Gannon roasted for pep talk

[Garthshort]

And what about the non multi year guys? Don't have to give a reason, just say, I like this guy, don't like that guy, etc.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Can one know they are going to lose, but still argue they aren't doing it intentionally? I kind of think so.

From a business standpoint, MO is trying to set this team up for long term success ( I believe). The business side of that requires a massive roster reset, along with ensuring near term financial flexibility, and maneuvering for an ample amount of draft picks to try and lower the curve to return to competitiveness. The business side take priority over the winning-the-games side of it for a year to be that measn to the end.

You call it tanking. Maybe, but that word infers something way more nefarious than I think is going on. To me, tanking is something one does for one's own personal gain. This team is taking some severe lumps this year, in order to ensure they can start fresh, and build with players that they want to have be a part of it, not the leftovers from the previous regime.

You guys say intentionally losing, I say the losing is a by-product of the process.

So much this.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Because the Cardinals have to save as much money as possible to possibly cut Murray.

To maybe cut Murray. And I think it's unlikely, especially prior to the 2024 season.

I agree with you Krang that ARZ has to hedge it's bet on Murray. Has to be prepared for the possibility that moving on from K-1 after 2023 is best for the team. It's definitely possible.

But to me, seeing how focused K1 currently is on his rehab and his role in the community, I have to conclude that will also spill over into practice, game prep and eventually game performance.

I'm not saying it's 100% that we're going to see 2021-form Murray in 2023, and I know it's predictable that I'm predicting he'll succeed this season, but as talented as he is, the logical conclusion is that he'll play well in 2023.

And if he does play well in 2023, then why burn all that draft capital to replace a piece that you already have? Better to build around him and that contract that is getting cheaper by the minute.

They'll be other QBs after Caleb freaking Williams Krang. I promise. And can we please see CW play against a defense with a pulse before we start working on his bust for Canton?

 

[DVontel]

FA this year has resulted in the following starters:
Center
Guard
D Lineman
Inside LB's (Two)
And before anyone says that maybe so, but they aren't any good, I'll say, let's see how they turn out.

Is this really not been PACardsFan this entire time?

 

[Krangodnzr]

That is about the only reason. And that means he has to be gone--because if he can play his way out of that scenario, we've simply wasted a year.

This is a wasted year anyway.

 

[kerouac9]

This is a wasted year anyway.

It is, but it didn’t have to be.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It is, but it didn’t have to be.

Yeah, it pretty much did.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Yeah, it pretty much did.

I guess, DRC, the counter argument is what if we had kept Murphy, Allen and Dhop, and then added the same players we've added in FA (which I assume would work out from a dollars standpoint).

How competitive would we be in that scenario?

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I guess, DRC, the counter argument is what if we had kept Murphy, Allen and Dhop, and then added the same players we've added in FA (which I assume would work out from a dollars standpoint).

How competitive would we be in that scenario?

They won 4 games last year .. so probably the same this year....and the same this new crew is gonna get.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah, it pretty much did.

I guess, DRC, the counter argument is what if we had kept Murphy, Allen and Dhop, and then added the same players we've added in FA (which I assume would work out from a dollars standpoint).

How competitive would we be in that scenario?

You keep Murphy and Allen and decide to invest in Kyler you have a solid foundation for 2024 and beyond.

Now we waffle on Kyler and have maybe one or two foundational pieces and we’re at least another year from competing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They won 4 games last year .. so probably the same this year....and the same this new crew is gonna get.

Not sure if you realize this, but the above basically argues the new coaching staff sucks just as bad as last year’s coaching staff.

 

[kerouac9]

Not sure if you realize this, but the above basically argues the new coaching staff sucks just as bad as last year’s coaching staff.

I dunno. We’re a much less talented team this year than last. Getting the same results with a worse roster isn’t necessarily bad.

But at the tails of the distribution, I don’t think it matters much. We were -109 in point differential last year. If we have the same record but cut that number in half, you can maybe feel all right going into 2024.

We were 21st in offense and 31st in defense last year. We’ll almost certainly be worse in the former and it’s hard to imagine we’ll improve in the latter.

What a waste. We have a big handful of magic beans though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I dunno. We’re a much less talented team this year than last. Getting the same results with a worse roster isn’t necessarily bad.

His argument was that even with all those guys back (Hop/Murphy/Allen) plus whatever we added this off-season, this team is still a 4 win team.

 

[kerouac9]

His argument was that even with all those guys back (Hop/Murphy/Allen) plus whatever we added this off-season, this team is still a 4 win team.

Oh. Well that’s probably wrong but apologists gonna apologize.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Not sure if you realize this, but the above basically argues the new coaching staff sucks just as bad as last year’s coaching staff.

I get the Murphy and Allen argument, but not really on Hop...Hop without Murray was pretty blech, at least how I recall. Not to mention, if Monti had forced Hop's hand and kept him around, he likely makes matters worse, not better, IMO.

Also, no way of really knowing who else is added to the roster if those 3 are kept. Now if the 2022 roster is kept 100% intact, then it's definitely arguable that the new staff could and should win more games, so I can see your point there.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Pretty much all the negative drivel that you spew is of the least shocking variety. Just don’t come back when JG has this team playing and try to eat crow.

If could only like this 5 more times...

 

[Stout]

And what about the non multi year guys? Don't have to give a reason, just say, I like this guy, don't like that guy, etc.

No point in worrying about the one-year wonders. If they stink, we're worse. If one pans out, he's not under contract. No risk, little reward.

 

[Stout]

This is a wasted year anyway.

You misunderstand. If we didn't save that cap money to cut KM, it will be a wasted BUILD year. We did a ton of tearing down and, outside the draft, no build. We could've done some build, but Monti chose not to.

 

[Stout]

You keep Murphy and Allen and decide to invest in Kyler you have a solid foundation for 2024 and beyond.

Now we waffle on Kyler and have maybe one or two foundational pieces and we’re at least another year from competing.

This. So much this.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You misunderstand. If we didn't save that cap money to cut KM, it will be a wasted BUILD year. We did a ton of tearing down and, outside the draft, no build. We could've done some build, but Monti chose not to.

But if you are saving money to possibly move on from Murray next year, they would be cutting some of that core anyway.

I really don't understand what's so hard about this explanation. If they cut Murray, they are probably going to have to cut others, because his dead cap hit is greater than the available cap. Understand?

I mean, you should be all for this move based on your prior comments.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oh. Well that’s probably wrong but apologists gonna apologize.

Darksiders love to talk about persecution and then make comments like this.

What's the point of this comment?

 

[Krangodnzr]

It is, but it didn’t have to be.

If you are 100% sold on Murray, then you make different moves. Are you 100% sold on Murray? I'm not after last season, and neither are most NFL observers.

 

[Stout]

But if you are saving money to possibly move on from Murray next year, they would be cutting some of that core anyway.

I really don't understand what's so hard about this explanation. If they cut Murray, they are probably going to have to cut others, because his dead cap hit is greater than the available cap. Understand?

I mean, you should be all for this move based on your prior comments.

You're still missing the point. If we keep KM next year--if all the saved cap money isn't specifically to cut KM--then Monti missed a build year. Because why save metric crap tons of cap if not to cut KM? I am granting you that it would make sense, but only if you follow through and cut him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

You're still missing the point. If we keep KM next year--if all the saved cap money isn't specifically to cut KM--then Monti missed a build year. Because why save metric crap tons of cap if not to cut KM? I am granting you that it would make sense, but only if you follow through and cut him.

No because you can also use it next year, which means if it's a question at all, you 100% prepare for it.

I think people are being naive about the narrative on Murray. At one point I was a denier, but the evidence is overwhelming that there are problems with the relationship. Maybe Murray can mend the relationship based on his improved leadership, but it's kind of ignorant to not admit there were significant issues.

If I was taking over as GM, I would play the situation the same way if Murray is questionable. If they blew their was in free agency this year like many are/were advocating, that would have also likely meant they would have to have pushed money into next year.

Just imagine a year where the Cardinals had $35 million in cap space, but had to take an $80 million cap hit to move Murray. Talk about setting back a rebuild. What is being advocated by people like @kerouac9 would have been a multi season disaster, instead of taking your lumps in one year.

 

[BritCard]

You keep Murphy and Allen and decide to invest in Kyler you have a solid foundation for 2024 and beyond.

Now we waffle on Kyler and have maybe one or two foundational pieces and we’re at least another year from competing.

Allen and Murphy are proper mid guys. Nothing worse than investing good money in mid guys for a rebuilding team.

If Allen and Murphy were still here would you really think much better of the roster? I wouldn't.