time at the 3 point line, a 9.7 rebound percentage is pretty good, isn't it? He spends far more time on the perimeter than PJ does and his % isn't that much different.

No, his defensive rebounding % also is the worst among our PFs and C. (Teletovic 16.4, Morris 18.3%, Leuer 25.5%, Len 25.6%, Chandler 27.8%)

A bench player with a 15.8 PER (tied for 2nd highest on Suns) on a team like ours is doing more than just making 3's. And only Bledsoe has a higher WS/48 than Mizra's. He's a good locker room player that reportedly wants to stay in Phoenix. I'm not suggesting we break the bank for him but I'd re-sign him in a heartbeat at the going rate, whatever that is. A pair of veterans such as Mizra and Tyson should be perfect support players for our soon-to-be even younger squad.

The only reason his PER is above average is because he is shooting efficiently at at crazy 3-pointer per minute rate this year. Also PER has nothing to do with being a bench player.
You could play 1 minute and have a high PER. The stat takes minutes out of the equation.

Also the league average PER is 15.

I'd rather re-sign Leuer than Mirza, assuming that Leuer would be cheaper too. Leuer is younger, much better rebounder, better defender, better passer and can also shoot the 3 just not in the crazy volume.

I would also much prefer a cohesive balanced bench unit than a chucker like Mirza.

 

[AzStevenCal]

No, his defensive rebounding % also is the worst among our PFs and C. (Teletovic 16.4, Morris 18.3%, Leuer 25.5%, Len 25.6%, Chandler 27.8%)



The only reason his PER is above average is because he is shooting efficiently at at crazy 3-pointer per minute rate this year. Also PER has nothing to do with being a bench player.
You could play 1 minute and have a high PER. The stat takes minutes out of the equation.

Also the league average PER is 15.

I'd rather re-sign Leuer than Mirza, assuming that Leuer would be cheaper too. Leuer is younger, much better rebounder, better defender, better passer and can also shoot the 3 just not in the crazy volume.

I would also much prefer a cohesive balanced bench unit than a chucker like Mirza.

I know PER is designed to take playing time out of the equation. But a 15.8 for someone that supposedly is just a "chucker" is pretty good IMO. Plus you cannot expect a forward that is told to stand at the 3 point line to rebound as well as other forwards. Notice that his rebounding and even his defense are at career lows with us and that's due to how we choose to use him. And besides, no matter how hard you try to dismiss it, scoring often and efficiently is FAR more important than any other skill or statistic.

 

[95pro]

MT is a shooter, plain and simple. Any guy that can come off the bench, spread the floor and get his shot off quickly is an asset. His role isn't to bang down low, rebound or make passes.

 

[Phrazbit]

I wouldn't mind seeing him back but I'd prefer him in a much smaller role. He is a little too happy to chuck the ball on his first touch. I realize it is his job to catch and shoot but he shots seemingly every time he gets the ball near the 3pt line. I don't know how an offense can find a rhythm and guys can figure out how to move around and pass with a guy like that out there for long stretches.

If he isn't happy with a role that limits him to like 10 minutes a game then I'd rather he isn't back.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I wouldn't mind seeing him back but I'd prefer him in a much smaller role. He is a little too happy to chuck the ball on his first touch. I realize it is his job to catch and shoot but he shots seemingly every time he gets the ball near the 3pt line. I don't know how an offense can find a rhythm and guys can figure out how to move around and pass with a guy like that out there for long stretches.

If he isn't happy with a role that limits him to like 10 minutes a game then I'd rather he isn't back.

I think our injuries have forced him into a role not expected but 10 minutes is too little IMO, by about half. He'd be a legitimate 7th man on a good team but as it is, he's one of the very few weapons we have right now so he's being forced to take a bigger role in the offense. He takes too many shots but I strongly disagree that he should be shooting less from the 3 point line. I want him to take every decent look he gets from out there. It's all the other shots he takes that I'd like to put an end to (other than layups), he's just not very effective inside the arc.

 

[sunsfan88]

MT is a shooter, plain and simple. Any guy that can come off the bench, spread the floor and get his shot off quickly is an asset. His role isn't to bang down low, rebound or make passes.

^this. I like him as a 3pt specialist off the bench.

 

[Mainstreet]

I found an article at Arizona Sports by By Kellan Olson dated 4-18-16 that pertains to the Suns salary cap space going forward as well as cap implications for other teams. It is based upon a reported $92M cap for 2016-17. I thought it was an interesting read.

See more at the link below.

The Suns have seven guaranteed contracts on the books for the 2016-17 season that along with the last year of Michael Beasley’s stretched contract, total to $50,291,480.

That gives the Suns a possible $41,708,520 in salary cap space.

The number would have to include the Suns letting go of the last year of P.J. Tucker’s $5.3 million non-guaranteed deal, the last two years of John Jenkins’ $1.05 million per year non-guaranteed deal and the last year of Alan Williams’ $874,636 non-guaranteed deal.

Many experts are predicting for several of the biggest free agents to take a one-year deal with the salary cap jumping from $92 million this season to a projected $107 million in 2017 so they can sign max deals for much more money.

It should be noted Tucker's contract is partially guaranteed for next season; 3.8 million is reportedly not. I think the Suns will keep Tucker for the price.

http://arizonasports.com/story/634357/phoenix-suns-projected-salary-cap-space-for-2016-free-agency/

 

[JCSunsfan]

MT is a shooter, plain and simple. Any guy that can come off the bench, spread the floor and get his shot off quickly is an asset. His role isn't to bang down low, rebound or make passes.

He does throw his body around alot though, and its a fairly substantial body. Tele will drive to the rim pretty well. He actually works on defense.

He is actually a little more than just a shooter.