Free Agent Bigs

[Chaplin]

To answer your first question, I don't. Likewise, what proof do u have that a big is going to help win it all for the Suns?

Last time I checked, Suns choked the last two seasons with Kurt Thomas. Certainly didn't win a title and certainly isn't the answer now is it?

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Second question, I'd like to see u pose that issue to D'Antoni. I'd like to see you insult him with saying you are going too small. I'd be very intrigued as to what he has to tell you.

You are a Suns fan. Live with the fact that the team ISN'T GOING TO GO BIG AND ACCEPT IT rather than complaining everyday that Suns cannot defend Tim and Brand and Boozer.

So sick of Suns fans saying they need more bigs. Accept the fact that Suns won't go big and Suns don't have money.

What do u propose? Trade Marion for Boozer and Okur??? Certainly not the answer.

You are completely missing everyone's point. We have some of that on this board, but I've never seen someone dismiss everything so easily.

True, as a player KT does not fit the Suns style, on paper. The mistake many people make on this board and in the media is that the Suns run all the time. If you watch many of our games, you will see that the games are full of different styles. Sure, most of it is the run n' gun, but there is plenty half-court play with the Suns, where KT was invaluable.

I have yet to give the front office a guilty verdict on this offseason, but to go into the season with Amare, Boris, Shawn Marion and Sean Marks as our only big men won't work. And counting a 6'6" rookie as a big won't work. We shouldn't even be counting Sean Marks, but unfortunately we HAVE to. That's the problem.

We need another big man, if anything, we need one to let Amare rest. That should be of paramount importance. The guy is really good, but he's not superman. He'll need a backup.

 

[Sunsman44]

We need another big man, if anything, we need one to let Amare rest. That should be of paramount importance. The guy is really good, but he's not superman. He'll need a backup.

Okay. So what is your solution? Everyone on this board says the same thing, but never a solution.

Do you sign Brian Skinner? I've advocated him much - just look at previous posts - but people keep bashing him without coming out with a solution.

And what is your backup if PJ retires or signs with Orlando?

Just sick of fans saying Suns are too small and never propose what Suns should do to get big...........only offering "Suns need a big man now" statement.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Just sick of fans saying Suns are too small and never propose what Suns should do to get big...........only offering "Suns need a big man now" statement.

I understand that you're sick of it, but I think just as many people are sick right now because it's seems that there are self-imposed budgetary constraints that limit what we can do if anything. It's not Suns fans fault that the Suns are left with very few options at this point, thus, the only thing we can do is bitch. It's the nature of the message board beast.

 

[F-Dog]

You are completely missing everyone's point. We have some of that on this board, but I've never seen someone dismiss everything so easily.

We definitely need a "Chaplin" emoticon for this board.


Anyway, you're both right. Most of the people posting here are deeply uncomfortable with small ball, and as a group they ascribe value to KT that he's never had. Would the Suns be faster with a SF in place of KT? Would the Lakers have been faster with a SF in place of Kareem? Of course they would, and anybody arguing otherwise is being disingenuous.

Is there value in having the Suns play faster? I don't recall Steve Nash ending the 2004 playoffs with giant bruises all over his legs, so I'll say the answer is "yes", there is a value to added speed that will help to offset KT's half-court skills.


Now, are the Suns good enough that they can dump useful players and not have it negatively affect their chances? No, of course not. So, dumping KT and picking up Skinner or another lesser player is obviously a problem.

 

[Chaplin]

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[Covert Rain]

To answer your first question, I don't. Likewise, what proof do u have that a big is going to help win it all for the Suns?

Last time I checked, Suns choked the last two seasons with Kurt Thomas. Certainly didn't win a title and certainly isn't the answer now is it?

The proof is that with the title running through San Antonio and our inability to stop Duncan and just about everybody on the Spurs from getting in the paint means we lack size and defense in the middle. What other proof do you need? You won't get any assistance from a small forward or guard in the middle. Hence a big man would help. There is no scenario in which getting smaller does.

Second question, I'd like to see u pose that issue to D'Antoni. I'd like to see you insult him with saying you are going too small. I'd be very intrigued as to what he has to tell you.

I would jump at the chance. However, what good would that do? He has been asked that very same question and he always spins in answer. The fact I said he is going too small isn't meant as an insult. I have history on my side. No team to date has played small ball and won a title.

You are a Suns fan. Live with the fact that the team ISN'T GOING TO GO BIG AND ACCEPT IT rather than complaining everyday that Suns cannot defend Tim and Brand and Boozer.

What is your point exactly? Just because we are Suns fans we are suppose to swallow everything hook line and sinker and be happy? We are not suppose to want the team to improve? We are not suppose to think of ways we think the team can get better? We are suppose to "accept" things at face value just because we are fans? Are you for real?

So sick of Suns fans saying they need more bigs. Accept the fact that Suns won't go big and Suns don't have money.

So what are they suppose to say? We don't need bigs? Also, there is a difference between not having the money and not wanting to spend the money.

What do u propose? Trade Marion for Boozer and Okur??? Certainly not the answer.

For starters I would have proposed that we keep Kurt until we can get something equivalent or better. It's sort of like quiting your job before you have a new one lined up. It's not very smart. Second, what you should be sick of is the Suns trying to sell that small ball will work when history says it won't. I want this team to do whatever it takes (including) paying a luxury tax to bring someone in here. When your this close to a title you have to do whatever it takes to get there.

So as things stand today, I am hoping that Tim Duncan goes down for the year, the Spurs magically get real old real fast and that the Suns don't suffer any major injuries. Forgive me if I would rather hedge my bets by us getting a big man versus depending on the 3 other scenarios mentioned above.

 

[Errntknght]

Why is he smiling? Check your signature for the correct expression... (referring to Chap's post - SteelDog snuck in ahead of me.)

 

[Chaplin]

Why is he smiling? Check your signature for the correct expression... (referring to Chap's post - SteelDog snuck in ahead of me.)

Because that was the only one of two that I found. The other one:

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[overseascardfan]

The proof is that with the title running through San Antonio and our inability to stop Duncan and just about everybody on the Spurs from getting in the paint means we lack size and defense in the middle. What other proof do you need? You won't get any assistance from a small forward or guard in the middle. Hence a big man would help. There is no scenario in which getting smaller does.


Good point. We didn't win a title with KT but he provided someone to defend Duncan. Now we have one legit bg man over 6'9 and would probably benefit from adding another one or two.

From what's out there I've heard Austin Croshere and Brian Skinner's names mentioned and figure they would work or substitute Croshere for Ely. Guys with size allow Amare to guard someone else on the frontcourt and help keep him out of foul trouble.

 

[Sunsman44]

Bottom line is this:

Suns had a myriad of chances from the end of the playoffs to the draft to the beginning of the free agency signing on July 11 to pull off a deal.

They didn't.

Sarver made it clear he doesn't want to spend a single penny and made Kerr trade away numerous first round picks, James Jones, and Kurt Thomas for nothing but a bag of cash and some fruit-flavored popcicles.

Now, there is nothing you can do except sign 1 more guy to you roster: Brian Skinner. Not the greatest of players, but what else can you do?

Sarver is not willing to trade away any of the top-7 guys on that roster and isn't willing to spend more than the minimum to fill that roster spot.

Embrace what u have and hope for the best.....

 

[Cheesebeef]

neither of these guys are "bigs" per se, but if we were to bring James Posey or Corliss Wlliamson at a cheap price, I'd feel a little better about our depth problem at least. With Posey, you have another three point-shooter and someone who DA would probably play at the 4 and with Williamson, at least you have a banger who can hit the fifteen-seventeen footer with regularity, not to mention a little grit and a good lockerroom presence who's won a title. Don't know how much someone's gonna pay Posey and he's younger than Corliss so he's probably out of reach, but a cheap Corliss at 10-15 minutes per is better than Tucker/Hill trying to man the 4 for any amount of time.

 

[elindholm]

I don't understand what the deal is with Williamson. He showed flashes of his old brilliance last season, but he couldn't earn regular minutes on a team that desperately could have used his services.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't understand what the deal is with Williamson. He showed flashes of his old brilliance last season, but he couldn't earn regular minutes on a team that desperately could have used his services.

I agree, but that whole team was a freaking mess. I live with a Kings fan and he thought that Musselmen just screwed with everyone on that team. I mean, across the board, everyone but Kelvin Martin seemed to have really bad years.

 

[Sunsman44]

neither of these guys are "bigs" per se, but if we were to bring James Posey or Corliss Wlliamson at a cheap price, I'd feel a little better about our depth problem at least. With Posey, you have another three point-shooter and someone who DA would probably play at the 4 and with Williamson, at least you have a banger who can hit the fifteen-seventeen footer with regularity, not to mention a little grit and a good lockerroom presence who's won a title. Don't know how much someone's gonna pay Posey and he's younger than Corliss so he's probably out of reach, but a cheap Corliss at 10-15 minutes per is better than Tucker/Hill trying to man the 4 for any amount of time.

Finally a nice proposition.

James Posey would be FAN-TAS-TIC!

Adds depth. Adds pure-shooting. Adds great defense. Adds toughness.

In this D'Antoni system, you can never have enough 6 foot 6/7/8 people. In fact, Suns need another to solve the depth problem.

Posey is the answer.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Finally a nice proposition.

James Posey would be FAN-TAS-TIC!

Adds depth. Adds pure-shooting. Adds great defense. Adds toughness.

In this D'Antoni system, you can never have enough 6 foot 6/7/8 people. In fact, Suns need another to solve the depth problem.

Posey is the answer.

yeah, I'd be okay with Posey. I mean if we're REALLY gonna play small ball, you better have the pieces to do it and we don't even have that right now with a 7 man rotation with a history of injuries for a couple of key pieces. That being said, I don't know if Posey fits our financial situation and it's not like he's an older guy like Corliss, so I don't know if he'd sell himself short for one year just to win a title since he already won a title two years ago with the Heat.

 

[Joe Mama]

We definitely need a "Chaplin" emoticon for this board.


Anyway, you're both right. Most of the people posting here are deeply uncomfortable with small ball, and as a group they ascribe value to KT that he's never had. Would the Suns be faster with a SF in place of KT? Would the Lakers have been faster with a SF in place of Kareem? Of course they would, and anybody arguing otherwise is being disingenuous.

Is there value in having the Suns play faster? I don't recall Steve Nash ending the 2004 playoffs with giant bruises all over his legs, so I'll say the answer is "yes", there is a value to added speed that will help to offset KT's half-court skills.


Now, are the Suns good enough that they can dump useful players and not have it negatively affect their chances? No, of course not. So, dumping KT and picking up Skinner or another lesser player is obviously a problem.

IMO, the single biggest problem for this team playing small is that they give up way too many second chance points. As good as KT's defense was, his best contributions to the team were probably on the boards. Even if he wasn't grabbing the rebounds himself he was keeping his man off the glass.

It saw so much easier to run when you are actually stopping the other team from scoring and securing rebounds. You don't need all 5 players flying up the court in order to play fast. Sure, it would be ideal to have an athletic Kurt Thomas, who could also fly up and down the court. That's just not going to happen though, so the choice is between a small, fast team and a team that gives the coach a little flexibility to do something else if the small ball isn't getting it done.

They had better get something else done before the season starts. Diaw is already having back problems. The frontline is too thin even with a healthy Boris.

Joe

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

IMO Posey lacks the "character" requirement the Suns have established.

I see him as Artest-lite

 

[Cheesebeef]

IMO Posey lacks the "character" requirement the Suns have established.

I see him as Artest-lite

how so? i know he had that incident during the playoffs two years ago, but Raja clotheslined Kobe and kicked another guy in the balls but he's still on the team and championed for his "toughness". Never heard much about Posey's "lack of character" and certainly haven't heard anything that would make him Artest-lite. What are you referring to?

 

[Mulli]

how so? i know he had that incident during the playoffs two years ago, but Raja clotheslined Kobe and kicked another guy in the balls but he's still on the team and championed for his "toughness". Never heard much about Posey's "lack of character" and certainly haven't heard anything that would make him Artest-lite. What are you referring to?

Posey has at least one DUI arrest.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Posey has at least one DUI arrest.

eh.

 

[azirish]

I still think the most likely result will be some kind of Posey IHeat) for Pietrus (Warriors). Both teams seem interested in the other guy and neither team wants to pay for their own guy. I cannot quite figure why these teams don't like their own guys and it may all be money, but I would not be surprised if this is the result.

 

[F-Dog]

IMO, the single biggest problem for this team playing small is that they give up way too many second chance points. As good as KT's defense was, his best contributions to the team were probably on the boards. Even if he wasn't grabbing the rebounds himself he was keeping his man off the glass.

Sure, there are plenty of problems with playing small, which is why you don't like it. Does that mean playing small makes them slower? Of course not. KT's box-outs don't make the Suns a better running team any more than his 18-footer makes them a better 3pt-shooting team.

I'm having a tough time making this more obvious. KT will tutor the youngsters in Seattle; does that mean he will make their team even younger? Since KT is likely to suffer another serious injury this season, does that mean that by dumping him, the Suns have actually increased their depth?




James Posey has become seriously dirty playing for Pat Riley in Miami, just as Bruce Bowen did. Of course, we now know that the games are fixed and that "fairness" is not one of the commissioner's concerns, so I doubt the remaining Suns fans have much interest in such trivialities any longer.

 

[Errntknght]

F-Dog,

Does that mean playing small makes them slower? Of course not. KT's box-outs don't make the Suns a better running team any more than his 18-footer makes them a better 3pt-shooting team.

I'm having a tough time making this more obvious. KT will tutor the youngsters in Seattle; does that mean he will make their team even younger? Since KT is likely to suffer another serious injury this season, does that mean that by dumping him, the Suns have actually increased their depth?

Let me be the first to say: huh? and huh?

 

[Cheesebeef]

F-Dog,

Let me be the first to say: huh? and huh?

i'll second that.

 

[F-Dog]

F-Dog,

Let me be the first to say: huh? and huh?

This is what you get for agreeing with George.