LoyaltyisaCurse
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Gabe Watson: scumbag?
- Thread starter nathan
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Scot1
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Based on what his sister writes, it sounds like this guy Jones is the scumbag, wanting to extort a cash payment out of Gabe.
LoyaltyisaCurse
IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
I sent a follow up email...
Funny how people from the Cardinals message board can get a second side of the Gabe Watson story (His sister Latina), yet your reporter does not even bother. From Azcardinals.com:
"I can honestly tell you that he is not happy about all of this. Honestly, I have talked to Jones myself. I was there when the insurance paper was finally faxed over and I saw both vehicles listed- and the prices for them. Gabriel paid for the insurance on both vehicles.
I was one of the people who asked Jones to sign over the vehicle (which would have relieved him of any financial responsibility), so that the bills could be paid. No one wanted to continue to pay Jones when we had proof that even though he was paid.... one payment on the vehicle had been skipped.
he had several opportunities to release liability, but he did not take advantage of them, so... the car was returned. Why keep a car with no tags, and continue to pay a person who was not being honest with payment amounts and isnt willing to sign over the vehicle.
Actually, at one point, Jones told me that he wanted to keep the car and drive it for a few months while Gabe paid the bill for it. Hmmm... I wonder what would have happened if Gabe would have given him untraceable cash? All of this could have been avoided with a signature, but Jones didnt mention that."
Here is More:
"Originally Posted by Minyoun1977
I can't say much about this, but here are some questions you might want to ask yourself....
1. If it was a co-signing deal, why wasnt Gabe's name on any of the paperwork?
2. Why wasn't Gabriel's name on any of the insurance?
3. Why, when a payment was made, was there no payment made by Jones to the car company in December of the same year?
4.Did anyone contact Chrysler credit to find out why Jones was NOT willing to sign over the vehicle so that it could be paid off, but instead said- give me 35000.00 in cash or I won't sign it over? I wouldnt advise anyone to pay cash for something that doesnt have their name on it.
Just a few questions that some might want to think about before bashing. Believe me, the questions above are legitimate, but for some reason, no one wants to look into the ENTIRE story."
More:
"When asked by a financial advisor, for paperwork so that the car could be purchased, he said "I dont want you to pay Chrysler Financial, give me the money, cash in hand."
The reason why the car wasnt driven after 6 months is because Jones wouldnt get the tags renewed on the vehicle (which was in his name only).
Why did the family pay for not only the insurance for the Charger, but was unknowingly paying for Jones' Escalade insurance as well. Jones continuously requested more money than required for Charger payments and refused to provide any paperwork.
The original dealership knew exactly what was going on because they were contacted when Gabe's family was trying to get information for Chrysler financial so that Jones would no longer be overpaid while Gabe was driving the vehicle.
Jones was asked REPEATEDLY to sign over the vehicle so that Gabe could become financially responsible for it, and purchase outright. But, again, he refused and wanted cash (which cannot be traced) in hand before he would sign over the vehicle. By the way, the full cost to buy the vehicle was approximately 27,000.00 not the 35,000.00 that Jones was demanding.
This entire situation could have been handled long ago, if the vehicle was simply signed over to Gabe. But, because of Jones' reluctance, the two stood at an impasse. And, now, because he didnt get the additional funds, and things didnt follow his plan, he wants to embarass and humiliate our family.
This is part of the second of the story. You may believe what you will."
Seems to me, that it is incumbent for your news department to present more than one side before making your claims.
Again, where is the balance? Also, how are the Cardinals responsible for this? Why do they have to respond to this when its not their problem?
Funny how people from the Cardinals message board can get a second side of the Gabe Watson story (His sister Latina), yet your reporter does not even bother. From Azcardinals.com:
"I can honestly tell you that he is not happy about all of this. Honestly, I have talked to Jones myself. I was there when the insurance paper was finally faxed over and I saw both vehicles listed- and the prices for them. Gabriel paid for the insurance on both vehicles.
I was one of the people who asked Jones to sign over the vehicle (which would have relieved him of any financial responsibility), so that the bills could be paid. No one wanted to continue to pay Jones when we had proof that even though he was paid.... one payment on the vehicle had been skipped.
he had several opportunities to release liability, but he did not take advantage of them, so... the car was returned. Why keep a car with no tags, and continue to pay a person who was not being honest with payment amounts and isnt willing to sign over the vehicle.
Actually, at one point, Jones told me that he wanted to keep the car and drive it for a few months while Gabe paid the bill for it. Hmmm... I wonder what would have happened if Gabe would have given him untraceable cash? All of this could have been avoided with a signature, but Jones didnt mention that."
Here is More:
"Originally Posted by Minyoun1977
I can't say much about this, but here are some questions you might want to ask yourself....
1. If it was a co-signing deal, why wasnt Gabe's name on any of the paperwork?
2. Why wasn't Gabriel's name on any of the insurance?
3. Why, when a payment was made, was there no payment made by Jones to the car company in December of the same year?
4.Did anyone contact Chrysler credit to find out why Jones was NOT willing to sign over the vehicle so that it could be paid off, but instead said- give me 35000.00 in cash or I won't sign it over? I wouldnt advise anyone to pay cash for something that doesnt have their name on it.
Just a few questions that some might want to think about before bashing. Believe me, the questions above are legitimate, but for some reason, no one wants to look into the ENTIRE story."
More:
"When asked by a financial advisor, for paperwork so that the car could be purchased, he said "I dont want you to pay Chrysler Financial, give me the money, cash in hand."
The reason why the car wasnt driven after 6 months is because Jones wouldnt get the tags renewed on the vehicle (which was in his name only).
Why did the family pay for not only the insurance for the Charger, but was unknowingly paying for Jones' Escalade insurance as well. Jones continuously requested more money than required for Charger payments and refused to provide any paperwork.
The original dealership knew exactly what was going on because they were contacted when Gabe's family was trying to get information for Chrysler financial so that Jones would no longer be overpaid while Gabe was driving the vehicle.
Jones was asked REPEATEDLY to sign over the vehicle so that Gabe could become financially responsible for it, and purchase outright. But, again, he refused and wanted cash (which cannot be traced) in hand before he would sign over the vehicle. By the way, the full cost to buy the vehicle was approximately 27,000.00 not the 35,000.00 that Jones was demanding.
This entire situation could have been handled long ago, if the vehicle was simply signed over to Gabe. But, because of Jones' reluctance, the two stood at an impasse. And, now, because he didnt get the additional funds, and things didnt follow his plan, he wants to embarass and humiliate our family.
This is part of the second of the story. You may believe what you will."
Seems to me, that it is incumbent for your news department to present more than one side before making your claims.
Again, where is the balance? Also, how are the Cardinals responsible for this? Why do they have to respond to this when its not their problem?
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
Sounds like there are two sides to the story. It also sounds as if neither party handled the situation particularly well.
I realize it's easy for me to "be generous with someone else's money", but if I was Gabe's advisor or PR rep, I'd suggest that (a) he issue a statement that there was the possibility of missed communications and that he feels badly about creating false impressions but here's his side of the story and then (b) announce that he is donating a similar amount of money to some other worthy local cause (Gabe presumably is being paid enough to afford this).
It's Watson's good name that is most threatened by this controversy. I'd make clearing it and putting it in a good light his #1 priority.
Finally, the title of this thread is unfair. I hope the orignator will modify it.
I realize it's easy for me to "be generous with someone else's money", but if I was Gabe's advisor or PR rep, I'd suggest that (a) he issue a statement that there was the possibility of missed communications and that he feels badly about creating false impressions but here's his side of the story and then (b) announce that he is donating a similar amount of money to some other worthy local cause (Gabe presumably is being paid enough to afford this).
It's Watson's good name that is most threatened by this controversy. I'd make clearing it and putting it in a good light his #1 priority.
Finally, the title of this thread is unfair. I hope the orignator will modify it.
phillycard
ASFN Addict
Holy smokes LIAC! You made this dude look totally inept. I'd be real surprised if he responds.
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Only a mod can change a thread title. We have asked for that ability for w while now.
Just a thought how this could eventually come back to a Michigan/ NCAA probe. Watson and his co signer could be opening up Pandora's box.
How could Gabe Watson even fit in a Dodge Charger?
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Now THAT is the $64,000 question.
LoyaltyisaCurse
IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
The reporter left a message on my voice mail today asking me to give him a call...I just heard the message now,as I just got home from work.
I am going to call him back tomorrow. I wonder if I struck a nerve. I will keep the board updated.
CardsFan88
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What I find funny is that the reporter also erred on another factor. The groping player that we have? You mean Jake Plummer lol? For something that he did in college over 10 years ago. Been off our team for what 3 years? Currently is retired? But we're filled with them lol.
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Who really cares about this?!! Is it a surprise that an NFL player seems to be nothing more than an overpaid, immoral, piece of garbage. I don't watch football expecting the players to be choir boys. In my mind that was the whole problem with the MacGinnis philosophy..."we've got good guys on this team...guys with good hearts." What a load of BS! Personally, I want a guy hungry to rip the opposing guys head off on my team. None of that MacGinnis good guy garbage. You saw what that did! A bunch of pansies in pads. Just because they're NFL players does not mean you have to let your children idolize them. I just assume NFL players are bad guys unless proven otherwise. Welcome Gabe...destroy the opposing Centers!!!!
JeffGollin
ASFN Icon
What's with the need to judge instantly all the time here. Why not simply give the issue an "incomplete" until more facts come out and things develop?So, what's the verdict? Is Gabe Watson a scumbag?
I was joking, hence the smile. I have seen this thread for the last week and think that the label of "scumbag" in the title may be a bit harsh.
But I do agree this story is a joke. It was created by a Detroit TV station and I guess they feel they must protect "their" local man so it's totally twisted to toward the teacher. Then, apparently every employer (the Arizona Cardinals in this case) is supposed to discipline their employees based on actions they have performed prior to employment or outside of the workplance, thus they have created a petition to send to the Cardinals management. This is a civil issue, not a criminal one, and it's a pathetic attempt by the journalist.
.
Last edited:
RonF
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Gabe Watson Story
Teacher helps Watson, learns lesson
Former coach says he is owed about $10,000 from car deal; Cardinals DT's agent disagrees
Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 28, 2007 12:00 AM
For a teacher, there are few greater rewards than bumping into former students and feeling that you, at least in some small way, positively influenced them.
But Baxter Jones, a Detroit middle school teacher and coach, said a chance meeting with Cardinals defensive tackle Gabe Watson nearly two years ago turned into a disaster, costing Jones around $10,000, hurting his credit rating and causing so much stress that friends were worried for his health.
Jones insists he's out for justice, not vengeance. "I just want him (Watson) to do what's right," Jones said.
advertisement
What's right, Jones said, is for Watson to repay him. A fourth-round pick by the Cardinals last year, Watson signed a three-year contract worth $1.43 million, including a $347,000 signing bonus.
At issue is a car lease that Jones agreed to sign, allowing Watson to take possession of a new Dodge Charger. The car was in Jones' name, but Watson and his father, Chuck, agreed to cover the $520.81 monthly payments as well as the insurance.
After a few months, Jones said, the payments stopped, and Jones was stuck with a car he didn't want and couldn't afford.
Jones is willing to talk at length about the issue, although he refrains from calling names and still thinks Watson is a good person who needs to own up to his mistake.
"It's like no one is giving him the right type of advice," Jones said. "You're a professional athlete, you're in the limelight, and you're expected to behave a certain way."
Watson won't talk about the issue. He referred questions to his agents, brothers Drew and Jason Rosenhaus, who declined to answer questions on the subject.
"Gabe feels he's more than fairly compensated the gentleman," Jason Rosenhaus said. "He feels like he's being exploited because of his status as an NFL player. He has no legal or moral obligation to this guy. I have no further comment."
How Watson is being exploited is unclear. Jones has documents - e-mails from Watson's father, loan documents, copies of canceled checks - that seem to support his claims.
The story began in summer 2005, a few months before the start of Watson's senior year at Michigan. Jones taught Watson at a middle school in Detroit and remembers Watson as a big kid who coaches talked into playing basketball.
In summer 2005, Watson and Jones bumped into each other at a track meet and exchanged phone numbers. A few weeks later, Watson called Jones to ask if he would be willing to co-sign so he could lease a new car. Watson explained that his parents didn't have a good enough credit rating.
Jones was reluctant but agreed to at least go to the dealership. He ended up signing a lease, even though he knew the risk, because he trusted that Watson and his father would make payments to him.
"I pulled Gabriel aside and said, 'I don't want any stuff. I can't afford two cars.' "
When he was given the documents, Jones noticed that Watson's name wasn't on them. According to Jones, the salesman explained that because Watson was an amateur athlete with no job, his name couldn't be on the lease.
"I fell for this," Jones said.
Through the remainder of 2005, the relationship worked. Jones was contacted by the University of Michigan's compliance office, which wanted to verify that he wasn't a Michigan booster. If he had been, the car would have been an NCAA violation.
Watson's father regularly paid Jones for the car and insurance, and Jones was content that he had done a good thing for a former student.
But after December 2005, the payments stopped. Watson's father called Jones to tell him he could come over to the Watsons' house to pick up the car any time.
"I said, 'I don't want that car,' " Jones said. "We kind of got into it and had harsh words. I never got another payment."
Chuck Watson did not respond to interview requests.
The car mysteriously was dropped off at the dealership one night. No keys were in it. Jones never received another payment. What he did get was a $520.81 monthly bill that he couldn't afford, not to mention insurance costs and nearly $400 of parking tickets that Watson allegedly accrued in Ann Arbor, Mich.
Jones had a lawyer friend call Chuck Watson to try and mediate. He paid a lawyer $500 to write a letter asking the Watsons to fulfill their part of the bargain.
Finally, he turned to a local TV station that runs a feature called "Problem Solvers."
The station did two stories about the situation. The second one was about another Detroit dealership that agreed to take the car off Jones' hands.
Jones is relieved to be rid of the monthly payment, but he estimates he's still out about $10,000. His credit rating plunged 100 points when he was late on other bills in order to make the car payment.
He hasn't given up his goal of forcing Watson to do what he calls the right thing. He has contacted the Cardinals and NFL officials. His friends have started a petition drive.
Although Jones is upset with Watson, he said the issue hasn't made him less inclined to help a student.
"As teachers and coaches in the inner city, when dealing with disadvantaged student, you are always going into your pockets," he said. "You would hate to be come cynical. The kids are needy.
"We don't do this for the money. We do it because we want to help people. This is not the first time I've been burned, but this is the first time to this extent."
Teacher helps Watson, learns lesson
Former coach says he is owed about $10,000 from car deal; Cardinals DT's agent disagrees
Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 28, 2007 12:00 AM
For a teacher, there are few greater rewards than bumping into former students and feeling that you, at least in some small way, positively influenced them.
But Baxter Jones, a Detroit middle school teacher and coach, said a chance meeting with Cardinals defensive tackle Gabe Watson nearly two years ago turned into a disaster, costing Jones around $10,000, hurting his credit rating and causing so much stress that friends were worried for his health.
Jones insists he's out for justice, not vengeance. "I just want him (Watson) to do what's right," Jones said.
advertisement
What's right, Jones said, is for Watson to repay him. A fourth-round pick by the Cardinals last year, Watson signed a three-year contract worth $1.43 million, including a $347,000 signing bonus.
At issue is a car lease that Jones agreed to sign, allowing Watson to take possession of a new Dodge Charger. The car was in Jones' name, but Watson and his father, Chuck, agreed to cover the $520.81 monthly payments as well as the insurance.
After a few months, Jones said, the payments stopped, and Jones was stuck with a car he didn't want and couldn't afford.
Jones is willing to talk at length about the issue, although he refrains from calling names and still thinks Watson is a good person who needs to own up to his mistake.
"It's like no one is giving him the right type of advice," Jones said. "You're a professional athlete, you're in the limelight, and you're expected to behave a certain way."
Watson won't talk about the issue. He referred questions to his agents, brothers Drew and Jason Rosenhaus, who declined to answer questions on the subject.
"Gabe feels he's more than fairly compensated the gentleman," Jason Rosenhaus said. "He feels like he's being exploited because of his status as an NFL player. He has no legal or moral obligation to this guy. I have no further comment."
How Watson is being exploited is unclear. Jones has documents - e-mails from Watson's father, loan documents, copies of canceled checks - that seem to support his claims.
The story began in summer 2005, a few months before the start of Watson's senior year at Michigan. Jones taught Watson at a middle school in Detroit and remembers Watson as a big kid who coaches talked into playing basketball.
In summer 2005, Watson and Jones bumped into each other at a track meet and exchanged phone numbers. A few weeks later, Watson called Jones to ask if he would be willing to co-sign so he could lease a new car. Watson explained that his parents didn't have a good enough credit rating.
Jones was reluctant but agreed to at least go to the dealership. He ended up signing a lease, even though he knew the risk, because he trusted that Watson and his father would make payments to him.
"I pulled Gabriel aside and said, 'I don't want any stuff. I can't afford two cars.' "
When he was given the documents, Jones noticed that Watson's name wasn't on them. According to Jones, the salesman explained that because Watson was an amateur athlete with no job, his name couldn't be on the lease.
"I fell for this," Jones said.
Through the remainder of 2005, the relationship worked. Jones was contacted by the University of Michigan's compliance office, which wanted to verify that he wasn't a Michigan booster. If he had been, the car would have been an NCAA violation.
Watson's father regularly paid Jones for the car and insurance, and Jones was content that he had done a good thing for a former student.
But after December 2005, the payments stopped. Watson's father called Jones to tell him he could come over to the Watsons' house to pick up the car any time.
"I said, 'I don't want that car,' " Jones said. "We kind of got into it and had harsh words. I never got another payment."
Chuck Watson did not respond to interview requests.
The car mysteriously was dropped off at the dealership one night. No keys were in it. Jones never received another payment. What he did get was a $520.81 monthly bill that he couldn't afford, not to mention insurance costs and nearly $400 of parking tickets that Watson allegedly accrued in Ann Arbor, Mich.
Jones had a lawyer friend call Chuck Watson to try and mediate. He paid a lawyer $500 to write a letter asking the Watsons to fulfill their part of the bargain.
Finally, he turned to a local TV station that runs a feature called "Problem Solvers."
The station did two stories about the situation. The second one was about another Detroit dealership that agreed to take the car off Jones' hands.
Jones is relieved to be rid of the monthly payment, but he estimates he's still out about $10,000. His credit rating plunged 100 points when he was late on other bills in order to make the car payment.
He hasn't given up his goal of forcing Watson to do what he calls the right thing. He has contacted the Cardinals and NFL officials. His friends have started a petition drive.
Although Jones is upset with Watson, he said the issue hasn't made him less inclined to help a student.
"As teachers and coaches in the inner city, when dealing with disadvantaged student, you are always going into your pockets," he said. "You would hate to be come cynical. The kids are needy.
"We don't do this for the money. We do it because we want to help people. This is not the first time I've been burned, but this is the first time to this extent."
RonF
Per Ardua Ad Astra
If this story is true, it only gives one side of the story, it appears that the teacher was stiffed by the father and Gabe never intervened to straighten things out.
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Already has been posted.
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=87775&highlight=scumbag
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=87775&highlight=scumbag
seesred
Registered User
A personal issue. This is not a news story IMO it belongs in the courts.
GBR
40
GBR
40
Gabes sister posted the families version on another site .. there is definitely 2 sides to this story and the above article is only one ...
Leave it to the Republic to only print the version that paints the Cards or one of their players in a negative hue.
Watson and his agent refused to comment. Somers can't be expected to dig through message board posts allegedly written by Watson's sister.
tnmike
Hall of Famer
Fraud
I have been in the car business for 30 years. What these people have done is called in the business a " straw deal". This is an act of fraud not only by the people that signed for the car but also the dealer that represented the deal to the lender.This is an highly illegal deal that possibly could put the people that committed it in jail if the bank pursues it in court.Where I live this happens occassionally but it is rarely prosecuted that I am aware of.
I have been in the car business for 30 years. What these people have done is called in the business a " straw deal". This is an act of fraud not only by the people that signed for the car but also the dealer that represented the deal to the lender.This is an highly illegal deal that possibly could put the people that committed it in jail if the bank pursues it in court.Where I live this happens occassionally but it is rarely prosecuted that I am aware of.
So in your opinion, who is at fault here? Though Watson is not liable, is he morally culpable? Tell us more. How is it fraud for the signer?
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