Game #138-San Diego Padres (64-72) @ Arizona Diamondbacks (70-67). 9/2/19

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BC867

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Wow... that’s some crazy talk if there ever was any crazy talk!
What basis are you using that makes you believe we’ve “gone as far as possible” with Torey as manager? Must be our roster that matches teams like the Dodgers in terms of payroll, talent and experience... right? [emoji15]
The answer to that is job evaluation. Everyone faces it on their job. As they should.

Torey has been slow to react to situations. And, with his constant in-game shifting
of players from position to position in 3- and 4-man switches, our fielding has
become sloppy.

Rojas moved from LF to 2B and immediately collided with Ahmed. It is not only Bush
league, but it doesn't help a rookie trying to build confidence. Which is one of the
jobs of a manager. In fact, Torey was quoted as saying that he doesn't put a
priority of developing young players. That is a management shortcoming.

Torey has also been accused of trying to please all of his players, rather than
assigning roles.

And it has taken almost a whole season for the team to advance beyond mediocre
.500 play. It would take a collapse of all of the other teams ahead of us for us to
make the second and last Wild Card spot.

Bottom line -- Torey is a nice guy. Perhaps too nice a guy. But it has taken him too
long to take the team beyond mediocrity with our only winning streak.

Evaluating whether he can take the D-backs to the next level is indeed a legitimate
discussion on a board such as this. There is nothing "crazy" about sdscard4's post.
 

82CardsGrad

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The answer to that is job evaluation. Everyone faces it on their job. As they should.

Torey has been slow to react to situations. And, with his constant in-game shifting
of players from position to position in 3- and 4-man switches, our fielding has
become sloppy.

Rojas moved from LF to 2B and immediately collided with Ahmed. It is not only Bush
league, but it doesn't help a rookie trying to build confidence. Which is one of the
jobs of a manager. In fact, Torey was quoted as saying that he doesn't put a
priority of developing young players. That is a management shortcoming.

Torey has also been accused of trying to please all of his players, rather than
assigning roles.

And it has taken almost a whole season for the team to advance beyond mediocre
.500 play. It would take a collapse of all of the other teams ahead of us for us to
make the second and last Wild Card spot.

Bottom line -- Torey is a nice guy. Perhaps too nice a guy. But it has taken him too
long to take the team beyond mediocrity with our only winning streak.

Evaluating whether he can take the D-backs to the next level is indeed a legitimate
discussion on a board such as this. There is nothing "crazy" about sdscard4's post.

You must know by now that your opinions on Torey are considered to be extremely biased and lacking in objectivity and context.

You fail to accept the realities associated with this team or, for that matter, that are associated with professional sports where team construction is governed by # of players and payroll limitations.

Torey has indeed shifted players around... but what manager hasn't? In fact, how is it even possible not to shift players around given injuries and the focus now on multi-faceted players who have the ability to play multiple positions.
You do know that Rojas has spent most of his career as an infielder (mostly as a second baseman), right?

The fact that you seem let down that this team has remained at or around .500 most of the season is further testament to your inability to be objective. (You do know that there are only 2 teams in our way of reaching the post season, not a "bunch," right?)
Most people see this and are amazed that the team has been able to remain competitive for as long as they have, and are entirely blown away that they are now 11 & 4 over their past 15 games! Yet, you somehow seem to believe that other managers would've been able to sprinkle some type of magic pixie dust that would've prevented key injuries and somehow, with the exception of Escobar and Marte, gotten a bunch average-at-best players to play at all-star levels.

To be clear, I have no idea if Torey has the chops to coach a championship team as he's never been given a legitimate chance. That said, based upon his performance as a manager over nearly 3 years, coaching marginally talented teams with zero depth to lean on - I can 100% say that I believe, if he's given a legitimate team to work with - he will produce extremely positive results.
He's now 246 & 216 for his career, with two post season appearances. On this team? Managing this franchise? With no money and a historically trashed farm system?? With a team that was paying one guy $30 million a year?? With season-ending injuries to key guys who were counted on to be large contribnutors (Taijuan Walker, Luke Weaver, Souza and now Perralta who has been playing hurt for 2/3rds of the season)?? With unproven talent/rookies all over the roster??

The fact that you somehow expect more W's out of that mess simply underscores in very bold lines, your immense bias and inability to be objective. It calls into question your knowledge of sport and, regardless of how many people or for how long you once "managed," I honestly have a very difficult time seeing you as an effective manager. Your consistent fall-back position of blaming the manager, soley and always, makes me even question if you could have ever been in charge of a team/department...

And yes, comments suggesting Torey needs to go are minimally, WHACKY. ;)
 

sdscard4

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This year hes done a decent job. I still have a hard time with the awful collapse of last year. The Dodgers payroll has nothing to do with Torey. The fielding has regressed and the strange day off formula he uses is crazy. The ultimate guy who has this team playing good is Hazen his eye for talent is great. Sadly i think Torey has taking us as far as possible. Id like to get a pure bball guy kinda old school who will shy away from the analytics when needed. Hence the bunt that would have swept LA
 

sdscard4

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You must know by now that your opinions on Torey are considered to be extremely biased and lacking in objectivity and context.

You fail to accept the realities associated with this team or, for that matter, that are associated with professional sports where team construction is governed by # of players and payroll limitations.

Torey has indeed shifted players around... but what manager hasn't? In fact, how is it even possible not to shift players around given injuries and the focus now on multi-faceted players who have the ability to play multiple positions.
You do know that Rojas has spent most of his career as an infielder (mostly as a second baseman), right?

The fact that you seem let down that this team has remained at or around .500 most of the season is further testament to your inability to be objective. (You do know that there are only 2 teams in our way of reaching the post season, not a "bunch," right?)
Most people see this and are amazed that the team has been able to remain competitive for as long as they have, and are entirely blown away that they are now 11 & 4 over their past 15 games! Yet, you somehow seem to believe that other managers would've been able to sprinkle some type of magic pixie dust that would've prevented key injuries and somehow, with the exception of Escobar and Marte, gotten a bunch average-at-best players to play at all-star levels.

To be clear, I have no idea if Torey has the chops to coach a championship team as he's never been given a legitimate chance. That said, based upon his performance as a manager over nearly 3 years, coaching marginally talented teams with zero depth to lean on - I can 100% say that I believe, if he's given a legitimate team to work with - he will produce extremely positive results.
He's now 246 & 216 for his career, with two post season appearances. On this team? Managing this franchise? With no money and a historically trashed farm system?? With a team that was paying one guy $30 million a year?? With season-ending injuries to key guys who were counted on to be large contribnutors (Taijuan Walker, Luke Weaver, Souza and now Perralta who has been playing hurt for 2/3rds of the season)?? With unproven talent/rookies all over the roster??

The fact that you somehow expect more W's out of that mess simply underscores in very bold lines, your immense bias and inability to be objective. It calls into question your knowledge of sport and, regardless of how many people or for how long you once "managed," I honestly have a very difficult time seeing you as an effective manager. Your consistent fall-back position of blaming the manager, soley and always, makes me even question if you could have ever been in charge of a team/department...

And yes, comments suggesting Torey needs to go are minimally, WHACKY. ;)
Hazen has given him a great roster for what we can afford. Lack of depth? What? Yes lots of injuries that our depth and rebuilt farm system has kept us going. You want us to field the Dodgers and spend millions and say here you go Torey? Lol cmon man. All i see is you really have your eyes set on debating the poster and not the topic.
 

BC867

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Lol cmon man. All i see is you really have your eyes set on debating the poster and not the topic.
I appreciate your support. We're here to share our opinions. I know I've benefitted by reading the opinions of fellow posters.

And I'm happy to say that, on 14,941 posts, I've never attacked a poster. As is the case with most of us.
 

sdscard4

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I appreciate your support. We're here to share our opinions. I know I've benefitted by reading the opinions of fellow posters.

And I'm happy to say that, on 14,941 posts, I've never attacked a poster. As is the case with most of us.
Totally agree....ive had many battles with posters and have said stuff i shoulda held off on. Ive also learned alot from those same posters lol.
 

82CardsGrad

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Hazen has given him a great roster for what we can afford. Lack of depth? What? Yes lots of injuries that our depth and rebuilt farm system has kept us going. You want us to field the Dodgers and spend millions and say here you go Torey? Lol cmon man. All i see is you really have your eyes set on debating the poster and not the topic.

LOL... OK:

The Dbacks have the 21st highest team payroll.

There are only 3 other teams in the NL that possess a lower team payroll than the Dbacks.

The Dbacks, up until this season were routinely ranked at the very bottom of the list in terms of farm system.

And yet, somehow you believe that Torey should be performing magic tricks...

Ok...o_O
 

sdscard4

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LOL... OK:

The Dbacks have the 21st highest team payroll.

There are only 3 other teams in the NL that possess a lower team payroll than the Dbacks.

The Dbacks, up until this season were routinely ranked at the very bottom of the list in terms of farm system.

And yet, somehow you believe that Torey should be performing magic tricks...

Ok...o_O
Id be fine with them keeping Torey but also wouldnt mind a vet coach. Im just like you GO Dbacks all day long....just seemed you were really riding BC hard over his opinion and then calling out his manager capabilities? Just seemed like an over the top reaction. Or i should just mind my own bizz? Thats the beauty of a public forum
 

82CardsGrad

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Id be fine with them keeping Torey but also wouldnt mind a vet coach. Im just like you GO Dbacks all day long....just seemed you were really riding BC hard over his opinion and then calling out his manager capabilities? Just seemed like an over the top reaction. Or i should just mind my own bizz? Thats the beauty of a public forum

BC is a one-trick pony... His go-to position is to attack the manager and disregard every other relevant dynamic. He does the same with the Suns as well, and I am sure that if he chose to engage in the Cards and Coyotes forums, he’d do the same there too.

He is of course entirely free to express his view, as misguided as it is, here on a public forum.
And I am free to do so as well... That is indeed the “beauty of a public forum.”

Anyway - I don’t care who the manager of this team is, it wouldn’t change the facts that are impossible to ignore - well, for most fans that is - and therefore, would not change the win total.
Torey has squeezed the maximum amount of juice from a very dried up piece of fruit. While most everyone who understand the game of baseball seem to grasp this reality, I remain stunned how this fact remains lost on a few of you...

The good news is ownership and the front office are keenly aware of what they/we have in Torey and he is not at all going anywhere anytime soon. [emoji106]
 

AZCB34

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It never ceases to amaze me that people who ultimately want the exact same thing insist on tearing each other apart. Not limited to this forum.
 

Shaggy

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It never ceases to amaze me that people who ultimately want the exact same thing insist on tearing each other apart. Not limited to this forum.

Crazy, isn't it.
 

BC867

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Crazy, isn't it.
I was not going to continue this topic.

But did we really tear each other apart?

Not once did I insult 82CardsGrad. Or get personal. But read his latest post.

BC is a one-trick pony ... His go-to position is to attack the manager ...
as misguided as it is, here on a public forum ...
While most everyone who understand the game of baseball seem to grasp
this reality, I remain stunned how this fact remains lost on a few of you...


Personal insults to try to win debates. I refuse to get sucked down to that
level. Not on a sports board. Not in my personal life.

In fact, my posts about Torey's performance have all been about specific
incidents. Such as multiple position changes during a game which resulted
in sloppy fielding. And not pushing the ball through the open left side of
the infield to win the Dodger game that we lost.

I am going to try to no longer respond to personal insults. The only way to
avoid them is avoid them.
 

82CardsGrad

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I was not going to continue this topic.

But did we really tear each other apart?

Not once did I insult 82CardsGrad. Or get personal. But read his latest post.

BC is a one-trick pony ... His go-to position is to attack the manager ...
as misguided as it is, here on a public forum ...
While most everyone who understand the game of baseball seem to grasp
this reality, I remain stunned how this fact remains lost on a few of you...


Personal insults to try to win debates. I refuse to get sucked down to that
level. Not on a sports board. Not in my personal life.

In fact, my posts about Torey's performance have all been about specific
incidents. Such as multiple position changes during a game which resulted
in sloppy fielding. And not pushing the ball through the open left side of
the infield to win the Dodger game that we lost.

I am going to try to no longer respond to personal insults. The only way to
avoid them is avoid them.

Fair enough... from now on, when I reply (and I'm really trying not to...), I'll keep it simple by stating "your wrong." ;)
 

BC867

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Fair enough... from now on, when I reply (and I'm really trying not to...), I'll keep it simple by stating "your wrong." ;)
You just don't get it, 82. "Your (check your grammar) wrong" is still a personal response.

I shouldn't have to "hide" from an insulting poster, but I am fed up with your personal attacks.
I have put you on Ignore. I will no longer see them.
 
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