Game of Thrones (HBO)

[slinslin]

Spoiler

well pretty sure that Tyrion or Arya will sacrifice themselves as Queenslayers, backstab Dany even if they get killed for it so that Jon becomes King

I liked that the Dragon was actually a Dragon this episode and didn't die so easily. The scorpions seemed unrealistic anyway for that time setting and way too heavy.

The Jaime story just sucks though, all that redemption arc for nothing.

Daenerys disapointing but they built her up to be this ever since she excuted the Tarlys.

 

[Western Font]

I never understood the craze there. "Let's name our kid 'Queen' in a fictional language from a television show ripe with incest, murder, and magic! There's no way it'll be a bad decision, we're only on season 3 and they don't mention her family history of being mentally unstable with a thirst for blood that often. We could read the books to find out if it'll blow up in our face but those aren't finished yet, and likely won't be done until she reaches legal drinking age so she can drown her sorrows that way if it doesn't work out."

+1000. There should be a
prophecy about someone naming their child after a TV character being doomed to regret it.

 

[Stout]

I knew folks would outline most of what sucked about this episode. One thing that hasn't been hit on yet:

Spoiler

Suddenly dragons don't just breathe fire; they breathe bombs. Like, since when would dragon fire tear apart the red keep? Even Harrenhal only burned, and that wasn't just one dragon. And not only that, since when can a dragon breathe like 5,000 bombs all at once? It's fantasy, I get that, but I'm never going to believe it can continuously breathe fire for most of the day. So very lame a direction to take it, especially since it would have been so easy to write it well. There's wildfire stashed all over the city--but only used at the end, and not for its bomb effect. A burning city is just as freaking scary--scarier--because it doesn't stop being a threat when the dragon isn't swooping over you. And it'll still destroy the damn city in the end. Oh, wait, then we wouldn't be able to drop a castle on Cersei and Jamie. Oh, wait, that would be a positive!

/rant.

 

[Western Font]

I guess I am in the minority. I love this final season. Not that I don’t have complaints. Much of this feels rushed and there is a certain character that bit it that deserves a slow death.

I guess I just resolved myself to that this final season would feel rushed once they announced a short and final season.

That episode was simply scorched earth and devastation.

I’m feeling a bit contrarian right now too. I am not bothered by the what that is happening. If what I wanted to happen came to pass in the show, Ned Stark would still be alive. And Robb Stark would have seen his vengeance though. But as we’ve often been reminded, that was the first lesson of the show: Littlefinger reminding Ned that he warned him not to trust him.

The limited season has the show buffeted between accusations of fan service and let-down. It needed a full 10 episodes or even another season to get Dany to this point.

 

[Town Drunk]

I’m feeling a bit contrarian right now too. I am not bothered by the what that is happening. If what I wanted to happen came to pass in the show, Ned Stark would still be alive. And Robb Stark would have seen his vengeance though. But as we’ve often been reminded, that was the first lesson of the show: Littlefinger reminding Ned that he warned him not to trust him.

The limited season has the show buffeted between accusations of fan service and let-down. It needed a full 10 episodes or even another season to get Dany to this point.

Yeah, I was wondering if this season would be different had they been able to utilize a full season’s worth of episodes, rather than the shortened season they’re operating with.

 

[Western Font]

Spoiler: Spoiler

I think Dany's descent has been happening for longer than most say. She's been power hungry for a long time and never planned on sharing power. I thought it was clear during her relationship with Dario that she wouldn't share power with Jon, who a lot of people predicted would end up with her. She cares more about making those who took the crown pay than wearing it herself. Rewatch old episodes and I think you'll see her path has been quite clear.

Spoiler

Yes, she has always been mad, the same way that every would-be ruler was mad in thinking they were entitled to dominion over a population. Her claims of breaking the wheel have always contained hypocrisy. She has shown (diminishing) empathy but little real interest in administration, and she abdicated responsibility (e.g., leaving the Bay of Dragons under the control of a sellsword).

Characters such as The Hound and Bronn have pointed out that every house just took what is has at some point. But Dany not only feels entitled to Westeros, she feels entitled to the love of the people that would justify it. Not getting it has made her question the destiny she lets herself believe, or at least angers her toward those who don’t accept it.

But because of the pace of the season, all these things are explored in a couple of conversations and a few facial expressions, followed by her retribution on the city.

(Side note: even the most fitting rulers who “don’t want the Iron Throne,” such as Ned and Jon, are nonetheless quite comfortable with their family holding dominion over a vast north for thousands of years, calling the banners and punishing subservient houses for breach of loyalty, etc. It’s not just a Dany/Cersei problem.)

 

[crisper57]

If okay with Dany's arc, but I wish we had been given more time to let it breathe. If you think about it, it has been a slow burn since she let her brother wear his crown of gold. She has always believed killing was the ultimate answer to her problems. She crucified Masters that ultimately turned out to be innocent. She burned the Khals alive to usurp their authority (were they really bad or just adhering to their cultural norms and traditions?). We were okay with all her previous murderous rampages because they happened to "bad" people or they were necessary moves to liberate slaves, etc. But honestly, her default setting has always been murder. It was only a steady stream of advisers that kept those impulses in check for the first six-ish seasons. But as she started to ignore them more and more last season, she was left without any checks. Combine that with her genetic predisposition for madness, and we all knew when she snapped, it would be really, really bad.

Spoiler

Through the whole episode, I kept thinking Arya was gonna find a working scorpion and use it to bring down Drogon (given all the time they've spent on her archery skills, it seemed like foreshadowing).

So next week, they have a lot of ground to cover. She has to deal with Tyrion's treason. Sansa will be her biggest enemy. Jon Snow is still her biggest rival. No doubt she has to die now. And Drogon. And Grey Worm. If Jon doesn't take the throne, I guess Gendry would be the next in line now that he is no longer a bastard?

 

[crisper57]

So I guess the Maggy the Frog prophecy kinda of works if you really, really stretch the meaning of the words?

 

[crisper57]

Also, to paraphrase Ghostbusters, "Jon, when someone asks you if you love them, you say YES!"

 

[crisper57]

I honestly did not have a problem with this episode as a standalone entry in GoT. It was perfectly fine and actually some of the best work they've done in the last 2 seasons. What made it not work were all the missed opportunities leading up to it. They didn't lay the groundwork for it properly, so it felt rushed and we felt cheated. I think people would be praising this episode, for the most part, if the last 2 seasons leading up to it hadn't been botched so badly.

Spoiler

The burning of the Iron Fleet: Hell yeah! Um, why couldn't she do that last week?
Euron v. Jamie: Great fight! Why are they fighting again?
Cercei and Jamie's demise: Fitting they go together, but why did he break free of her only to immediately go back to her?
Cleganebowl: Awesome and everything we needed in that confrontation since Day 1.
Varys' Execution: A great way for him to end his story, with the rest of him burned up. Would have liked to see the nature of his treason in more detail. Did he do anything other than write those letters and burn them?
Dany and her forces decimating the Golden Company: I knew something was coming, but not THAT. So that was a fist-pumping moment. But why go through the effort of introducing the Golden Company in the first place? Couldn't they have just said that Cercei had amassed enough allies to have a force that matched Dany's?
Arya turning away from death and choosing life, in some ways the inverse of Dany's arc. I liked this revelation. The horse? Not so much.
Jon and Grey Worm: Liked the time they spent showing their path's diverge. Grey Worm chooses vengeance, Jon chooses mercy.
Dany killing innocents: Not cool, but foreshadowed pretty heavily. Still, this will be the biggest negative takeaway from an episode that generally did a lot of things right, not because of what she did in the episode, but for how she got to this moment.

Above all, I hate what they have done to Tyrion. Supposedly the smartest man in the land, and he is the absolute last person to see that his faith was misplaced. Even when others used their final words to tell him that!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’m not as disappointed as most of you. I see the holes, but also knowing this all had to wrapped up in a single short season I expected some short cuts. I was disappointed in the war of the north more than last night’s episode.

Spoiler

the simplicity of Jamie and Cersei’s deaths was disappointing. How long have viewers wished a long and brutal death on Cersei? And reveled in Jamie’s resurrection? To lump them again in a brief and meaningless death seemed uneven. I’m okay with Jamie dying, but not like that with Cersei.

I’m good with dany. She was starting to become unhinged. It culminated.

Dragon bombs visually awesome, but agree it was a bit stepping too far.

I actually think it should end with dany killing all the starks and forcing Jon to be an unwilling slave-king alongside her for the good of the people. It’s been a dark and macabre take from the beginning . . . when has HBO shied away from ending it within the same vein?

 

[puckhead]

I honestly did not have a problem with this episode as a standalone entry in GoT. It was perfectly fine and actually some of the best work they've done in the last 2 seasons. What made it not work were all the missed opportunities leading up to it. They didn't lay the groundwork for it properly, so it felt rushed and we felt cheated. I think people would be praising this episode, for the most part, if the last 2 seasons leading up to it hadn't been botched so badly.

Spoiler

The burning of the Iron Fleet: Hell yeah! Um, why couldn't she do that last week?
Euron v. Jamie: Great fight! Why are they fighting again?
Cercei and Jamie's demise: Fitting they go together, but why did he break free of her only to immediately go back to her?
Cleganebowl: Awesome and everything we needed in that confrontation since Day 1.
Varys' Execution: A great way for him to end his story, with the rest of him burned up. Would have liked to see the nature of his treason in more detail. Did he do anything other than write those letters and burn them?
Dany and her forces decimating the Golden Company: I knew something was coming, but not THAT. So that was a fist-pumping moment. But why go through the effort of introducing the Golden Company in the first place? Couldn't they have just said that Cercei had amassed enough allies to have a force that matched Dany's?
Arya turning away from death and choosing life, in some ways the inverse of Dany's arc. I liked this revelation. The horse? Not so much.
Jon and Grey Worm: Liked the time they spent showing their path's diverge. Grey Worm chooses vengeance, Jon chooses mercy.
Dany killing innocents: Not cool, but foreshadowed pretty heavily. Still, this will be the biggest negative takeaway from an episode that generally did a lot of things right, not because of what she did in the episode, but for how she got to this moment.

Above all, I hate what they have done to Tyrion. Supposedly the smartest man in the land, and he is the absolute last person to see that his faith was misplaced. Even when others used their final words to tell him that!

I am aligned with Crisper here.

Spoiler

The Tyrion stuff was just awful. There's no way to sugercoat it. I'm meh on Jaime, could have been better and I think everyone wanted Cersei to feel it a bit more than she did but I guess her dying in a crumbling Red Keep is decently poetic.

I think Dany's arc was possible based on what others have mentioned previously, but we were shown this in like season 2:

You must be registered for see images attach

I imagine we'll see this again next week.

The 'magic horse' (lol) didn't really bother me too much as the Lord of Light seems very keen on helping her out at the most important times because she obviously has something more to accomplish.

It was tough to see Sandor go, but man, he went out in style.

Qyburn's death was perfect. :Boink: :splat:

I want to watch it again just to fill in some stuff I may have missed on the first view.

 

[Covert Rain]

I’m not as disappointed as most of you. I see the holes, but also knowing this all had to wrapped up in a single short season I expected some short cuts. I was disappointed in the war of the north more than last night’s episode.

Spoiler

the simplicity of Jamie and Cersei’s deaths was disappointing. How long have viewers wished a long and brutal death on Cersei? And reveled in Jamie’s resurrection? To lump them again in a brief and meaningless death seemed uneven. I’m okay with Jamie dying, but not like that with Cersei.

I’m good with dany. She was starting to become unhinged. It culminated.

Dragon bombs visually awesome, but agree it was a bit stepping too far.

I actually think it should end with dany killing all the starks and forcing Jon to be an unwilling slave-king alongside her for the good of the people. It’s been a dark and macabre take from the beginning . . . when has HBO shied away from ending it within the same vein?

Exactly what I brought up in my initial post. That death of one of those (let's call that person Individual one) especially deserved a slow and horrifying death IMO. It was too simple. I am OK with Dany and her direction too. That has been a slow burn for sometime IMO (Pun intended). I have seen it coming.

The rest? I am simply enjoying this season. Again, it feels rushed and I don't know why HBO felt the need to do this other than that maybe there wasn't just enough story to stretch it all out.

It's funny though...for the past several seasons I have heard people complain about how episodes drag before they get to the episode they have been waiting for. Now they are getting to the point and fans are still not happy.

P.S. I think the writers are genius. I think they planned this episode to be one long HOLY @#$@#$@#$@#. No. No. Then exhaust the hell out of the fans. I think they knew exactly what they were doing. Plus to film this from the perspective of the people on the ground was brilliant. Just my two cents.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I think it doesn’t help that it took them TWO YEARS to give us a collection of mostly mediocre TV. That is quite dissatisfying.

 

[Chaplin]

I will say the fact I am this irritated is probably what the writers were thinking when they scoped this out

BUT

It is for all the wrong reasons.

And WORSE

Spoiler

All that merchandise out there with Mother of Dragons or people who named their daughter Daenerys. Maybe got a tattoo

Because here was a bad ass fantasy character that women could look up to

Yeah about that

Again HBO has no idea the backlash that is coming it's way

HBO doesn't care.

 

[Chaplin]

I haven't been this irritated since Lost

Good thing it's almost over and it won't ruin your life anymore.

 

[puckhead]

Good thing it's almost over and it won't ruin your life anymore.

 

[Chaplin]

I think it doesn’t help that it took them TWO YEARS to give us a collection of mostly mediocre TV. That is quite dissatisfying.

Says you.

 

[Chaplin]

I knew folks would outline most of what sucked about this episode. One thing that hasn't been hit on yet:

Spoiler

Suddenly dragons don't just breathe fire; they breathe bombs. Like, since when would dragon fire tear apart the red keep? Even Harrenhal only burned, and that wasn't just one dragon. And not only that, since when can a dragon breathe like 5,000 bombs all at once? It's fantasy, I get that, but I'm never going to believe it can continuously breathe fire for most of the day. So very lame a direction to take it, especially since it would have been so easy to write it well. There's wildfire stashed all over the city--but only used at the end, and not for its bomb effect. A burning city is just as freaking scary--scarier--because it doesn't stop being a threat when the dragon isn't swooping over you. And it'll still destroy the damn city in the end. Oh, wait, then we wouldn't be able to drop a castle on Cersei and Jamie. Oh, wait, that would be a positive!

/rant.

Sounds like you don't understand what dragon fire is.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Says you.

Very astute observation.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Last night was the best episode thus far. Still unsatisfied with the season overall.

 

[Western Font]

If okay with Dany's arc, but I wish we had been given more time to let it breathe. If you think about it, it has been a slow burn since she let her brother wear his crown of gold. She has always believed killing was the ultimate answer to her problems. She crucified Masters that ultimately turned out to be innocent. She burned the Khals alive to usurp their authority (were they really bad or just adhering to their cultural norms and traditions?). We were okay with all her previous murderous rampages because they happened to "bad" people or they were necessary moves to liberate slaves, etc. But honestly, her default setting has always been murder. It was only a steady stream of advisers that kept those impulses in check for the first six-ish seasons. But as she started to ignore them more and more last season, she was left without any checks. Combine that with her genetic predisposition for madness, and we all knew when she snapped, it would be really, really bad.

Spoiler

Through the whole episode, I kept thinking Arya was gonna find a working scorpion and use it to bring down Drogon (given all the time they've spent on her archery skills, it seemed like foreshadowing).

So next week, they have a lot of ground to cover. She has to deal with Tyrion's treason. Sansa will be her biggest enemy. Jon Snow is still her biggest rival. No doubt she has to die now. And Drogon. And Grey Worm. If Jon doesn't take the throne, I guess Gendry would be the next in line now that he is no longer a bastard?

I’ve been rewatching the earlier seasons, and this reminds me of the scene where Dany confronts Mirri Maz Duur about how she could betray her after Dany saved her, and MMD says she had already been raped three times by the time Dany intervened, plus all her neighbors and students were brutally killed. And just before all this, Dany was ecstatic when Drogo finally agreed to invade Westeros and raved about how he would kill, rape, and enslave its people.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Good thing it's almost over and it won't ruin your life anymore.

I have loved the show until this episode. Doesn't damage the whole series, just a very poorly executed near finale. It feels like it should have another season left now.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Okay another thing I thought of this morning.

Tyrion made a nice mess here. His stated goal of giving Jamie the secret entrance into the Keep was to end the war and save tens of thousands of innocent lives.

He also could have just allowed the Unsullied and Jon just go up there and kill her at any point this season. That also saves tens of thousands of lives.

 

[Chaplin]

Okay another thing I thought of this morning.

Spoiler

My big question is: what's the point? Dany KNEW Cersei was up in the Red Keep, and for all intents and purposes, she destroyed it anyway, why not do that first and not completely destroy the city? I get they are trying to make her out to be the Mad Queen (who has green eyes by the way and will be killed by Arya), but it seems strange.