G Will Hernandez visiting - now SIGNED

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Except it's not based off hope.

Almost the entire opinion of Hernandez is based off PFF stats. Or the opinions of Giants blogs who gained that opinion from looking at PFF stats.

Hernandez's biggest problem is picking up stunts and if he's uncovered and goes looking for work he forgets he's still responsible for that gap if any late rushers join the party because he plays in front of a QB that holds the ball too long. Both things that can be remedied.

He’s been in the league four years. If it’s mental issues he’s got, it becomes less and less likely he overcomes those five seasons into his career.

 

[BritCard]

I thought this was interesting. Based on ESPN stats.

Pass block win rate vs how much help they get.

You can see Scherff is the best here as you would expect. Daniels is up there, I think that was dumb by Chicago and Keim should have been on that. Surprised Norwell is up there as Jags fan says he's sucked.

But Hernandez's numbers aren't bad. Right up there with Glowinski who signed for just under $7m per year. Above Cappa who signed for $8.75m a year and Corbett who signed for nearly $10m per year.

Obviously this isn't the whole story but for $1.2m it's a good deal.

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[Chopper0080]

It's not 4 years though is it? To use the only available metric we have he had pass pro grades in the 70's the first 2 years in the league. That's better than anyone on the O line except Pugh last year.

And why are you arguing the point? It was your suggestion we should sign him for his upside and one of the arguments YOU made was Kugler getting more out of him.

What 26 year old linemen have we signed since Kugler came in 2019? You could argue Hump has got better, certainly had his best year.

Sweezy was 29 turning 30.
Gaillard and Miles were 6th and 7th round picks.
Max Garcia was 29.
Beachum was 30.
And Josh Jones.

That's it. The only young players with any kind of talent coming out he's had are Josh Jones, Hump and now Hernandez.

A couple things to unpack here.

1-Your point was that Hernandez has issues but we have Kugler to remedy them. Of those two points, neither really has evidence to support your statement. Hernandez has had these issues for multiple years and has not been able to remedy them. It is a fair question to ask what will be different. Kugler has not developed any young player on our roster. Humphries is pretty much the same player he was in 2019 and Josh Jones is bad to below average in his reps. Cole didn't develop and neither have any of the other young OL guys we have. So, Kugler coaching him up doesn't really have any backing either.

2-Do I like the signing? Yes. Hernandez is a much better option on our depth chart than a guy like Garcia but not as the penciled in starter. You bring in a player like Hernandez to see if he can play his way into a larger role but you should not be counting on it. I view Hernandez similarly to Sean Harlow. Bring him in, see what he has, and if you strike gold, great. However, that doesn't make him any sort of answer when it comes to our offensive line.

3-So, why am I commenting? Because people on this thread are stating they are uncomfortable with the idea that RG will be a battle between Murray/Jones/Hernandez and you are stating they are wrong for being uncomfortable. That is incorrect and I feel it appropriate to point that out. None of those players have shown they are good options at RG.

 

[Krangodnzr]

A couple things to unpack here.

1-Your point was that Hernandez has issues but we have Kugler to remedy them. Of those two points, neither really has evidence to support your statement. Hernandez has had these issues for multiple years and has not been able to remedy them. It is a fair question to ask what will be different. Kugler has not developed any young player on our roster. Humphries is pretty much the same player he was in 2019 and Josh Jones is bad to below average in his reps. Cole didn't develop and neither have any of the other young OL guys we have. So, Kugler coaching him up doesn't really have any backing either.

OL don't play in a vacuum. You don't think that playing next to Hudson and Beachum can't bring out better from Hernandez? Sometimes the synergy of better lineman helps linemen to grow.

2-Do I like the signing? Yes. Hernandez is a much better option on our depth chart than a guy like Garcia but not as the penciled in starter. You bring in a player like Hernandez to see if he can play his way into a larger role but you should not be counting on it. I view Hernandez similarly to Sean Harlow. Bring him in, see what he has, and if you strike gold, great. However, that doesn't make him any sort of answer when it comes to our offensive line.

I agree, which is why I like signings like Hernandez and Gladney for the cornerbacks. Low risk move that could produce a starter or depth.

3-So, why am I commenting? Because people on this thread are stating they are uncomfortable with the idea that RG will be a battle between Murray/Jones/Hernandez and you are stating they are wrong for being uncomfortable. That is incorrect and I feel it appropriate to point that out. None of those players have shown they are good options at RG.

I think I'm a battered fan because I can remember many years where the Cardinals options were a totally washed up old vet and a bunch of UDFAs, so i don't view a three way battle for the spot that bad.

 

[slanidrac16]

A couple things to unpack here.

1-Your point was that Hernandez has issues but we have Kugler to remedy them. Of those two points, neither really has evidence to support your statement. Hernandez has had these issues for multiple years and has not been able to remedy them. It is a fair question to ask what will be different. Kugler has not developed any young player on our roster. Humphries is pretty much the same player he was in 2019 and Josh Jones is bad to below average in his reps. Cole didn't develop and neither have any of the other young OL guys we have. So, Kugler coaching him up doesn't really have any backing either.

2-Do I like the signing? Yes. Hernandez is a much better option on our depth chart than a guy like Garcia but not as the penciled in starter. You bring in a player like Hernandez to see if he can play his way into a larger role but you should not be counting on it. I view Hernandez similarly to Sean Harlow. Bring him in, see what he has, and if you strike gold, great. However, that doesn't make him any sort of answer when it comes to our offensive line.

3-So, why am I commenting? Because people on this thread are stating they are uncomfortable with the idea that RG will be a battle between Murray/Jones/Hernandez and you are stating they are wrong for being uncomfortable. That is incorrect and I feel it appropriate to point that out. None of those players have shown they are good options at RG.

This just makes too much sense.

It’s the same way if we were to bring a guy like Fuller in with an incentive ladened contract.

 

[BritCard]

A couple things to unpack here.

1-Your point was that Hernandez has issues but we have Kugler to remedy them. Of those two points, neither really has evidence to support your statement. Hernandez has had these issues for multiple years and has not been able to remedy them. It is a fair question to ask what will be different. Kugler has not developed any young player on our roster. Humphries is pretty much the same player he was in 2019 and Josh Jones is bad to below average in his reps. Cole didn't develop and neither have any of the other young OL guys we have. So, Kugler coaching him up doesn't really have any backing either.

2-Do I like the signing? Yes. Hernandez is a much better option on our depth chart than a guy like Garcia but not as the penciled in starter. You bring in a player like Hernandez to see if he can play his way into a larger role but you should not be counting on it. I view Hernandez similarly to Sean Harlow. Bring him in, see what he has, and if you strike gold, great. However, that doesn't make him any sort of answer when it comes to our offensive line.

3-So, why am I commenting? Because people on this thread are stating they are uncomfortable with the idea that RG will be a battle between Murray/Jones/Hernandez and you are stating they are wrong for being uncomfortable. That is incorrect and I feel it appropriate to point that out. None of those players have shown they are good options at RG.

I don't believe I made any point about Kugler working some magic. If anything I believe just getting out of the dumpster fire that is the Giants, having some consistency at OC and having a better QB will improve Hernandez. Not Kugler.

I simply made the point that Kugler hasn't had many young players to develop.

My opinion about RG is we have trotted out Jones, Murray, Sweezy, Garcia and Vujnovich there in recent years and that Hernandez is younger and at least equal to any of them in talent, with the potential to be more. I certainly don't see a downgrade while paying him much less. So win win for me.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't believe I made any point about Kugler working some magic. If anything I believe just getting out of the dumpster fire that is the Giants, having some consistency at OC and having a better QB will improve Hernandez. Not Kugler.

I simply made the point that Kugler hasn't had many young players to develop.

My opinion about RG is we have trotted out Jones, Murray, Sweezy, Garcia and Vujnovich there in recent years and that Hernandez is younger and at least equal to any of them in talent, with the potential to be more. I certainly don't see a downgrade while paying him much less. So win win for me.

Yes, we have trotted out that collection of players and recently, it has resulted in Kyler getting hurt. I get where you say that we are no worse with Hernandez, and can accept that but I also know that we are no better with him as well. And no better will likely result in Kyler getting hurt once again. Expecting a different outcome with the same players just isn't realistic to me.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Cards have now signed Greg Long, a guard out of Purdue who also has ties to Sean Kugler the OL coach. It's common for a coach to want guys he's familiar with but here's to hoping that it can be more than a camp body and acquiring proper technique goes farther than just athletic ability for the position

 

[football karma]

Expecting a different outcome with the same players just isn't realistic to me.

im with you here

although -- this group also followed the same formula as nearly all position groups last year:

"the ___________ was good for the first 10 weeks, but after the bye, they were terrible."

 

[cardpa]

Except it's not based off hope.

Almost the entire opinion of Hernandez is based off PFF stats. Or the opinions of Giants blogs who gained that opinion from looking at PFF stats.

Hernandez's biggest problem is picking up stunts and if he's uncovered and goes looking for work he forgets he's still responsible for that gap if any late rushers join the party because he plays in front of a QB that holds the ball too long. Both things that can be remedied.

Let me finish this sentence for you "still hasn't learned it in four years in the NFL and odds are he never will."

 

[BritCard]

Let me finish this sentence for you "still hasn't learned it in four years in the NFL and odds are he never will."

It's not a difficult thing to learn though.

 

[Jetstream Green]

It's not a difficult thing to learn though.

That's the point cardpa is making, it's not difficult to learn and yet he still has problems with it. My general opinion of Hernandez is he's that big brawler type people like to call 'nasty', and frankly the type of physical player we need more of on both sides of the lines, but he has no control over his emotions and forgets then what he's responsible for

 

[Vacard]

Coaches need talent, there’s only so many thing you can do to players who actually lack NFL talent going up against Bosa, Aaron Donald and other NFL players four times per season.

 

[DaHilg]

Coaches need talent, there’s only so many thing you can do to players who actually lack NFL talent going up against Bosa, Aaron Donald and other NFL players four times per season.

And for this year we can include going up against this as well.. REALLY HOPE, we sign/trade a true upgrade at least 1 OL position;

-Mack and Bosa

-Crosby and C Jones

-Chubb and Gregory

-Shaq Barrett and an overall +++ DLine

-KC’s DLine is no slouch

 

[cardpa]

It's not a difficult thing to learn though.

Yes, but my point is he's been in the league for four years now and still hasn't learned it. Do you really think the coaching was so poor in NY that they didn't try to teach him this? Maybe that's part of the reason they let him go.

 

[BritCard]

Yes, but my point is he's been in the league for four years now and still hasn't learned it. Do you really think the coaching was so poor in NY that they didn't try to teach him this? Maybe that's part of the reason they let him go.

Well he's had 4 OL coaches in 4 years. It's possible it fell through the cracks.

It's not like it happens all the time. It's just that if you were going to hunt through his film for his biggest weakness I'd say that's one of them.

It's not a massive concern considering it's not like he's going to be seeing stunts all the time and when he does he copes with most.