Future first

[fordronken]

Was it our own future first pick, or Cleveland's?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by fordronken
Was it our own future first pick, or Cleveland's?

It appears that it was our own, top 25 protected for 5 years or something--it's unbelievable that SA agreed to that... IMO...

 

[elindholm]

Was it our own future first pick, or Cleveland's?

Or was it specified? Sometimes a deal is just for "a" first-round pick. My guess is that, if they want, they'll be able to pay the debt with the Cleveland pick once they ever get it.

But ... good luck getting a definitive answer. We still don't know what the deal was with the trades in '01-'02 and how they may or may not have yielded the Stoudemire pick. The media doesn't care enough to track down the precise information, and the teams themselves figure that most fans don't care enough for them to need to explain everything precisely.

NBA.com really should have a page where you can look at all of the draft picks that one team owes to another, with all of the conditions clearly explained. Like that's ever going to happen.

 

[Chaplin]

Straight from BC...

Question: What were the terms of the deal?

Colangelo: We just made a deal with San Antonio to acquire the draft rights to point guard Leandreno Barbosa for a future first-round pick. Protection will begin next year. It will be up to and including 24 next year, so it would be anything 25 or higher and the following five years would be no greater than 20, so 21 or higher. Effectively there's that seven year limitation in terms of first round picks being traded among clubs. So the seven years in 2010 goes unconditionally to the Spurs if in fact they have not received it prior to then. We're obviously hopeful that we're going to finish up there in the 21-30 range in the next seven years. We feel terrific about this because in the same draft we've added the big skilled guy we've been talking about and now we added a backup point guard, which is something I know Coach Johnson was extremely nervous about going into next year. We were looking. We told everyone at 17 we were still looking at a number of guards and this kind of answered the bell. We liked him all along. There was a problem with a hip flexor injury. He was unable to work out for a lot of clubs in this process. We had him in yesterday for a light workout for us. We had him checked out medically. We felt comfortably moving forward. Quite frankly, if things worked out a certain way in this draft, we had him on our list at 17. we feel pretty good about the selection. He's a 6-3 long athletic guard. He's got a wingspan of about 6-9 ½ for a 6-3 frame. He can put the ball on the floor and push it up probably quicker than anyone in this draft.

 

[elindholm]

Notice that he was not asked, nor did he answer, any questions about whether the Cleveland pick can be used to pay the debt; nor did he specify which team (Phoenix or San Antonio) gets to choose when the debt gets settled.

One interesting thing, though ...

Effectively there's that seven year limitation in terms of first round picks being traded among clubs.

I know we've discussed this before, but how new is it? Does it apply to the infamous Cleveland pick?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm


I know we've discussed this before, but how new is it? Does it apply to the infamous Cleveland pick?

And what happens when that statute of limitations runs out? We get the pick no matter where it is?

And how old is that pick now anyway?

 

[elindholm]

And what happens when that statute of limitations runs out? We get the pick no matter where it is?

Well, Colangelo said that, in this deal, the Spurs get the pick no matter what in 2010 if they haven't already. So if the same rule applied/applies to the Cleveland trade, the Suns would get it automatically in the magic year, whenever that is.

And how old is that pick now anyway?

I think it stems from the Wesley Person trade, which happened in October 1997. So today's draft was already the sixth draft since that trade. If the seven-year rule applies, the Cavs' pick would go to the Suns automatically next summer or the one after, depending on how they count.

But I have no idea whether that rule is in effect.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm


I think it stems from the Wesley Person trade, which happened in October 1997. So today's draft was already the sixth draft since that trade. If the seven-year rule applies, the Cavs' pick would go to the Suns automatically next summer or the one after, depending on how they count.

But I have no idea whether that rule is in effect.

That's gotta be from Summer 1998 then. So not next year, but the year after that pick becomes totally unrestricted.

I don't know if the Cavs will be in the playoffs by then, but they certainly won't be at #1. But the 2004-2005 draft might be quite interesting for the Phoenix Suns.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I am guessing that the rule wouldnt apply. Wasn't the trade date before the new CBA?

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by elindholm
NBA.com really should have a page where you can look at all of the draft picks that one team owes to another, with all of the conditions clearly explained. Like that's ever going to happen.

NBADraft.net has a page that covers that stuff pretty well.

 

[slinslin]

The picks is top 25 protected next year and top 21 protected the next 6 years then it is unconditional.

LOOOL

And the Suns hold the option to give them the pick whenever they want if it is better than 25 next year.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I am guessing that the rule wouldnt apply. Wasn't the trade date before the new CBA?

That's probably right, BUT you gotta think the same rule or a similar rule was in place before the current CBA.

 

[Dback Jon]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's probably right, BUT you gotta think the same rule or a similar rule was in place before the current CBA.

Or maybe the rule in the CBA is because of the Cleveland trade!

 

[elindholm]

NBADraft.net has a page that covers that stuff pretty well.

It says this:

Phoenix receives Cleveland's 2003 first-round pick (lottery protected) ( Wesley Person trade 100197)

That tells us nothing that we didn't already know.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
NBADraft.net has a page that covers that stuff pretty well.

It says this:

Phoenix receives Cleveland's 2003 first-round pick (lottery protected) ( Wesley Person trade 100197)

That tells us nothing that we didn't already know.

Woo hoo! Lebron James!!

 

[JCSunsfan]

I remember hearing an answer from the Suns on this question. The Cleveland pick is PERPETUALLY lotto protected. The trade was made under an earlier CBA so it doesn't come under the seven year limitation now in place.

At this point. That Cleveland pick is more valuable to us than our own. If, and when Cleveland makes the playoffs, the pick will still probably be mid first round.

I'm hoping we have to pay off our debt to SA next year and Cleveland ends up the 7 or 8 seed in the East next year.

One pick will be more than enough for us.

BTW, if it is fairly clear by mid-season that Cleveland is in the playoff hunt, that pick then gains significant trade value.

 

[jbeecham]

Cleveland better be in the playoff hunt next year in the weak east. Their starting lineup will probably look like this:

PG: Lebron James
SG: Dejuan Wagner
SF: Ricky Davis
PF: Darius Miles
C: Zydrunus Ilgauskas

I would think they'd switch James & Wagner on defense so that Wagner guards the PG.

Bench: Carlos Boozer, Jumaine Jones, Chris Mihm, Desagna Diop, Milt Palacio, Smush Parker, Michael Stewart.

The only problem I see is that they have no backup SG unless Jumaine Jones backs up both SG & SF. Still this team should be good enough for the 8th seed in the playoffs. Plus they need to make the playoffs to satisfy all the fans that bought tickets to see Lebron win.

 

[slinslin]

Why would Miles start over Boozer after this season?