Fun Fact on Kevin Kolb Before I Stop Talking About Him Until He Plays Again

[kerouac9]

Kevin Kolb got just as much guaranteed money in his contract extension as Aaron Rodgers did in his.

Kolb has gotten MORE money in the last 18 months from the Cards than Aaron Rodgers got from the Packers.



All right, I'm done flogging Kevin Kolb until Rugby spots him in a hot tub with Fez or he takes another meaningful snap.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

And Rodgers may have more guaranteed money in his next deal than the gross of Kolb's contract.

 

[kerouac9]

And Rodgers may have more guaranteed money in his next deal than the gross of Kolb's contract.

Maybe, but Rodgers' contract doesn't run out until 2014(!). What a freaking steal that extension was. He's only making $9 million this season--total.

 

[Shane]

Aaron Rodgers is certainly no Kevin Kolb

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Maybe, but Rodgers' contract doesn't run out until 2014(!). What a freaking steal that extension was. He's only making $9 million this season--total.

True. But big payday likely coming in 2013.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm on it.

 

[Darkside]

The more I hear about Kolb's contract, the more I'm positive that's why Justin Casey was fired. At the time everyone said it was a Rod Graves power move or some such, but the fact is he managed our salary cap as well as other administrative functions.

Casey also negotiated some contracts, and Graves always appeared to be happy with his work.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...inals-front-office-firing-comes-surprise.html

I just get this feeling he had a hand in the Kolb contract and screwed up the Peyton Manning deal.

 

[football karma]

The more I hear about Kolb's contract, the more I'm positive that's why Justin Casey was fired. At the time everyone said it was a Rod Graves power move or some such, but the fact is he managed our salary cap as well as other administrative functions.



http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...inals-front-office-firing-comes-surprise.html

I just get this feeling he had a hand in the Kolb contract and screwed up the Peyton Manning deal.

maybe

or maybe he is just taking the fall for a bad deal done by Graves

honestly, i doubt the Cardinals lost on Manning due to the contract

 

[Darkside]

maybe

or maybe he is just taking the fall for a bad deal done by Graves

honestly, i doubt the Cardinals lost on Manning due to the contract

I think the Kolb situation had a lot to do with our options regarding Manning.

 

[az1965]

Kevin Kolb got just as much guaranteed money in his contract extension as Aaron Rodgers did in his.

Kolb has gotten MORE money in the last 18 months from the Cards than Aaron Rodgers got from the Packers.



All right, I'm done flogging Kevin Kolb until Rugby spots him in a hot tub with Fez or he takes another meaningful snap.

Only a bunch of morons could have pulled that deal off...


Wait... it was really done by our FO.

 

[D-Dogg]

I think the Kolb situation had a lot to do with our options regarding Manning.

I think the oline had the most to do with Manning not coming here to throw to Larry. Bottom line.

 

[DoTheDew]

Maybe, but Rodgers' contract doesn't run out until 2014(!). What a freaking steal that extension was. He's only making $9 million this season--total.

I wouldn't be shocked to see him hold out or get an extension+raise long before then given what Peyton/Brees just got.

 

[Phrazbit]

I think the oline had the most to do with Manning not coming here to throw to Larry. Bottom line.

On a per play basis Denver's line was actually worse. They just passed less.

Kolb's contract situation certainly didnt help matters, but I think Eli being in the conference and defending the super-bowl is what hurt us IMO.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

all this proves is Aaron Rodgers worked out and Kolb didn't. When Rodgers signed his deal, it made him the 4th highest paid QB in the league and it was widely questioned and based on nothing but potential. Rodgers got off to a slow start and then turned it around. Kolb didn't. No big deal. I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Kevin Kolb won't be the last player to under-perform his contract.

I'm glad this is the last thing you'll say on Kolb because it's pretty lame. He was paid in line with what he was expected to be, the starting QB. That's really a non-issue. His play on the field has been the issue, not the contract.

But unlike you, a seasoned NFL talent evaluator who undoubtedly knows how players are going work out, the Cards targeted their QB, paid him as their starting QB, and it didn't work out. They took a chance and it failed, move on. I think Graves is the worst GM in football but I don't blame him for this one bit.

It's not like Graves chose Kolb over Aaron Rodgers. Kolb was considered the best QB available. I know some will say Hasselback or your boy, Alex Smith. But that's juts not true. Smith had 5-6 years of purely putrid QB play and Hasselback is a broken down old QB was just as likley to get injured signing his contract as he was to be successful. Kolb was enetring his prime and had shown the POTENTIAL to be a legit starting QB.

 

[Goldfield]

I am hard on this FO. But I can't blame them for being proactive and trying to get a qb. It didn't work out and they paid big bucks for that mistake.

 

[mrbyte]

Maybe, but Rodgers' contract doesn't run out until 2014(!). What a freaking steal that extension was. He's only making $9 million this season--total.

Only!! how does he make ends meet??

 

[kerouac9]

all this proves is Aaron Rodgers worked out and Kolb didn't. When Rodgers signed his deal, it made him the 4th highest paid QB in the league and it was widely questioned and based on nothing but potential. Rodgers got off to a slow start and then turned it around.

Kolb didn't. No big deal. I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that Kevin Kolb won't /be the last player to under-perform his contract.

I don't know if you enjoy being deeply dishonest on a Paul Ryan-level, or if you're just so involved in your own superiority that you don't bother to check your facts.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00/gamelog/2008/

Rogers signed his extension on Halloween 2008. In the three games before the bye week, he'd gone 67 for 95, 70% completion, for 707 yards (7.44 YPA), 6 TDs, 1 INT and a rushing TD.

On the season, Rodgers was 145 of 221 (65.6%) for 1668 yards (7.54 YPA), 12 TDs, 4 INTs, 3 rushing TDs.

Give me a freaking break, CBus.

I'm glad this is the last thing you'll say on Kolb because it's pretty lame. He was paid in line with what he was expected to be, the starting QB. That's really a non-issue. His play on the field has been the issue, not the contract.

But unlike you, a seasoned NFL talent evaluator who undoubtedly knows how players are going work out, the Cards targeted their QB, paid him as their starting QB, and it didn't work out. They took a chance and it failed, move on. I think Graves is the worst GM in football but I don't blame him for this one bit.

Guys who have shown the ability to start in the NFL get paid like starting QBs. Guys who lose their jobs as starting quarterbacks for poor performance get paid like Derek Anderson.

The problem with "they took a chance and it failed" is that it's going to take two or three years to move on. That's the fact of the matter in a salary-cap league. Failing on Kevin Kolb will likely cost us the ability to make a run at Jake Long or Joe Flacco next offseason.

It's not like Graves chose Kolb over Aaron Rodgers. Kolb was considered the best QB available. I know some will say Hasselback or your boy, Alex Smith. But that's juts not true. Smith had 5-6 years of purely putrid QB play and Hasselback is a broken down old QB was just as likley to get injured signing his contract as he was to be successful. Kolb was enetring his prime and had shown the POTENTIAL to be a legit starting QB.

Maybe by you, but Duane Starks was considered the best cornerback available. A lot of people point to the Kolb trade like it was a turning point for the "new" Cardinals. That's just not the case. The "old" Cardinals would shell out a huge contract to the "best" free agent on the market, cripple their salary flexibility, and then find that he was a poor fit for the system. Sound familiar?

It's hilarious to me that you continue to discount Alex Smith as being good. You are so blinded by poor performances from 2007 and prior that you don't see that he's been a perfectly adequate starter from 2009 until this day. You act like the Cards shouldn't have considered spending less than half as much money and zero trade compensation for a 27 year old former number one overall pick who had improved the two prior seasons?

Can you still not admit that the Cards would've been better off signing Alex Smith for 2 years, $8 million than trading for Kolb and paying him $60 million? Still?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I don't know if you enjoy being deeply dishonest on a Paul Ryan-level, or if you're just so involved in your own superiority that you don't bother to check your facts.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00/gamelog/2008/

Rogers signed his extension on Halloween 2008. In the three games before the bye week, he'd gone 67 for 95, 70% completion, for 707 yards (7.44 YPA), 6 TDs, 1 INT and a rushing TD.

On the season, Rodgers was 145 of 221 (65.6%) for 1668 yards (7.54 YPA), 12 TDs, 4 INTs, 3 rushing TDs.

Give me a freaking break, CBus.



Guys who have shown the ability to start in the NFL get paid like starting QBs. Guys who lose their jobs as starting quarterbacks for poor performance get paid like Derek Anderson.

The problem with "they took a chance and it failed" is that it's going to take two or three years to move on. That's the fact of the matter in a salary-cap league. Failing on Kevin Kolb will likely cost us the ability to make a run at Jake Long or Joe Flacco next offseason.



Maybe by you, but Duane Starks was considered the best cornerback available. A lot of people point to the Kolb trade like it was a turning point for the "new" Cardinals. That's just not the case. The "old" Cardinals would shell out a huge contract to the "best" free agent on the market, cripple their salary flexibility, and then find that he was a poor fit for the system. Sound familiar?

It's hilarious to me that you continue to discount Alex Smith as being good. You are so blinded by poor performances from 2007 and prior that you don't see that he's been a perfectly adequate starter from 2009 until this day. You act like the Cards shouldn't have considered spending less than half as much money and zero trade compensation for a 27 year old former number one overall pick who had improved the two prior seasons?

Can you still not admit that the Cards would've been better off signing Alex Smith for 2 years, $8 million than trading for Kolb and paying him $60 million? Still?

In the end... it's a 2-year, probably failed, experiment that will have cost $21M or so... DRC and a second round pick. If Kolb plays this season and shows some promise you can bet the $60M agreement will be torn up when his next bonus comes due in March.

(And as one who has used 'convenient' facts to support your particular bias, you really shouldn't be pointing fingers at CBUS. As the saying goes: "When you point a finger, three are pointed back at you.")

 

[kerouac9]

In the end... it's a 2-year, probably failed, experiment that will have cost $21M or so... DRC and a second round pick. If Kolb plays this season and shows some promise you can bet the $60M agreement will be torn up when his next bonus comes due in March.

(And as one who has used 'convenient' facts to support your particular bias, you really shouldn't be pointing fingers at CBUS. As the saying goes: "When you point a finger, three are pointed back at you.")

Hogwash. Maybe I've used incomplete facts to support a point, but at least they were facts. Cbus's statements are orthogonal to the actual reality of the situations that he's referencing.

The ramifications of that failed experiment will be felt for at least a year and likely two (likely longer, but whatever) after Kolb is released. Kolb's pro-rated signing and roster bonuses will hang on the Cards cap for 2013 and likely 2014. The 2nd round pick we gave up to get Kolb will be under contract until 2016.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Hogwash. Maybe I've used incomplete facts to support a point, but at least they were facts. Cbus's statements are orthogonal to the actual reality of the situations that he's referencing.

The ramifications of that failed experiment will be felt for at least a year and likely two (likely longer, but whatever) after Kolb is released. Kolb's pro-rated signing and roster bonuses will hang on the Cards cap for 2013 and likely 2014. The 2nd round pick we gave up to get Kolb will be under contract until 2016.

We all know there is a "dead money" issue in future, etc, etc, etc.

If it ever slipped from mind, we can count on you to remind us.

I thought this was to be an 'in passing' thread, and that you said you'd give it a rest until he played?

When does the "rest" begin?

P.S. Using "incomplete facts" is a deliberate distortion of truth.

Akin to the politician you referenced in in your response to CBUS.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't know if you enjoy being deeply dishonest on a Paul Ryan-level, or if you're just so involved in your own superiority that you don't bother to check your facts.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RodgAa00/gamelog/2008/

Rogers signed his extension on Halloween 2008. In the three games before the bye week, he'd gone 67 for 95, 70% completion, for 707 yards (7.44 YPA), 6 TDs, 1 INT and a rushing TD.

On the season, Rodgers was 145 of 221 (65.6%) for 1668 yards (7.54 YPA), 12 TDs, 4 INTs, 3 rushing TDs.

Give me a freaking break, CBus.



Guys who have shown the ability to start in the NFL get paid like starting QBs. Guys who lose their jobs as starting quarterbacks for poor performance get paid like Derek Anderson.

The problem with "they took a chance and it failed" is that it's going to take two or three years to move on. That's the fact of the matter in a salary-cap league. Failing on Kevin Kolb will likely cost us the ability to make a run at Jake Long or Joe Flacco next offseason.



Maybe by you, but Duane Starks was considered the best cornerback available. A lot of people point to the Kolb trade like it was a turning point for the "new" Cardinals. That's just not the case. The "old" Cardinals would shell out a huge contract to the "best" free agent on the market, cripple their salary flexibility, and then find that he was a poor fit for the system. Sound familiar?

It's hilarious to me that you continue to discount Alex Smith as being good. You are so blinded by poor performances from 2007 and prior that you don't see that he's been a perfectly adequate starter from 2009 until this day. You act like the Cards shouldn't have considered spending less than half as much money and zero trade compensation for a 27 year old former number one overall pick who had improved the two prior seasons?

Can you still not admit that the Cards would've been better off signing Alex Smith for 2 years, $8 million than trading for Kolb and paying him $60 million? Still?

As I posted in another thread:

"When he signed his six-year, $65 million contract in 2008 -- midway through his first year as a starter -- he was the fourth-highest paid passer in the league. To some, it seemed like a reach because of lack of experience".

Also, Kolb signed for less total money than what first year starter Rodgers did in 2008 and was very similar TO MARKET VALUE set by Cassel the previous year. Here's info on Kolb's deal from an article on SBNation:

"The details: It's a five-year extension worth$63 million and $20 million guaranteed. That's about the going rate for a quarterback like Kolb as QB Matt Cassel received a reported six-year, $63 million deal with the Kansas City Chiefs as a former backup two years ago".

Here's another take from Revenge of the Birds:

"We all knew going in that the contract was a risk. In fact, it is very similar to Matt Cassell and Rodgers, who had yet to prove themselves as bona fide starters".


Kolb had shown some ability to be a starting QB in Philly. The NFL didn't just name him player of the week 2 or 3 out of his first 7 starts(going by memory) because they like him. I have admitted Kolb has not worked out. Would you feel better if they had drafted JaMracus Russel and gave him 60 mill? Guys sign contracts and sometimes it's a bad deal for the team. Sometimes it's good. Rodgers worked out, Kolb didn't. I think it's ridiculous that, after the fact, you're trying to use Rodgers contract to bash Kolb when they both were risks at the time they were signed.

I have answered you about Alex Smith awhile back when you asked last time. He would have been better monetarily only because Whiz would not, or has not, changed his offense. He would have struggled like he has any time he's been asked to be the focal point of the passing game. And the only reason Smith was an acceptable QB last year was Harbuagh hid him as much as possible. When he was needed most, he couldn't complete a pass, much less to a WR. I think it's hilarious you consider him an "adequate" starter in 2010 when he was 3-7, benched for Troy Smith, and had a QB rating of 82. But Kolb is unacceptable because he was 3-6 and had a 81 rating.
2010: Smith: 3-7, 59% comp rate, 14TD, 10 INT, 215 ypg, 82.1 rating
2011: Kolb: 3-6, 58% comp rate, 9TD, 8 INT, 217 ypg, 81.1 rating
looks pretty similar to me. To you, one is adequate and the other is garbage.

I'll worry about getting Jake Long or Flacco when they actually hit the open market, which is highly unlikely.

 

[Darkside]

I think the oline had the most to do with Manning not coming here to throw to Larry. Bottom line.

I would agree with that also.

 

[kerouac9]

2010: Smith: 3-7, 59% comp rate, 14TD, 10 INT, 215 ypg, 82.1 rating
2011: Kolb: 3-6, 58% comp rate, 9TD, 8 INT, 217 ypg, 81.1 rating
looks pretty similar to me. To you, one is adequate and the other is garbage.

I'll worry about getting Jake Long or Flacco when they actually hit the open market, which is highly unlikely.

At $6 million one is adequate. At $10 million, neither are. I don't know why this is so confusing for you. It seems pretty easy for me.

And if you want to defer to the coaching wisdom of Mike Singletary, that's totally up to you.

Flacco, maybe not. Jake Long? Quite possibly. Long is in the last year of a 5 year, $57.75 million contract. His salary alone this year is $11.2 million, with a cap value of $12.8 million.

The Dolphins have been trying to get an extension done with Jake Long and his hot wife for the past two years, but his extension would probably have to upgrade his rookie contract. The Fins are looking at--on an extension--five years, $62 million, and $45 million guaranteed.

Joe Thomas last August signed a 7-year, $84 million contract extension with more than $50 million coming in the first three years of the deal.

Will the Dolphins place the Franchise Tag on Jake Long? Maybe, but it would cost them some $13.4 million, all guaranteed when he signs the tender, and no additional committment for the future.

 

[52brandon]

bickering aside... moral of the story, Rodgers should be giving Kolb's agent a call