Gareon

[Mitch]

Utter nonsense. I just reviewed every play on the coach's tape from that game. Peterson was playing off man coverage three times as often as he was playing press technique. Even in the first half, before he got a slight ankle injury, he was playing off man twice as often.

BA just said when asked about the CBs in this year's draft that the Cardinals prefer to play press coverage and that whatever CB they take they will "teach him how to bump better." This aggressive man philosophy goes back to Todd Bowles, which James Bettcher is trying to duplicate. Not sure why you are so hung up on this. It is what it is.

 

[kerouac9]

BA just said when asked about the CBs in this year's draft that the Cardinals prefer to play press coverage and that whatever CB they take they will "teach him how to bump better." This aggressive man philosophy goes back to Todd Bowles, which James Bettcher is trying to duplicate. Not sure why you are so hung up on this. It is what it is.

Words are wind, Mitch. BA loved Logan Thomas until he cut him after his second training camp.

I watched 73 snaps of the game you pointed to as an example of Peterson playing press man all game. He played 20 snaps in press, 50 snaps off.

 

[Mitch]

Words are wind, Mitch. BA loved Logan Thomas until he cut him after his second training camp.

I watched 73 snaps of the game you pointed to as an example of Peterson playing press man all game. He played 20 snaps in press, 50 snaps off.

That's not a typical or preferred ratio (kudos for charting the snaps---no CB plays press the whole game, i should have phrased it better---I just remember how sticky and physical he was with Jones)...but with Julio Jones you have to mix things up and Pat P. did a nice job on him in that game (save a couple close holding calls---which may have backed him off more than he wanted---that and maybe his sore ankle, as you well mentioned), but the other DBs were horribly passive and got torched. If I recall, Taylor Gabriel had a career day. Now Gabriel is a WR you have to get physical with in the 5 yard area because you have to try to spoil the timing of his routes and to try to neutralize his speed as best you can.

 

[Hypothesis]

Words are wind, Mitch. BA loved Logan Thomas until he cut him after his second training camp.

I watched 73 snaps of the game you pointed to as an example of Peterson playing press man all game. He played 20 snaps in press, 50 snaps off.

You need to recount or stop pretending you watched film from that game because PP only had 50 total snaps in that game my friend.

 

[overseascardfan]

The deciding factor should be this...what do you need nowadays in the NFL? I was listening to Wolfley the other day and he made a ton of sense. In today's NFL you need DB's, Wolfley said that the key to a great defense is its secondary. The reason is because it sets up what can can do with your front seven (blitz packages). The NFL is a passing league, you have to be able to cover WR's, that is now why 2 down LB's are going the way of the dodo. ILB's with range and can cover are the new trend. QB is always a priority but since no QB taken at#13 is going to start Day 1, why not start building up that secondary with another stud CB and find that CF FS which would allow Bettcher to unleash even more of Jones and Golden.

 

[kerouac9]

That's not a typical or preferred ratio (kudos for charting the snaps---but what i said was that PP loves to play press coverage, that's his pride and joy)...but with Julio Jones you have to mix things up and Pat P. did a nice job on him in that game (save a couple close holding calls---which may have backed him off more than he wanted---that and maybe his sore ankle, as you well mentioned), but the other DBs were horribly passive and got torched. If I recall, Taylor Gabriel had a career day. Now Gabriel is a WR you have to get physical with in the 5 yard area because you have to try to spoil the timing of his routes and to try to neutralize his speed as best you can.

So what game would you point to as a typical ratio? This was the one you specifically mentioned.

You need to recount or stop pretending you watched film from that game because PP only had 50 total snaps in that game my friend.

Yeah. My attention started to wander after the first half when the ratio was 2:1 and it was clear Mitch was full of baloney. PP21 wasn't in some goal line packages in the first half and I think sat for the final drive.

Game rewind is also hard to watch this way. I basically checked the defensive alignment and skipped ahead.

 

[Garthshort]

I still say we'll draft a CB in round two. With the loss of CC, our front three will no longer be a team's strength, unless Robert Nkemdiche does a 180 (fingers crossed). That is why I'm expecting an ILB at #13, with Foster, if available, the pick. If not Reddick, and a possible trade back, if the team thinks he'll be available. The reason we simply won't try to replace CC this year is the hope that one of our young DT's will step up.

 

[JeffGollin]

This thread is both interesting and perplexing:

Interesting because it gets into the nitty gritty of secondary play.

Perplexing because (a) it uses insider statistics to make a point - as though it was rock solid fact, (b) then turns around when challenged and admits to getting a bit loosey goosey with the numbers due to screen fatigue and, in the end, (c) accuses an opposite viewpoint as being "full of baloney."

And still - after all this - I still don't know what the facts on press and off coverage really are.

What I do know is that - regardless of what the stats do or don't say - (1) a lot of players and media people say nice things about PP21 and (2) one of the most frustrating things about following Cardinal football over the past few years has been to watch our #2 corners breaking on balls a half-second late or being repeatedly a step late & beaten on slants.

I don't know if they were playing man, off, soft, hard whatever. All I think is that we need a #2 corner who is faster, quicker, more aggressive, is a reliable tackler and has decent ball skills.

 

[Harry]

While there are definitely CBs better at playing press, some of you seem to be looking at that setup in a vacuum. Virtually no team presses every down. It's dependent on many factors. What's the score? What's the rest of the defense doing? Are they blitzing? How experienced is the QB? Does he throw many timing routes? Is the receiver distracted by press coverage? Can the CB press effectively? Can the CB cover his WR without pressing? In one game a team may press often, in another they may never press.

 

[dylanbw]

This thread was fascinating. Good work Mitch and Kerouc9 - love a healthy debate. We will all find out 3 weeks from today what's up....

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