Gabberts challenge, to equal Palmer

[pmacLean]

Palmer had a rocky start in AZ in 2013, and then finished the season with 10 wins.

At the risk of being repetitive (actually, it is repetitive, I've posted it elsewhere here) here are Palmer and Gabbert stats for the first 3 games (both had 1 win and 2 losses).

.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS
Palmer....66....114...57.6....762....6.6.......3.....4....9
Gabbert...62....104...59.6....719....6.9.......6.....5....9


Eerily similar, missing is the following
Points scored with Palmer - 56 points against 79
Points scored with Gabbert - 64 points against 87

We scored more points with Gabbert (makes sense if you look at the TD numbers) and more
points against with Gabbert (I am not going to list the 2013 defense, but I looked at it, and it seemed a better group than we have now ... Campbell, Dockett, Mathieu Version 1.0, etc.... look it up if you want.... and I am pretty damn sure our STs were not nearly as pathetic back then).


NFL.com QBR for the 3 games (and W or L, for win or loss)
Palmer - 96.6 (L), 73.5 (W), 43.4 (L)
Gabbert - 92.4 (L), 83.3 (W), 62.1 (L)

So, a significantly smaller drop-off with Gabbert (because we actually run some now ? I know pass blocking is just as bad as it was).

I haven't looked, I have no doubt this MB was alive with 'palmer is washed up' and 'palmer doesn't belong in the NFL' posts back then, ... look it up if you want.

So, Palmer's numbers for the next game in that 10 win season is this (and this is what Gabbert should beat), which he won 13-10 over Tampa Bay:

.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS.....QBR
Palmer....21....38....55.3....248....6.5.......1.....2....1........62.2

Looks top me like the D helped him out there, not sure with Bettcher, that the D can do the same with Gabbert.

Point here is Gabbert could DESTROY Palmer's performance in his 4th game and still be called a loser, backup and a goat if we don't win.

Gabbert needs to play the rest of the year. Palmer needs to shut up about re-activating and spend time with his family.

 

[Dude]

Palmer had a rocky start in AZ in 2013, and then finished the season with 10 wins.

At the risk of being repetitive (actually, it is repetitive, I've posted it elsewhere here) here are Palmer and Gabbert stats for the first 3 games (both had 1 win and 2 losses).

.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS
Palmer....66....114...57.6....762....6.6.......3.....4....9
Gabbert...62....104...59.6....719....6.9.......6.....5....9


Eerily similar, missing is the following
Points scored with Palmer - 56 points against 79
Points scored with Gabbert - 64 points against 87

We scored more points with Gabbert (makes sense if you look at the TD numbers) and more
points against with Gabbert (I am not going to list the 2013 defense, but I looked at it, and it seemed a better group than we have now ... Campbell, Dockett, Mathieu Version 1.0, etc.... look it up if you want.... and I am pretty damn sure our STs were not nearly as pathetic back then).


NFL.com QBR for the 3 games (and W or L, for win or loss)
Palmer - 96.6 (L), 73.5 (W), 43.4 (L)
Gabbert - 92.4 (L), 83.3 (W), 62.1 (L)

So, a significantly smaller drop-off with Gabbert (because we actually run some now ? I know pass blocking is just as bad as it was).

I haven't looked, I have no doubt this MB was alive with 'palmer is washed up' and 'palmer doesn't belong in the NFL' posts back then, ... look it up if you want.

So, Palmer's numbers for the next game in that 10 win season is this (and this is what Gabbert should beat), which he won 13-10 over Tampa Bay:

.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS.....QBR
Palmer....21....38....55.3....248....6.5.......1.....2....1........62.2

Looks top me like the D helped him out there, not sure with Bettcher, that the D can do the same with Gabbert.

Point here is Gabbert could DESTROY Palmer's performance in his 4th game and still be called a loser, backup and a goat if we don't win.

Gabbert needs to play the rest of the year. Palmer needs to shut up about re-activating and spend time with his family.

Might be better than Warner's first 3 games we better give him a five year 150 million dollar deal.

 

[oaken1]

Palmer had a rocky start in AZ in 2013, and then finished the season with 10 wins.

At the risk of being repetitive (actually, it is repetitive, I've posted it elsewhere here) here are Palmer and Gabbert stats for the first 3 games (both had 1 win and 2 losses).

.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS
Palmer....66....114...57.6....762....6.6.......3.....4....9
Gabbert...62....104...59.6....719....6.9.......6.....5....9


Eerily similar, missing is the following
Points scored with Palmer - 56 points against 79
Points scored with Gabbert - 64 points against 87

We scored more points with Gabbert (makes sense if you look at the TD numbers) and more
points against with Gabbert (I am not going to list the 2013 defense, but I looked at it, and it seemed a better group than we have now ... Campbell, Dockett, Mathieu Version 1.0, etc.... look it up if you want.... and I am pretty damn sure our STs were not nearly as pathetic back then).


NFL.com QBR for the 3 games (and W or L, for win or loss)
Palmer - 96.6 (L), 73.5 (W), 43.4 (L)
Gabbert - 92.4 (L), 83.3 (W), 62.1 (L)

So, a significantly smaller drop-off with Gabbert (because we actually run some now ? I know pass blocking is just as bad as it was).

I haven't looked, I have no doubt this MB was alive with 'palmer is washed up' and 'palmer doesn't belong in the NFL' posts back then, ... look it up if you want.

So, Palmer's numbers for the next game in that 10 win season is this (and this is what Gabbert should beat), which he won 13-10 over Tampa Bay:

.........Comp...Att...Pct....Yards...AvgPass...TD...Int..SACKS.....QBR
Palmer....21....38....55.3....248....6.5.......1.....2....1........62.2

Looks top me like the D helped him out there, not sure with Bettcher, that the D can do the same with Gabbert.

Point here is Gabbert could DESTROY Palmer's performance in his 4th game and still be called a loser, backup and a goat if we don't win.

Gabbert needs to play the rest of the year. Palmer needs to shut up about re-activating and spend time with his family.

cool stats.
Palmer had two pro-bowl seasons before he came to az... Gabbert has had zero pro bowl seasons.

Palmers w/l record his first seven years was 46-51.... Gabberts,..10-33?? Carson won more than Gabbert started...

In their first seven years in the nfl Palmer threw for 154 TD's... Gabbert has thrown for 44...

in their first seven seasons Palmer passed for 22,694 yards,....Gabbert has passed for 8,070

over their respective careers Palmer has a completion percentage of 62.5, while Gabberts completions are at 56.2...in the first seven seasons Palmers was at 62.3....with Palmer having a best season at 67.8% while Gabberts best season was at 63.1%, he only played 8 games that season..

in 2015 Carson Palmer passed for 4,671 yards and 35 Touchdowns in the NFL...
that single season equals greater than half of what Gabbert has produced over his seven years in the NFL..

so, yeah.... anyone could see why we might be hesitant to anoint Gabbert the savior at QB when it is clear Carson Palmer has been superior,...and we didnt even make it to the Superbowl with Palmer.....so,..are we just supposed to have faith that Blaine Gabbert is going to somehow be the Arizona Cardinals version of Trent Dilfer??

 

[cardncubfan]

Gabbert will be a decent back up in this league. Nothing more.

 

[WisconsinCard]

BG also had a half season to watch and learn the system, a luxury CP wasn't afforded.

 

[pmacLean]

cool stats.
....
....
....

so, yeah.... anyone could see why we might be hesitant to anoint Gabbert the savior at QB when it is clear Carson Palmer has been superior,...and we didnt even make it to the Superbowl with Palmer.....so,..are we just supposed to have faith that Blaine Gabbert is going to somehow be the Arizona Cardinals version of Trent Dilfer??

no anointing or declaring saviors... the whole point is, Palmer sucked his first several outings in this 'super complex' offense and Gabbert has done no worse, with arguably a worse supporting cast...

the point is, we need to see what is there (if anything) and if you base it on his first 3 games, then the proper thing to do with Palmer in 2013 was dump him at that point... which of course, we didn't and it turned out pretty good....

the point is, no one knows yet ...

 

[RugbyMuffin]

no anointing or declaring saviors... the whole point is, Palmer sucked his first several outings in this 'super complex' offense and Gabbert has done no worse, with arguably a worse supporting cast...

That is a valid point.

Carson Palmer is a very good QB, but his play in 2015 was an outlier of his normal stats, so while it is a showing of Palmers ceiling, it is not what you normally get out of Palmer.

That all being said, you are correct, this message board was.......I would not say down on Palmer, but as a collection, there was not a belief he was "the guy".

Once he started to get the feel of the offense, he became much better.

I feel Blaine Gabbert should have the chance to learn the system, and play in it. He has four more games to do so.

When it comes to 2018? It matters on IF Carson Palmer even comes back. It matters on IF Blaine Gabbert is re-signed or can be re-signed. It matters IF the Cardinals sign a quarterback. That Gabbert gets that chance.

Personally, I say draft a QB. Then see what happens.

 

[TJ]

the point is, we need to see what is there (if anything) and if you base it on his first 3 games, then the proper thing to do with Palmer in 2013 was dump him at that point... which of course, we didn't and it turned out pretty good....

the point is, no one knows yet ...

The point is, Gabbert has been flat garbage his entire career. There's more than a three-game sample size from which to evaluate. You can't turn a blind eye to his past failures, especially since he's proven in his three games with the team that he still has a penchant for turnovers and irresponsible decision making.

When you say "no one knows," well, there are plenty of people who know, and it's those who are cognoscente of his lack of accomplishments and measurable failure to produce. You can choose to hold out hope, but it simply boils down to Gabbert is not the future of this franchise.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The point is, Gabbert has been flat garbage his entire career. There's more than a three-game sample size from which to evaluate. You can't turn a blind eye to his past failures, especially since he's proven in his three games with the team that he still has a penchant for turnovers and irresponsible decision making.

When you say "no one knows," well, there are plenty of people who know, and it's those who are cognoscente of his lack of accomplishments and measurable failure to produce. You can choose to hold out hope, but it simply boils down to Gabbert is not the future of this franchise.

I think Gabbert lacks the ability to process information fast enough for the pros. He has all the physical traits you want from an elite QB, he has the intelligence but processing that info in the moment is a different story. Too bad football is not like baseball and a pitcher which one can allot a guy a hundred starts without getting hit in order to ingrain the decision making where the mental reflex might be overcome. Gabbert might not be the future of the Cardinals but I think as a backup he certainly has a future with the franchise.... question is, can he accept that role if those amazing but flawed traits of his makes him want to be a starter when his sample size with us where to show otherwise

 

[juza76]

Arizona had a much better defense

 

[Veer]

Gabbert and Palmer aren't really that different. Of course Palmer had a long and fairly successful career, at least when you look at stats. Obviously he's much more polished than Gabbert could ever be, since Palmer went to USC and had good coaches early in his NFL career. Palmer really has a great understanding of the game. Gabbert played in a spread offense in college, and was forced to start as a rookie on one of the worst teams in recent memory. Both have talented arms, are fairly accurate when given time and can win games for you. But at the same time, they make just too many boneheaded mistakes, costly turnovers at the worst times, and during the most important games. I'm absolutely sure, if we sign Gabbert for the next 2 or 3 years, he could be really close to Palmer in his Cardinal prime. But will he ever win a Superbowl? Unless our defense turns into the 85 Bears and DJ turns out to be the next LT, the chance is almost zero.

 

[JeffGollin]

Gabbert and Palmer aren't really that different. Of course Palmer had a long and fairly successful career, at least when you look at stats. Obviously he's much more polished than Gabbert could ever be, since Palmer went to USC and had good coaches early in his NFL career. Palmer really has a great understanding of the game. Gabbert played in a spread offense in college, and was forced to start as a rookie on one of the worst teams in recent memory. Both have talented arms, are fairly accurate when given time and can win games for you. But at the same time, they make just too many boneheaded mistakes, costly turnovers at the worst times, and during the most important games. I'm absolutely sure, if we sign Gabbert for the next 2 or 3 years, he could be really close to Palmer in his Cardinal prime. But will he ever win a Superbowl? Unless our defense turns into the 85 Bears and DJ turns out to be the next LT, the chance is almost zero.

Based on what we've seen thus far: Gabbert is quicker/more mobile. Palmer is more accurate deep.

 

[oaken1]

no anointing or declaring saviors... the whole point is, Palmer sucked his first several outings in this 'super complex' offense and Gabbert has done no worse, with arguably a worse supporting cast...

the point is, we need to see what is there (if anything) and if you base it on his first 3 games, then the proper thing to do with Palmer in 2013 was dump him at that point... which of course, we didn't and it turned out pretty good....

the point is, no one knows yet ...

and the point is also that Palmer's history gave the staff and fans a reason to believe he could produce better than he did in those first few games... Gabberts history does not instill that same faith.

 

[PJ1]

I can't believe we are making a comparison. You look at the entire body of work and it isn't worth the effort.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think Gabbert lacks the ability to process information fast enough for the pros.

I am not making an argument for Gabbert, but Josh McCown had the same problem for a long time before he got the hang of processing the information more quickly.

McCown in NY is WAY different then the guy who played for the Cardinals.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I can't believe we are making a comparison. You look at the entire body of work and it isn't worth the effort.

We? Sounds like you want no part of it ?

 

[oaken1]

I am not making an argument for Gabbert, but Josh McCown had the same problem for a long time before he got the hang of processing the information more quickly.

McCown in NY is WAY different then the guy who played for the Cardinals.

This is true. But we cant wait 5 more years for Gabs to get caught up to McCown either...

Still love that guy though...remember that time the safety(or was it a LB?) tried to drop thunder on Josh...and got himself knocked out cold?? LOL.... Drago was always a beast.... actually,...if Gabbert had the same heart and desire that McCown had back then...he would be so much easier to back

 

[Jetstream Green]

I am not making an argument for Gabbert, but Josh McCown had the same problem for a long time before he got the hang of processing the information more quickly.

McCown in NY is WAY different then the guy who played for the Cardinals.

I think it's related to my comment about a pitcher being able to play 'x' amount of games and then being able to overcome this thought process because they have seen it so much as McCown who has been able to hold on long enough where it no longer is a glaring difficulty though it is still enough to prevent him from being the guy which leads you to a championship. Experience but experience is a slow teacher

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This is true. But we cant wait 5 more years for Gabs to get caught up to McCown either...

Still love that guy though...remember that time the safety(or was it a LB?) tried to drop thunder on Josh...and got himself knocked out cold?? LOL.... Drago was always a beast.... actually,...if Gabbert had the same heart and desire that McCown had back then...he would be so much easier to back

I do not think Blaine Gabbert's future is in AZ. Its a double-edged sword. He plays well, the Cardinals won't sign him to a big contract. He plays poor, and he is a backup.

As for if he will develop into something ? I have really no opinion. I do not see his future here, so I do not bother thinking about.

But, I have to say, the point made in this post, is very valid.

 

[oaken1]

I do not think Blaine Gabbert's future is in AZ. Its a double-edged sword. He plays well, the Cardinals won't sign him to a big contract. He plays poor, and he is a backup.

As for if he will develop into something ? I have really no opinion. I do not see his future here, so I do not bother thinking about.

But, I have to say, the point made in this post, is very valid.

... have to feel bad for the guy though... I bet he will always wonder what could have been... had he been drafted by a solid team instead of thrown into a dumpster fire to start his career. some consistency in system and coaching could have made all the difference for him... not "Brady"... but maybe "Flacco"

 

[nashman]

I’ll go ahead and say while BG missed some throws today he hung tough while getting smacked around all day. He made some good throws and had some good runs we haven’t seen from a QB in AZ for along time. He did not turn the ball over which is saying something with some hits he took. The little roll out right screen pass late in the game to Foster was more what we should be doing to move our non existent pocket. We moved down the field fairly well then BA would go back to terrible play calls, and forget about some of the creative ones that got us there! But still no TOs against a hard hitting D in a close game. It’s hardly fair to properly judge him imo anyway with a terrible Oline, no DJ, and no one outside 11 who can catch the damn ball. I’m not sold on him, but imo better than Stanton and the Cards were smart they would sign him now to be the backup or starter if we drafting a QBOF. We could sign him now fairly cheap if we wait and he really starts getting the hang of the offense it could end up costing us much more.

 

[Buckybird]

... have to feel bad for the guy though... I bet he will always wonder what could have been... had he been drafted by a solid team instead of thrown into a dumpster fire to start his career. some consistency in system and coaching could have made all the difference for him... not "Brady"... but maybe "Flacco"

Lol

No disrespect but come on Oak the guy is what he is! If only Wiz didn't like or ruin Leinart

Gabbert has played long enough to now to know without a doubt, his skills & athletic ability are far more better than his ability to be a starting & productive, winning QB.

 

[Finito]

Oh god

 

[nashman]

Lol

No disrespect but come on Oak the guy is what he is! If only Wiz didn't like or ruin Leinart

Gabbert has played long enough to now to know without a doubt, his skills & athletic ability are far more better than his ability to be a starting & productive, winning QB.

No disrespect, but you state this as a fact when it clearly isn’t. He’s never been in a system long enough to really control or own it so to speak. He has the tools, one could simply argue he’s never had stability in any system or coaching to reach his potential. He’s better than Stanton and could be had I bet for less than half of what we are paying DS to hold a freaking clipboard!

 

[Matt L]

I do not think Blaine Gabbert's future is in AZ. Its a double-edged sword. He plays well, the Cardinals won't sign him to a big contract. He plays poor, and he is a backup.

As for if he will develop into something ? I have really no opinion. I do not see his future here, so I do not bother thinking about.

But, I have to say, the point made in this post, is very valid.

Do you think another team will offer him a multi-year, starting QB level contract? I doubt the Cardinals do but I really doubt another team would make an offer. I could see a backup level contract with escalators in place for starting X amount of games and maybe for specific stats.i can't see any team just giving him a contract like the one the bears gave to that guy who everyone said the Cardinals wanted to trade for (can't remember his name but he went to NC State and then played in the NFL for a really bad team).