Gambo & Ash Ranting About Kobe & Tracy Again

[Yuma]

Like Scotsman and I, and I believe George, have been pointing out, even if we get KOBE and don't have to trade ANYONE to do it. We still have the same problems on defense and rebounding that we will have had before signing Kobe!! Plus in my experince, look at the Mavs, you can sign as many good players to superstar players you want, but there are still only so many minutes in the game. The Law Of Diminishing Returns kicks in. Just like with nuclear weapons. You can nuke a country 100 times, but they can only die once. It always seems you add a ton of guys that average twenty points per game to a team and viola, not all of them can average 20 points a game!! So the team scoring average doesn't soar off the charts! Now will the trade be a good move fiscally? I think it's brilliant in terms of selling season tickets!! Will it bring an NBA Championship? That is no way near an automatic as a lot of people are saying. It still depends on Amare, Lampe, Carbarkapra, JJ, etc., improving for us to win it. Even then other teams are loading up on players. You could argue Cleveland is closer to an NBA Championship, or Denver, than us right now!

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by scotsman13
the biggest problem with this whole both tmac and kobe thing is who is going to be doing anything beside scoring? who will rebound? get steals? play defense? amare can man the paint (in time he will get to be a better defender). oh and who is going to get the ball? remember that there is only one ball. tmac will want to score his 27 a game, kobe his 23+ a game, and amare will want his 20+ a game. and then remember the old adage going inside out. do you think that kobe and tmac will take a backsit to amare? houston is finding that they are having problem with their guards not wanting to do this. how will kobe and tmac take it?

Kobe and TMac both average about 6apg and 6apg plus some steals and also blocks.

Look at what most SGs and SF combinations in the league are totaling in rebounding, let alone PG/SG combination.

Kobe is an all nba first team defender, TMac is a good defender as well.

Neither Kobe nor TMac are dribbling the time of the shotclock without going anywhere.
They are complete players.

Dallas has NO player on Kobe's or TMac's level , not even Amare if he keeps improving.

JJ/Kobe/TMac/Amare/plus center
That team has every potential in the world with the right coaching to be very good defensively. And a defensive center could probably still be signed with the money that is left over in some scenarios, like Adonal Foyle maybe because he is going to be cheaper than Dampier, Camby or Okur.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
Kobe and TMac both average about 6apg and 6apg plus some steals and also blocks.

Look at what most SGs and SF combinations in the league are totaling in rebounding, let alone PG/SG combination.

Kobe is an all nba first team defender, TMac is a good defender as well.

Neither Kobe nor TMac are dribbling the time of the shotclock without going anywhere.
They are complete players.

That's why I don't understand these people. They would prefer Marcus Camby or Erick Dampier over Kobe Bryant. And that, my friends, is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sure, rebounding is an issue, but Kobe's presence changes the way the team is run dramatically.

 

[Yuma]

Kobe is an all nba first team defender, TMac is a good defender as well.

I will give you the Kobe being a good defender when he tries to stop someone. The last game I watched Tmac play, he continually let his man beat him up the court. He also slumps off a lot and doesn't try to press on defense. He does get the occasional weak side shot block, but Joe Johnson plays way better defense than Tmac. Tmac is an incredible offensive powerhouse, but don't try and sell him as a good defender!!!

 

[Yuma]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's why I don't understand these people. They would prefer Marcus Camby or Erick Dampier over Kobe Bryant. And that, my friends, is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sure, rebounding is an issue, but Kobe's presence changes the way the team is run dramatically.

That's true Chap, but the posts I have seen here wanting a big man in the offseason have been because people feel we aren't going to get Kobe. Not because they think Kobe is not as good as a good big man. I will admit I am wrong if we do sign Kobe, but I just think, when Kobe sits down, LA gives him more exposure and better PR deals, plus if he leaves Shaq still has a better shot to win in LA than Kobe somewhere else, so why not stay, get paid, and get a ring. (sorry for the long run-on sentence)

 

[Yuma]

So did Joe Mama squash Gambo and Ash again?

Did Chaplin not want to discuss Kobe anymore?

Why does it seem like I kill all the threads?

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
That's why I don't understand these people. They would prefer Marcus Camby or Erick Dampier over Kobe Bryant. And that, my friends, is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Sure, rebounding is an issue, but Kobe's presence changes the way the team is run dramatically.

Why do keep repeating this myth?

My primary objection is paying to clear cap space that I do not believe will be used. This is like putting all your chips into the pot before getting to see what cards you drew.

The standard scenerio involves getting rid of White, 9at a time his trade value will be at its highest) plus getting rid of the lottery draft pick to clear cap space. If the Suns failed to sign Kobe, it would put the team back substantially. There is no other player worth the price of clearing the space -- yet no one can even talk to Kobe first. (We'll ignore the court case for the time being).

By pretending that the issue is whether the $13 million should be used on Kobe or Camby is just not the point. Repeating that claim is silly and distracts from the real costs of clearing cap space.

There are some people on the board who think that Kobe's egomania would hurt the team. I don't. There are more people who think that adding Kobe, but playing small ball, will not get the Suns any closer to the championship. I tend to lean that way, but I am willing to discuss alternatives. Kobe and small gets the team to the playoffs, but not beyond.

But I am not convinced that giving up the Suns only physical center, a lottery pick and whatever else it would take to clear cap space is a good bet. Considering Kobe won't have to declare until after the expansion draft, I am pretty nervious about the plan.

Are there any alternatives to perpetual small ball if the Suns do sign Kobe? What CAN the Suns do to avoid being outrebounded by 20 rpg next season when playing all small ball? Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to how the Suns can fill their needs with only the veteran minimum available? For example, Malone signed for a minimum contract last year. Is there someone that could help?

Ironically, having the option of signing Dampier or Camby makes clearing the space LESS risky than making signing Kobe the only alternative. Ironically, most Kobe fans are so fixated on signing Kobe that they reject all consideration of alternatives if Kobe just says "no". What CAN the Suns do if they pay for the extra cap space? Is it really Kobe or bust?

The bottom line is that I am not convinced that the Colangelos are going to best Jerry Buss. I can't remember them ever besting Buss in the past, so is it reasonable to conclude that they will this time?

This whole scenerio feels like "drawing to an inside straight" (an extremely poor bet). Nothing anyone has said make me feel getting into this pot is worth the ante.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by George O'Brien



The bottom line is that I am not convinced that the Colangelos are going to best Jerry Buss. I can't remember them ever besting Buss in the past, is it reasonable to conclude that they will this time?

Yes, it's reasonable, and yes, they've done it in the past.

AC Green - 1993

 

[Yuma]

My primary objection is paying to clear cap space that I do not believe will be used. This is like putting all your chips into the pot before getting to see what cards you drew.

That's called going all in, my friend!! I learned that watching celebrity poker!!

You are right! The Colangellos have never bested Jerry Buss!

Don't get me wrong, if we signed Kobe, I would hope like hell we win the NBA Championship!! I do that now anyway.

Ironically, I had the Lakers commentators on my broadcast, and they said Jahidi played Shaq the best any opposing center played him all season long!! That says something since most Western Conference teams worry about matching up with Shaq at the center position. Personally, I think it was because they weren't going to Shaq a lot in our game!

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by newfan101
Yes, it's reasonable, and yes, they've done it in the past.

AC Green - 1993

I stand corrected. (That was before I moved to Phoenix and I don't remember the situation).

I was thinking of Robert Horry for Cedric (defense, what's defense?) Ceballos who was let go the following summer. Sure Horry was a problem, but the Suns still got ripped.

 

[Yuma]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I stand corrected. (That was before I moved to Phoenix and I don't remember the situation).

I was thinking of Robert Horry for Cedric (defense, what's defense?) Ceballos who was let go the following summer. Sure Horry was a problem, but the Suns still got ripped.

You beat me to it!! I was going with Horry, too. I don't recall AC Green getting us a championship. When did that happen?

 

[Yuma]

Oh, and by the way, the Suns tried to sign Wilt Chamberlain after he retired from LA, and the Lakers put a kibash on that real fast since they still kept his rights even after he retired. Wilt didn't come back with the Lakers at that time since he knew he would be backing up Kareem.

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by Yuma
Oh, and by the way, the Suns tried to sign Wilt Chamberlain after he retired from LA, and the Lakers put a kibash on that real fast

F them. The friggin’ Lakers have had Mikan, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, and O’Neal. We’ve had Rick Robey, William Bedford, Hot Rod Williams, and L*c L*****y. We must have done something truly heinous in a previous life to merit such a curse.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

I was thinking of Robert Horry for Cedric (defense, what's defense?) Ceballos who was let go the following summer. Sure Horry was a problem, but the Suns still got ripped.

As I remember it, Horry was big problem. Ainge tried to make him into something he wasn't, and he was pissed. He threw a towel in the coaches face. That was back when trades weren't impossible, and you moved the player, not fire the coach.

Plus, didn't we get Joe Klein too?

Oh, and by the way, the Suns tried to sign Wilt Chamberlain after he retired from LA, and the Lakers put a kibash on that real fast since they still kept his rights even after he retired. Wilt didn't come back with the Lakers at that time since he knew he would be backing up Kareem.

I wasn't around when this went down, but that doesn't seem like the Lakers got the "best" of the Suns. There wasn't much the suns could do.


Has there ever been a FA player (either a full out FA, or one from the Lakers or Suns) that both teams actually competed for? I guess AC Green is one, but any others?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by capologist
F them. The friggin’ Lakers have had Mikan, Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, and O’Neal. We’ve had Rick Robey, William Bedford, Hot Rod Williams, and L*c L*****y. We must have done something truly heinous in a previous life to merit such a curse.

not to mention we lost a coin flip for kareem (and ended up with ned wulk) and a coin flip for david robinson (and ended up with armon gilliam). we are definitely cursed at the center position. but it seems that we've been blessed with guards:

ronnie lee
kyle macy
dennis johnson
paul westphal
walter davis
horny
kj
thunder
cassell
kidd
marbury
finley
nash

i mean, that's an incredible array of guards to have played for this team.

 

[devilalum]

Originally posted by Ouchie-Z-Clown
not to mention we lost a coin flip for kareem (and ended up with ned wulk) and a coin flip for david robinson (and ended up with armon gilliam). we are definitely cursed at the center position. but it seems that we've been blessed with guards:

Neal Walk?

Otherwise known as the Missing Link

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by devilalum
Neal Walk?

Otherwise known as the Missing Link

ned wulk . . . what am i thinking?