Game two- My thoughts on defense

[Snakester]

First let's thank Graves for not addressing this teams major needs on defense this offseason which were DE and CB in free agency. It's gonna be a long season for this defense. David Barrett is our only decent CB. Until we get some decent CBs our D wont stop anybody.

After watching this defense the last two weeks the worst thing is the coaching. Marmie has safety's playing LB, LBs playing on the line and defensive linemen dropping back in coverage. All these little tricks do is make our defense suck. If he want's to be creative do more blitzing but don't put players out of position just for the sake of it. Honestly I don't think Marmie knows what he is doing and should go.

CBs- David Barret played decent and is our only guy that can cover. The other guy's are not worth mentioning. Grade B

Safetys- Why Adrian Wilson was playing so much linebacker I have no idea. He hit's good but he has got to learn how to wrap up better. He had to many missed tackles. He was at least in position most of the time and I thought played better in coverage this week. Grade B-

Dexter Jackson- I thought he had a good game. Can't really complain about his game. He play's the run and the pass pretty solid. Grade B+

LBs Raynoch Thompson- Had a good game and was all over the field. Had a great leaping sack on the QB that was called roughing the passer but wasn't. He seems bigger and stronger this year. He is another player that needs a new contract this year. Grade A

Ron McKinnon- I have alway's loved this guy's heart and he has been a team player from day one but... He should be a backup, he just is not good enough anymore. He is blocked to easily, is to slow and is a liability in coverage. Grade C-

Levar Fisher- He is playing well. He had a tough time this last game. Seattle must have watched him against Detroit because they had a man on him most of the time. If it wasn't the guard#61 blocking him, it was the fullback or they would run away from him. He did good in coverage and took on there lead blocker quite a bit. He was also replaced a lot by our safety's and was playing on the line next to Pace a lot as well. I just don't think Marmie is using him very well. I'm surprised he was able to get in on the few tackles that I seen him assist on. Grade B+

DL- Calvin Pace- Made some good tackles. Caught the runner from behind ten yards down the field on one play and made a tackle in the backfield after being cut by Walter Jones. He hustles that's for sure. Now the bad new's. Walter Jones took him to school and showed what a real tackle can do to him. He had a tough game. Grade C+

Russell Davis- Get's in on a play here and there but is just a rotation guy. Get's pushed around most of the time but has good speed for a DT and does shoot a gap once in a while. Grade C

Wendal Bryant- He is getting better every game. He still has a way's to go but he is starting to look like the guy we were hoping for when we drafted him. Grade B-

Fred Wakefield- I like him as a rotation guy at the left DT position. He is playing hard but does not have the speed to create a pass rush on the outside. Grade C

Dennis Johnson- Tackle's really well. Is not showing as much speed as I had hoped that he would. I think he needs to lose about 15 or twenty pounds to get quicker on the edge. Is better than Wakefield at LE. Since King is out for a while I would start Johnson at LE over Wakefield. Grade B-

Barron Tanner- He held the line pretty well against Seattle. He is still just a rotation guy but had a pretty good game for him. Grade C

It sound's like we will get Bell back this week and boy can we use him. I think he is our best DT. Also I am curious to see how good Ransom is. Our line wont scare anybody but should be better in the middle with Bell coming back. Again let's thank Graves for not addressing a need here with free agency. Last but not least, the Cards need to play Gerald Hayes a whole lot more. I seen him take on a block this last game and again didn't give up ground and threw his man out of the way to almost get in on the tackle. Athleticly he looks like Raynoch Thompson only bigger.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Snakester
First let's thank Graves for not addressing this teams major needs on defense this offseason which were DE and CB in free agency. It's gonna be a long season for this defense. David Barrett is our only decent CB. Until we get some decent CBs our D wont stop anybody.

In fairness to RG there really weren't a lot of free agent CB's out there. Dre Bly got the biggest deal if I remember and he's not that good(although he scored against us).

The DE I agree with whiffing on Colvin and Holliday does hurt. Okeafor was another name we all tossed around that would have improved this team.

This should be a good draft and hopefully we'll get a DE and a CB out of it.

If we hadn't lost Starks I think the secondary would look a lot better. I said at the time he may have cost us 2-3 wins when he got hurt, hopefully that was the first 2 games!

 

[jf-08]

You do a very nice job of breaking things down.

But it sounds like you are putting all of the blame on the other CB position - I think more blame needs to be put on the lack of proactivity on the whole D side.

I am curious to see if you will include the coordinators and how they called the game too on future breakdowns.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

You said the defense can't stop anyone, but then you give them an overall grade of about a B-. Seems a little high.

 

[Snakester]

Originally posted by Oran
You said the defense can't stop anyone, but then you give them an overall grade of about a B-. Seems a little high.

If I grade out the Defense as a whole it would be like this.
Pass rush- D
Run Defense- C+
Pass Defense- D-
positions as whole-
CBs- D+
LBs- B
DL- C-
Ss- B
Coaching D
The reason I said we can't stop anyone is that we can't cover or rush the passer very well.

 

[Snakester]

Originally posted by jkf296
You do a very nice job of breaking things down.

But it sounds like you are putting all of the blame on the other CB position - I think more blame needs to be put on the lack of proactivity on the whole D side.

I am curious to see if you will include the coordinators and how they called the game too on future breakdowns.

I can break down what I think the coordinators are doing right and wrong if you would like me to. When I watch the games on tape I replay every down and watch what every player does as well as our defensive and offensive alignments.

I don't blame everything on the other CB position. My blame goes to the coaching and lack of pass rush as well.

Until we stop all of the turnovers it will be one ugly game after another regardless of how the players play as a whole.

 

[Snakester]

Re: Re: Game two- My thoughts on defense

Originally posted by Russ Smith
In fairness to RG there really weren't a lot of free agent CB's out there. Dre Bly got the biggest deal if I remember and he's not that good(although he scored against us).

The DE I agree with whiffing on Colvin and Holliday does hurt. Okeafor was another name we all tossed around that would have improved this team.

This should be a good draft and hopefully we'll get a DE and a CB out of it.

If we hadn't lost Starks I think the secondary would look a lot better. I said at the time he may have cost us 2-3 wins when he got hurt, hopefully that was the first 2 games!

First I think we should have either traded for Fred Smoot or drafted a CB in the first two rounds.

I agree with you about the whiffing of DEs in free agency.

We need to address both the DE and CB positions bigtime next year.

I agree that if Starks was playing we would be alot better at the CB position but... Graves should have signed or drafted a #2 CB period. We had nobody worth anything after Barret and he is really an ok third corner, not a #1 or #2.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Re: Game two- My thoughts on defense

Originally posted by Snakester
First I think we should have either traded for Fred Smoot or drafted a CB in the first two rounds.

I agree with you about the whiffing of DEs in free agency.

We need to address both the DE and CB positions bigtime next year.

I agree that if Starks was playing we would be alot better at the CB position but... Graves should have signed or drafted a #2 CB period. We had nobody worth anything after Barret and he is really an ok third corner, not a #1 or #2.

Remember it takes 2 teams to trade and with Bailey's contract unresolved it's possible the Smoot rumors weren't real. If he was available by all means we should have pursued him.

I guess in hindsight maybe Graves was hoping that someone like Bailey or Woodson would reach an impasse and get traded and we could swoop in with the best offer?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Although I would generally agree with most of your points, there are a couple of areas I would disagree with:

Originally posted by Snakester

After watching this defense the last two weeks the worst thing is the coaching. Marmie has safety's playing LB, LBs playing on the line and defensive linemen dropping back in coverage. All these little tricks do is make our defense suck. If he want's to be creative do more blitzing but don't put players out of position just for the sake of it. Honestly I don't think Marmie knows what he is doing and should go.

There's absolutely nothing about this that I would agree with. It would seem to me that maybe you need to go visit the football 101 website and do a little more homework. First of all Seattle ran the ball 2 ot of 3 plays in that game. It would appear that you fail to understand what the normal duties of a strong safety are: namely run support first. According to your take what? Could we expect to see a 2 deep zone on 1st and goal?
.....and I also find the statement "but don't put players out of position just for the sake of it" to be totally asinine. Do you honestly expect people to take you seriously when you post such obvious exaggerations?? I may not be totally sold on Marmie yet, but comments like ones in this paragraph are just flat ridiculous, in my opinion.


Safetys- Why Adrian Wilson was playing so much linebacker I have no idea.
see above


Ron McKinnon- I have alway's loved this guy's heart and he has been a team player from day one but... He should be a backup, he just is not good enough anymore. He is blocked to easily, is to slow and is a liability in coverage. Grade C-

just suffice it to say, I don't agree


Fred Wakefield- I like him as a rotation guy at the left DT position. He is playing hard but does not have the speed to create a pass rush on the outside. Grade C

Dennis Johnson- Tackle's really well. Is not showing as much speed as I had hoped that he would. I think he needs to lose about 15 or twenty pounds to get quicker on the edge. Is better than Wakefield at LE. Since King is out for a while I would start Johnson at LE over Wakefield. Grade B-

I was pleasantly surprised with Johnson's play. He was like Raynoch, everywhere on the field...I know he had at least 1 deflected pass. Coming into this season, the most common complaint about him was his strength and like Wakefield getting sucked out of position on too many plays. I didn't see that with either of them. If both these guys continue to play like they did this game, I don't think our DL woes are going to be as bad as a lot of people are predicting. I like the fact that DJ seems to have bulked up a little, appears stronger, yet still shows good mobility and isn't getting pushed around. As to Wakefields lack of speed being some kind of problem....I just didn't see it. In fact most of the time he was getting closer to Hasselbeck than Pace was, and made a couple of tackles for loss on running plays.


Again let's thank Graves for not addressing a need here with free agency.
:roll:

I seen him take on a block this last game and again didn't give up ground and threw his man out of the way to almost get in on the tackle.
Following this line of reasoning....Coby Rhinehart "almost got in on the tackle" of Darrell Jackson a couple of times.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by Snakester
First let's thank Graves for not addressing this teams major needs on defense this offseason which were DE and CB in free agency. It's gonna be a long season for this defense. David Barrett is our only decent CB. Until we get some decent CBs our D wont stop anybody.

After watching this defense the last two weeks the worst thing is the coaching. Marmie has safety's playing LB, LBs playing on the line and defensive linemen dropping back in coverage. All these little tricks do is make our defense suck. If he want's to be creative do more blitzing but don't put players out of position just for the sake of it. Honestly I don't think Marmie knows what he is doing and should go.

CBs- David Barret played decent and is our only guy that can cover. The other guy's are not worth mentioning. Grade B

Safetys- Why Adrian Wilson was playing so much linebacker I have no idea. He hit's good but he has got to learn how to wrap up better. He had to many missed tackles. He was at least in position most of the time and I thought played better in coverage this week. Grade B-

Dexter Jackson- I thought he had a good game. Can't really complain about his game. He play's the run and the pass pretty solid. Grade B+

LBs Raynoch Thompson- Had a good game and was all over the field. Had a great leaping sack on the QB that was called roughing the passer but wasn't. He seems bigger and stronger this year. He is another player that needs a new contract this year. Grade A

Ron McKinnon- I have alway's loved this guy's heart and he has been a team player from day one but... He should be a backup, he just is not good enough anymore. He is blocked to easily, is to slow and is a liability in coverage. Grade C-

Levar Fisher- He is playing well. He had a tough time this last game. Seattle must have watched him against Detroit because they had a man on him most of the time. If it wasn't the guard#61 blocking him, it was the fullback or they would run away from him. He did good in coverage and took on there lead blocker quite a bit. He was also replaced a lot by our safety's and was playing on the line next to Pace a lot as well. I just don't think Marmie is using him very well. I'm surprised he was able to get in on the few tackles that I seen him assist on. Grade B+

DL- Calvin Pace- Made some good tackles. Caught the runner from behind ten yards down the field on one play and made a tackle in the backfield after being cut by Walter Jones. He hustles that's for sure. Now the bad new's. Walter Jones took him to school and showed what a real tackle can do to him. He had a tough game. Grade C+

Russell Davis- Get's in on a play here and there but is just a rotation guy. Get's pushed around most of the time but has good speed for a DT and does shoot a gap once in a while. Grade C

Wendal Bryant- He is getting better every game. He still has a way's to go but he is starting to look like the guy we were hoping for when we drafted him. Grade B-

Fred Wakefield- I like him as a rotation guy at the left DT position. He is playing hard but does not have the speed to create a pass rush on the outside. Grade C

Dennis Johnson- Tackle's really well. Is not showing as much speed as I had hoped that he would. I think he needs to lose about 15 or twenty pounds to get quicker on the edge. Is better than Wakefield at LE. Since King is out for a while I would start Johnson at LE over Wakefield. Grade B-

Barron Tanner- He held the line pretty well against Seattle. He is still just a rotation guy but had a pretty good game for him. Grade C

It sound's like we will get Bell back this week and boy can we use him. I think he is our best DT. Also I am curious to see how good Ransom is. Our line wont scare anybody but should be better in the middle with Bell coming back. Again let's thank Graves for not addressing a need here with free agency. Last but not least, the Cards need to play Gerald Hayes a whole lot more. I seen him take on a block this last game and again didn't give up ground and threw his man out of the way to almost get in on the tackle. Athleticly he looks like Raynoch Thompson only bigger.

Good read, with exception of the gratuitous remarks about MARMIE. They added nothing to your analysis. It's fairly obvious and elementary that he had to go to a modified 3 - 4 most of the game because he only had three regular DT's at his disposal.

 

[Snakester]

Re: Re: Game two- My thoughts on defense

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Although I would generally agree with most of your points, there are a couple of areas I would disagree with:

You said.
(There's absolutely nothing about this that I would agree with. It would seem to me that maybe you need to go visit the football 101 website and do a little more homework. First of all Seattle ran the ball 2 ot of 3 plays in that game. It would appear that you fail to understand what the normal duties of a strong safety are: namely run support first. According to your take what? Could we expect to see a 2 deep zone on 1st and goal?
.....and I also find the statement "but don't put players out of position just for the sake of it" to be totally asinine. Do you honestly expect people to take you seriously when you post such obvious exaggerations?? I may not be totally sold on Marmie yet, but comments like ones in this paragraph are just flat ridiculous, in my opinion.)

OK Tango I'll bite. First, I don't like Wilson replacing Fisher on running downs or passing downs unless it is like a third and ten. To me and anyone that has eyes, Fisher is a better tackler and can stop a runner better than Wilson in my opinion. I do think that the Strong Safety should play up on running downs but not totally replace a linebacker. Also I do have a little experience at these positions. I started out playing safety and then moved to linebacker my second season.

I also don't like defensive lineman dropping back in coverage. There is no dumber move for a defense than this in my opinion.

If your gonna put a linebacker on the line to rush the passer that's fine. But I seen the Cards putting both outside backers on the line during some running downs. And of course the end result was big runs up the middle. On running play's your linebackers should be playing a read and react defense where they can adjust to where the balls going, not playing on the ends of the line leaving only the MLB to try and stop the run up the middle.

And when I said ( Don't put player's out of position just for the sake of it) I am refering to D-coordinators trying to confuse opposing offenses with players going out of there normal positions such as what I spoke of above. It's normal to have one d-lineman stay at the line while the other three try to get penetration. But you don't have Barron Tanner or Fred Wakefield trying to cover a WR,RB or TE on a pass play. It's just stupid in my opinion. My point is I think D-coordinators in trying to confuse an offense hurt their D more by doing these sorts of things. If I am the opposing QB and I see Barron Tanner dropping back in coverage I am licking my chops at this point and laughing at how easy it will be to complete the pass.

(I said)
Again let's thank Graves for not addressing a need here with free agency.

I know I am beating a dead horse here but it needs to be beat.

You said.( As to Wakefields lack of speed being some kind of problem....I just didn't see it. In fact most of the time he was getting closer to Hasselbeck than Pace was, and made a couple of tackles for loss on running plays.)

You have got to be kidding, I think Wakefield plays hard but he does not have good speed for a Defensive end. Don't take my word for it though, post a poll on this board and ask everyone if they think Wakefield is a regular speed demon off the edge.

(I said about Gerald Hayes)
I seen him take on a block this last game and again didn't give up ground and threw his man out of the way to almost get in on the tackle.

(you said)
Following this line of reasoning....Coby Rhinehart "almost got in on the tackle" of Darrell Jackson a couple of times.

Ok I think you were just giving me a friendly jab and I took it that way. What I am getting at is Gerald Hayes has alot more athletic ability than the other Cardinal MLBs. Every time I see him in a play I see the potential of our MLB spot greatly improving if the Cards would just put him there. And yes I know the Cards are not playing him at MLB, but they should in my opinion.

We do agree on Dennis Johnson though.

 

[Garthshort]

Grades

Snakester, I wish I had you as one of my college professors.

 

[JeffGollin]

Mixed Bag

agree with whiffing on Colvin and Holliday does hurt.
Considering the insane level Holliday is playing at, we have every right to wince.

But Colvin (hip) is gonzo for the season.

Funny how things play out. If we had signed Colvin and that had happened, we (me included) would be bemoaning our "bad luck" or ripping the training or medical dept. Guess we caught a break, huh?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Re: Re: Re: Game two- My thoughts on defense

First of all let me say again, just to clarify . . . Overall I thought your post was a very good one. You did take the time to do a very good in-depth analysis. I apologize for coming off a little too much like a typical "darksider" in that I tended to focus my post on the more "negative" areas that I disagreed with rather than the majority of the items that I did agree with.

Originally posted by Snakester
You said.
(There's absolutely nothing about this that I would agree with. It would seem to me that maybe you need to go visit the football 101 website and do a little more homework. First of all Seattle ran the ball 2 ot of 3 plays in that game. It would appear that you fail to understand what the normal duties of a strong safety are: namely run support first. According to your take what? Could we expect to see a 2 deep zone on 1st and goal?
.....and I also find the statement "but don't put players out of position just for the sake of it" to be totally asinine. Do you honestly expect people to take you seriously when you post such obvious exaggerations?? I may not be totally sold on Marmie yet, but comments like ones in this paragraph are just flat ridiculous, in my opinion.)

OK Tango I'll bite. First, I don't like Wilson replacing Fisher on running downs or passing downs unless it is like a third and ten. To me and anyone that has eyes, Fisher is a better tackler and can stop a runner better than Wilson in my opinion. I do think that the Strong Safety should play up on running downs but not totally replace a linebacker. Also I do have a little experience at these positions. I started out playing safety and then moved to linebacker my second season.

I also don't like defensive lineman dropping back in coverage. There is no dumber move for a defense than this in my opinion.
I still disagree here. Wilson never "replaces" Fisher in the lineup. The strong safety on any team will tend to "cheat up" more towards the line on running plays. In watching the Seattle game, the Cards tended to bring Thompson up closer to the line of scrimmage a lot. Fisher did it a couple of times, but not nearly as much as Thompson. I would also challenge you to specifically point out where they dropped DL back into coverage situations....I went back through the game tape twice and saw it happen maybe once, to compensate for a blitz scheme they were running, and it worked, the "dropping DL covered the short zone over the middle and the offensive play was a bust.
I did see a lot of "cross-over moves on the D-line, especially with Bryant and Davis. But they were also doing it occasionally with the DE's, it seemed especially with Pace, where the DE would end up taking more the inside route, while the tackle looped to the outside. Based on that game, I would like to see them use just the straight rush a little more, as I felt the crossovers almost became too predictable at times. I didn't see this team doing a whole lot of fancy moving of people around in position to confuse the blocking assignments...yes they did it to a certain degree, but even though it was not a typical "read and react" defense most of the time, per se, I would still classify it overall as somewhat conservative in nature.

If your gonna put a linebacker on the line to rush the passer that's fine. But I seen the Cards putting both outside backers on the line during some running downs. The tape doesn't bear that out. And of course the end result was big runs up the middle. On running play's your linebackers should be playing a read and react defense where they can adjust to where the balls going, not playing on the ends of the line leaving only the MLB to try and stop the run up the middle.

And when I said ( Don't put player's out of position just for the sake of it) I am refering to D-coordinators trying to confuse opposing offenses with players going out of there normal positions such as what I spoke of above. It's normal to have one d-lineman stay at the line while the other three try to get penetration. But you don't have Barron Tanner or Fred Wakefield trying to cover a WR,RB or TE on a pass play. It's just stupid in my opinion. My point is I think D-coordinators in trying to confuse an offense hurt their D more by doing these sorts of things. If I am the opposing QB and I see Barron Tanner dropping back in coverage I am licking my chops at this point and laughing at how easy it will be to complete the pass.
again, I just didn't see that actually happening as much as you claim.
(I said)
Again let's thank Graves for not addressing a need here with free agency.

I know I am beating a dead horse here but it needs to be beat.

You said.( As to Wakefields lack of speed being some kind of problem....I just didn't see it. In fact most of the time he was getting closer to Hasselbeck than Pace was, and made a couple of tackles for loss on running plays.)

You have got to be kidding, I think Wakefield plays hard but he does not have good speed for a Defensive end. Don't take my word for it though, post a poll on this board and ask everyone if they think Wakefield is a regular speed demon off the edge.

I never claimed Wakefield was a "speed demon". What I said was he did seem to generally get closer to Hasselback more often than Pace, and that he had a couple of tackles for loss on running plays. The one in particular that I remember was pretty much a straight dive up the middle, where he slashed in from the LE position and nailed the ball carrier for a loss....that's all the speed you need. What more can you ask for?
Also, in my opinion, taking a poll here to determine the ultimate validity of anything proves absolutely nothing, especially considering the high number of posts I see that are almost totally devoid of much objectivity. That's about the last thing I would put much creedance in.

(I said about Gerald Hayes)
I seen him take on a block this last game and again didn't give up ground and threw his man out of the way to almost get in on the tackle.

(you said)
Following this line of reasoning....Coby Rhinehart "almost got in on the tackle" of Darrell Jackson a couple of times.

Ok I think you were just giving me a friendly jab and I took it that way. What I am getting at is Gerald Hayes has alot more athletic ability than the other Cardinal MLBs. Every time I see him in a play I see the potential of our MLB spot greatly improving if the Cards would just put him there. And yes I know the Cards are not playing him at MLB, but they should in my opinion.

Actually, you are right on here. I plead guilty as charged, and I do essentially agree about Hayes. I just don't think he's ready to be a starter yet. I really do like the upside he shows, and I think he could very well become the latest edition in the line of some of the good linebackers the Cards have had over the years.
We do agree on Dennis Johnson though.

[/COLOR]

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

Nice Job

Nice job Snakeman.

I've been discouraged by our DL.....but was glad to hear that DJ is showing a little spark and that Bryant may be turning the corner. The key to our success on the DL other than good health is the improvement of DJ and Bryant......adding Bell and Ransom to the middle can't hurt.

Keep these breakdowns comin....since I had my Direct TV removed it's been like livin on a desert island as far as my Cards are concerned.

Let's see some improvement this week like:

(1) Reduced turnovers.......those killed us like week.

(2) Some kind of pass rush......maybe DJ and Bryant will step it up a notch.

(3) Caught balls......deflections lead to interceptions and dropped passes only incourage the opponent defense.


(4) Improved coaching......average or below average jobs will get us stomped.

(5) Play Gerald Hayes more and Renaldo Hill less.......Hayes needs to be in there and Hill is just too slow.

(6) Just some damn better luck.

 

[CardinalChris]

I still don't see why McDaniel isn't starting opposite Barrett and push Hill to the nickel. It just blows my mind.

 

[Sandan]

How about the possibility that he dosen't (or didn't) know the defensive schem yet ?

 

[Tangodnzr]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
I still don't see why McDaniel isn't starting opposite Barrett and push Hill to the nickel. It just blows my mind.

Patience, patience !!! It may happen yet. I think this grazes the surface of a deeper problem the Cards have with their CB situation.

First of all, McDaniel has only been here what? a week or so? It's going to take him some time to not only learn the Cards system but to develop a feel for playing with his teammates, regardless of the "talent" consideration.

What I see as the deeper problem is the relative lack of speed and man to man coverage ability most of the Cards CBs. Hill, for example, is good as long as the man he's covering isn't too fast, but if he is, Hill becomes "a step slow" and then has to compensate by playing a little "looser" coverage. Too many of our CB's are of that mold. That's where Starks was so valuable.

I think Mac and Marmie have tried to also compensate for that by basically relying more on zone coverage sets. Until they can find more guys that have better man to man abilities, I think they are pretty much resigned to having to go that route in the meantime.

Personally I think a well executed WC offense can take advantage of that. Until we can get a higher natural talent level across the board with the CBs the defensive options for the coaches are going to remain more limited, and finding that talent is proving to be no easy task right now. Quality coverage CB's are a "rare" commodity right now. (Why that is, is something I think worth a whole topic of discussion on, itself).
There are no quick fixes readily available to anyone right now.

I don't know that much about McDaniel, it will be interesting for me to see, firsthand, first of all what kind of athletic ability and skills he does possess. That's probably another reason why we see Michael Stone on "IR" for another year. He does seem to possess the complete set of basic tools that so many are lacking.
But he still has so much to learn from the mental standpoint.
...and that is his ultimate value, at least there is still the possibility that he will learn. When you are "slow" or lacking in some other physical talent....that isn't going to change, no matter what.

Really good secondary players are the ones that not only have the complete requisite of physical tools, but are considered somewhat "heady" too. The Aeneas Williams' and Tim McDonalds' don't just fall of the shelf, ready made, every day.
The really good ones are the ones that have learned their duties team-wise to the point that, on gameday, they don't have to consciously think about what they do as much as they have to concentrate on physically executing those duties. Even the most talented take awhile to develop that ability.

I simply do not see any quick and easy way out of this situation for the Cards...or for any team (and there are a lot).

 

[CardinalChris]

Hill and Coby shouldn't even be on NFL rosters IMO. It's been 3 weeks and McDaniel is still on the bench.

yes, talent is dictating scheme, but with more pressure, CB have less time to cover (In theory) Anybody seen a creative blitz yet this year?

We're losing by 40 all ready. Take some chances, use some imagination and go after these guys. 10 yards at a time is no way to die.

 

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by CardinalChris
Hill and Coby shouldn't even be on NFL rosters IMO. It's been 3 weeks and McDaniel is still on the bench.

yes, talent is dictating scheme, but with more pressure, CB have less time to cover (In theory) Anybody seen a creative blitz yet this year?

We're losing by 40 all ready. Take some chances, use some imagination and go after these guys. 10 yards at a time is no way to die.

McDaniel was playing on special teams and in the nickel an/or dime packages last weekend... If in your opinion (an opinion not shared by the Cards) that Hill and Coby shouldn't be in the league then, given they are presently playing ahead of McDaniel - I'm pressed to see the logic supporting your call for him to start...

 

[Snakester]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Patience, patience !!! It may happen yet. I think this grazes the surface of a deeper problem the Cards have with their CB situation.

First of all, McDaniel has only been here what? a week or so? It's going to take him some time to not only learn the Cards system but to develop a feel for playing with his teammates, regardless of the "talent" consideration.

What I see as the deeper problem is the relative lack of speed and man to man coverage ability most of the Cards CBs. Hill, for example, is good as long as the man he's covering isn't too fast, but if he is, Hill becomes "a step slow" and then has to compensate by playing a little "looser" coverage. Too many of our CB's are of that mold. That's where Starks was so valuable.

I think Mac and Marmie have tried to also compensate for that by basically relying more on zone coverage sets. Until they can find more guys that have better man to man abilities, I think they are pretty much resigned to having to go that route in the meantime.

Personally I think a well executed WC offense can take advantage of that. Until we can get a higher natural talent level across the board with the CBs the defensive options for the coaches are going to remain more limited, and finding that talent is proving to be no easy task right now. Quality coverage CB's are a "rare" commodity right now. (Why that is, is something I think worth a whole topic of discussion on, itself).
There are no quick fixes readily available to anyone right now.

I don't know that much about McDaniel, it will be interesting for me to see, firsthand, first of all what kind of athletic ability and skills he does possess. That's probably another reason why we see Michael Stone on "IR" for another year. He does seem to possess the complete set of basic tools that so many are lacking.
But he still has so much to learn from the mental standpoint.
...and that is his ultimate value, at least there is still the possibility that he will learn. When you are "slow" or lacking in some other physical talent....that isn't going to change, no matter what.

Really good secondary players are the ones that not only have the complete requisite of physical tools, but are considered somewhat "heady" too. The Aeneas Williams' and Tim McDonalds' don't just fall of the shelf, ready made, every day.
The really good ones are the ones that have learned their duties team-wise to the point that, on gameday, they don't have to consciously think about what they do as much as they have to concentrate on physically executing those duties. Even the most talented take awhile to develop that ability.

I simply do not see any quick and easy way out of this situation for the Cards...or for any team (and there are a lot).

Tango, I agree with you here. You can talk a good game of football when you want to.

 

[JeffGollin]

The book on McDaniel is that he is a pretty good veteran nickel or dime specialist, but may not be the physical package you want at one of the two starting CB spots.

(Remember that a nickel guy may look pretty good compared to a starter, because he's usually matched up against a team's #3 or #4 receiver and not one of the top 2 guys).

Books have been known to be wrong in the past, but that may be the reason you won't see McDaniel out there very much playing opposite Barrett.