Game of Thrones Sequel with Jon Snow

oaken1

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It's far worse than procrastination. I used to excuse him as an artist, because I get how frustrating the process can get. Even when he was making other properties like Wild Cards, I defended him. Then he started doing everything he could to make millions upon millions off of Game of Thrones by doing anything but finishing SoIaF. Nah, not cool. Not cool at all. That's downright greed and disingenuous.
Dude was ever a screenwriter, not an author....and not a real good screenwriter at that.
Once he got a chance to be at the Pinnacle of his chosen profession it's just common sense that would take precedence in his life ... finally gets the respect and admiration of his peers....and better yet,...their envy
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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It's far worse than procrastination. I used to excuse him as an artist, because I get how frustrating the process can get. Even when he was making other properties like Wild Cards, I defended him. Then he started doing everything he could to make millions upon millions off of Game of Thrones by doing anything but finishing SoIaF. Nah, not cool. Not cool at all. That's downright greed and disingenuous.
Meh you do art for yourself not your audience. If he wants to make millions off his talent good on him.
 

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Meh you do art for yourself not your audience. If he wants to make millions off his talent good on him.
Hard disagree. He's not doing art at this point, rather monetizing everything he can get his hands on. He's ripping off the fan base and grabbing as much bag as possible doing so. Unless you think artists never do that, then I got nothing for you.

If he walks out tomorrow and says, "You know what? I'm done with GoT and I'm never going to finish the next book, let alone the series. I'm just going to make spinoffs." You're telling me you have no problem with that?
 

Chaplin

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Hard disagree. He's not doing art at this point, rather monetizing everything he can get his hands on. He's ripping off the fan base and grabbing as much bag as possible doing so. Unless you think artists never do that, then I got nothing for you.

If he walks out tomorrow and says, "You know what? I'm done with GoT and I'm never going to finish the next book, let alone the series. I'm just going to make spinoffs." You're telling me you have no problem with that?
At some point, he ceased creating it, but he DID create what's there, after all. At this point, he may not be creating art, but he's certainly exploiting the art he's already created. I think that's what Ouchie is saying. If you had a bestseller 15 years ago, wouldn't you take advantage of it if there was still some sort of demand for it? Regardless of what you are doing now?
 

Mulli

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He is milking it and has been even before the HBO series. That is at least one of the reasons the story goes on and on with dead end story lines that go on and on without any edits. :)

Yes, I have read the books.
 

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Hard disagree. He's not doing art at this point, rather monetizing everything he can get his hands on. He's ripping off the fan base and grabbing as much bag as possible doing so. Unless you think artists never do that, then I got nothing for you.

If he walks out tomorrow and says, "You know what? I'm done with GoT and I'm never going to finish the next book, let alone the series. I'm just going to make spinoffs." You're telling me you have no problem with that?

I understand your sentiment, but no one has to buy anything he puts out if they don't want to. If they are getting "ripped off," it's by choice.
 

Mulli

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I understand your sentiment, but no one has to buy anything he puts out if they don't want to. If they are getting "ripped off," it's by choice.
Ya, you can read and read and/or watch and watch to see what ends up happening to certain characters only to have him never come back to it or wait FOREVER to come back to it. Your fault not his. :)
 

puckhead

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Ya, you can read and read and/or watch and watch to see what ends up happening to certain characters only to have him never come back to it or wait FOREVER to come back to it. Your fault not his. :)

Even if he did finish the stories in some fashion, fans already feel so exploited that the denouement could never live up to the massive expectations.
 

Devilmaycare

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At some point, he ceased creating it, but he DID create what's there, after all. At this point, he may not be creating art, but he's certainly exploiting the art he's already created. I think that's what Ouchie is saying. If you had a bestseller 15 years ago, wouldn't you take advantage of it if there was still some sort of demand for it? Regardless of what you are doing now?
That depends on where you are in life. When you're 75 with not the greatest health and more money than you can spend you should be thinking about your legacy. Right now his legacy is a good writer who can't finish. He wanted to subvert Tolkien and he's succeeded at this point. Tolkien finished LotR.
 

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That depends on where you are in life. When you're 75 with not the greatest health and more money than you can spend you should be thinking about your legacy. Right now his legacy is a good writer who can't finish. He wanted to subvert Tolkien and he's succeeded at this point. Tolkien finished LotR.
Except you aren't in a position to say whether he thinks this is bad for his legacy or not. Maybe he doesn't care being a good writer who doesn't finish. He's making the choice to not finish his series, but he's likely not too upset since the checks from Warner Bros keep coming in.
 

Devilmaycare

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Except you aren't in a position to say whether he thinks this is bad for his legacy or not. Maybe he doesn't care being a good writer who doesn't finish. He's making the choice to not finish his series, but he's likely not too upset since the checks from Warner Bros keep coming in.
He's always cared about his legacy. This isn't something I'm pulling out of my butt. He's written about it. Based on what he's said in the past I can almost guarantee that he wouldn't be happy with what his legacy will be if he had a heart attack today. He wants to be mentioned in the same breath at Tolkien. That's not happening now. At least not in a positive way.
 

Chaplin

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He's always cared about his legacy. This isn't something I'm pulling out of my butt. He's written about it. Based on what he's said in the past I can almost guarantee that he wouldn't be happy with what his legacy will be if he had a heart attack today. He wants to be mentioned in the same breath at Tolkien. That's not happening now. At least not in a positive way.
So what? Even if that is true, what do you care?

Sure, we all wish he would finish his series, but it's a given that it's probably not going to happen. If that doesn't fit what he wants his legacy to be, so be it. He has nobody to blame but himself. But I'm not going to feel sorry for him.
 

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At some point, he ceased creating it, but he DID create what's there, after all. At this point, he may not be creating art, but he's certainly exploiting the art he's already created. I think that's what Ouchie is saying. If you had a bestseller 15 years ago, wouldn't you take advantage of it if there was still some sort of demand for it? Regardless of what you are doing now?
Exploiting is the word. And your scenario isn't remotely similar to what he's doing. I wouldn't begrudge him if he was desperate for the money to secure his life. It would still be exploiting and duping the fans, but at least there'd be a good reason. When you're filthy stinking rich, mo money, mo money,, mo money is just a dirtbag approach to the fans. It's repugnant and disgusts me. That isn't an artist--it's a con artist.
 

Chaplin

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Exploiting is the word. And your scenario isn't remotely similar to what he's doing. I wouldn't begrudge him if he was desperate for the money to secure his life. It would still be exploiting and duping the fans, but at least there'd be a good reason. When you're filthy stinking rich, mo money, mo money,, mo money is just a dirtbag approach to the fans. It's repugnant and disgusts me. That isn't an artist--it's a con artist.
Incorrect. When he wrote the first books, he wasn't even close to being what he is now. You can't retroactively condemn him because of that.
 

Devilmaycare

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Incorrect. When he wrote the first books, he wasn't even close to being what he is now. You can't retroactively condemn him because of that.
Exactly, he was hungry and had drive when he started. Now he's trying to rest on his laurels by milking the remaining fans. I'd have more respect for him if he at least came out and admitted that the books are dead instead of stringing everyone along for 4664 days now.
 

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Incorrect. When he wrote the first books, he wasn't even close to being what he is now. You can't retroactively condemn him because of that.
Who's talking about when he wrote the first books? Of course he wasn't what he is now back then. He wasn't exploiting anyone back then either. Now, when he is exploiting fans, he wants for nothing. He's stinking rich. I can absolutely condemn him for exploiting fans now that he's made his bag, and then some.

No idea why you went to his past.
 

Chaplin

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Who's talking about when he wrote the first books? Of course he wasn't what he is now back then. He wasn't exploiting anyone back then either. Now, when he is exploiting fans, he wants for nothing. He's stinking rich. I can absolutely condemn him for exploiting fans now that he's made his bag, and then some.

No idea why you went to his past.
You're basically trying to convince us that Martin is a con artist for not finishing his book series. That's a bit extreme, even for you.

How is he exploiting fans? He created art, yes or no? That art has been expanded upon by others. You can complain all you want about whether he's lazy or doesn't give a crap anymore because he's so rich, but what does that have to do with the cost of tea in china? You accused him of not being an artist. I disagree, that's all.
 

Stout

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You're basically trying to convince us that Martin is a con artist for not finishing his book series. That's a bit extreme, even for you.

How is he exploiting fans? He created art, yes or no? That art has been expanded upon by others. You can complain all you want about whether he's lazy or doesn't give a crap anymore because he's so rich, but what does that have to do with the cost of tea in china? You accused him of not being an artist. I disagree, that's all.
No, he's very much involved in every stage, which is part of the problem. He's still an artist, but continues to profit off everything milked from the original series without, you know, finishing the series. I'm not saying he isn't an artist. He just feels more like a con artist to me nowadays. What he does offends me as an artist and as a writer. It's just gross.
 

oaken1

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No, he's very much involved in every stage, which is part of the problem. He's still an artist, but continues to profit off everything milked from the original series without, you know, finishing the series. I'm not saying he isn't an artist. He just feels more like a con artist to me nowadays. What he does offends me as an artist and as a writer. It's just gross.
agree.
 
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