Gauging the runningbacks

[GuernseyCard]

I dunno. I was against the Williams pick from Jump Street. I think I wanted Brooks Reed. Maybe I wanted Da'Quan Bowers. I really don't remember.

As for Daryl Washington: Is right now really the time for Daryl Washington triumphalism? I've come correct that I was wrong on being so down on him, but the limitations that I was afraid of are still very much there, but his positives have really outshined them, and he's managed to put on a ton of weight without losing speed and explosiveness (my main concern on draft day).

You don't have to apologize for recognizing your fallibility.

 

[Duckjake]

um...correct me if i'm wrong, but he could he not spot their injury histories with the volumes of history he had to look at? Williams' knees were already questionable and he had missed a lot of time in both college and high school.

and the big knock on beanie coming out of college was that he was injury prone.

didn't take a crystal ball to see that those guys were pretty injury prone, ESPECIALLY Williams.

Hey now ease up on Graves, CWK and Keim. They were smart enough to pass on Adrian Peterson because of his injury history in college.

 

[Duckjake]

How bout name a draft pick, not named Anderson or Mitchell And, no others who left & succeeded don't count.

And mostly everyone was gushing over that pick! I hated it!
I sooo wanted a OLB over him...and Brooks Reid was once of those players. Gotta luv the Cardinals

Ron Moore 4th round. 1798 yards and 13 TD in two seasons with AZ and a 1000+ in 1993 (a very unappreciated player.)
Garrison Hearst 1st round. 1000+ yards
Beanie Wells 1st round 2009 1000+ yards
Michael Pittman 4th round 1998 1,565 yards and 9 TDs last two years in AZ


It's only the 2nd round picks that completely wash out. Every time.

 

[Buckybird]

Ron Moore 4th round. 1798 yards and 13 TD in two seasons with AZ and a 1000+ in 1993 (a very unappreciated player.)
Garrison Hearst 1st round. 1000+ yards
Beanie Wells 1st round 2009 1000+ yards
Michael Pittman 4th round 1998 1,565 yards and 9 TDs last two years in AZ


It's only the 2nd round picks that completely wash out. Every time.

Those stats are pitiful & why I didn't bring them up because a lack of continued success! My, how have Cards fans lowered the expectations for a darn good RB.

I guess if your gonna say that, we should induct Jim Otis, Johnny Johnson & MacArthur Lane into the Cards ROH too. Lol

 

[Duckjake]

Those stats are pitiful & why I didn't bring them up because a lack of continued success! My, how have Cards fans lowered the expectations for a darn good RB.

I guess if your gonna say that, we should induct Jim Otis, Johnny Johnson & MacArthur Lane into the Cards ROH too. Lol

Man are you harsh. Jim Otis led the NFC in rushing in 1975.

Johnny Johnson was a 7th round pick and a darn good back.

His impact on the Cardinals was not for a long period of time, but combining his very low draft status and the success he had, including a Pro Bowl selection his rookie season, earns him the 10th biggest draft success for Arizona.

MacArthur Lane played in the NFL for 11 years and scored 11 TDs for the Cards in 1970.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Why is Wells getting thrown into this? He's one of the best RB's in ARIZONA Cardinals history.

 

[Russ Smith]

With the 38th pick? I would have. Not with the 65th pick, which is where he was actually taken.

Of course, we don't all get the benefit of your 20/20 hindsight. I'm sure you were expressing that Frank Gore was the top running back in the 2005 draft. Out there alone in the wilderness.

LOL. The dumb Jets took kicker Mike Nugent in the second round of that draft.

EDIT: I notice that Darren Sproles was in that 2005 draft class. THERE'S a guy that I remember agitating for. I wanted Chris Henry and Darren Sproles and Russ Smith accused me of wanting to put together a 4x100 team and not a football offense.

That sounds far too sarcastic for something I would say.

 

[Mulli]

Why is Wells getting thrown into this? He's one of the best RB's in ARIZONA Cardinals history.

1) that isn't saying much. 2) last year he was garbage.

 

[Chopper0080]

I find it funny how those who are really excited about Keim being the GM are in such denial regarding his connection with previous draft classes. Just because he was part of those bad classes doesn't mean he is going to wash out as a GM, it just means he doesn't have any more excuses. If he continues to flub on picks, then he deserves to be gone. If he starts making solid draft picks that he deserves to stay.

I find it funny how quickly Keim has risen to "the chosen one" status without the team having played a game yet. I, like most of you, am pretty happy with what Keim did in his first offseason as GM, but that doesn't mean jack until those moves start panning out and the team starts winning games. I just think a wait and see approach is appropriate at this point.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I don't see how Williams can be endearing himself or teammates when, first, he admits to being scared and now, even though the initial MRI came back clean, he wants to get a second MRI to "be sure".

Sounds to me like he's still afraid and comes across on the wimpy side. I've changed my mind and doubt he's on the final 53.

This kind of thinking is deadly for this position. After watching tape of Ellington, I think that we will see much of him in the future in a Cardinals uniform. Maybe even this year.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Why is Wells getting thrown into this? He's one of the best RB's in ARIZONA Cardinals history.

By what standards? One game?

 

[Buckybird]

Just talking about this shows how bad RBs in ARIZONA Cardinals history has been...I'm betting guys like Pittman, Beanie & Edge are at the top of the list in rushing yards! Lol

 

[EndZone]

I find it funny how those who are really excited about Keim being the GM are in such denial regarding his connection with previous draft classes. Just because he was part of those bad classes doesn't mean he is going to wash out as a GM, it just means he doesn't have any more excuses. If he continues to flub on picks, then he deserves to be gone. If he starts making solid draft picks that he deserves to stay.

I find it funny how quickly Keim has risen to "the chosen one" status without the team having played a game yet. I, like most of you, am pretty happy with what Keim did in his first offseason as GM, but that doesn't mean jack until those moves start panning out and the team starts winning games. I just think a wait and see approach is appropriate at this point.

Last I read Keim wanted Peterson over Levi, and Cutler over Leinhart. Just because he was president of player personnel didn't mean he was making the decisions on who was being drafted. But nice try at that spin.

 

[Duckjake]

Just talking about this shows how bad RBs in ARIZONA Cardinals history has been...I'm betting guys like Pittman, Beanie & Edge are at the top of the list in rushing yards! Lol

Wells 4 seasons 2471 yards and 24 TDs 4.0pc.

James 3 seasons 2895 16 TDs 3.6pc
Johnny Johnson 3 years 2326 15 TDs 3.8pc
Shipp 6 years 2197 11 TDs 3.6pc
Hightower 3 years 2054 23 TDs 3.9pc
Ron Moore 3 years 1975 13 TDs 3.6pc
Pittman 4 seasons 1945 11TDs 3.8pc

Emmitt Smith 2 years 1193 11 TDs and 3.3 tears per carry.

Almost forgot Mario Bates: 2 years 132 carries and FIFTEEN TDs!

 

[TJ]

I find it funny how those who are really excited about Keim being the GM are in such denial regarding his connection with previous draft classes. Just because he was part of those bad classes doesn't mean he is going to wash out as a GM, it just means he doesn't have any more excuses. If he continues to flub on picks, then he deserves to be gone. If he starts making solid draft picks that he deserves to stay.

I find it funny how quickly Keim has risen to "the chosen one" status without the team having played a game yet. I, like most of you, am pretty happy with what Keim did in his first offseason as GM, but that doesn't mean jack until those moves start panning out and the team starts winning games. I just think a wait and see approach is appropriate at this point.

Keim never had the final word in any decision. Your stance is like me saying you're not promotable because of the litany of mistakes your bosses and constituents made over a long period of time. Not sure you can accurately criticize him without having all of the facts, and that includes knowing what was said behind closed doors. At the end of the day, the majority of player/personnel moves were made by Graves and Whiz; both of whom are gone. It's simply not fair to saddle him with the burden of the previous regime. He's done a fine job of trying to correct the mistakes from the past i.e. releasing Snyder, letting go of Kolb's contract, and showing Beanie the door.

 

[jbjarko]

Not to beat on the Keim horse, but how can any of you knock Keim when he has fixed nearly every FO "problem/mistake/weight/overpaid/underperforming" player we've had in one year. And replaced that guy with someone who is better suited for the Job.

Palmer>Kolb
Cooper & Colledge > Colledge & Snyder
Mendenhall & Williams & Taylor & Ellington & Fonz > Wells & Williams & Powell & Fonz & LSH
This years corners > last years corners
This years LB's > last years LB's

The Safety's remain to be seen.

We have an even deeper DL. Please. Tell me how this offseason hasn't gotten ride of every contractual and/or crap player decision we have made in the past 4 years.

 

[Goldfield]

Not to beat on the Keim horse, but how can any of you knock Keim when he has fixed nearly every FO "problem/mistake/weight/overpaid/underperforming" player we've had in one year. And replaced that guy with someone who is better suited for the Job.

Palmer>Kolb
Cooper & Colledge > Colledge & Snyder
Mendenhall & Williams & Taylor & Ellington & Fonz > Wells & Williams & Powell & Fonz & LSH
This years corners > last years corners
This years LB's > last years LB's

The Safety's remain to be seen.

We have an even deeper DL. Please. Tell me how this offseason hasn't gotten ride of every contractual and/or crap player decision we have made in the past 4 years.

this is how I feel. In one off-season he has made as much improvement as you can possibly make.

I am thrilled about the season. But I am just as excited to have a very proactive GM who has a plan in place. The future looks bright to me.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think a large part of Keim "showing promise" and getting good reviews so far, has more to do with ow inept Rod Graves was at his job.

 

[Garthshort]

The thing I like about SK is that he's proactive as a GM. He has made and will make mistates, but at least he's willing to make moves and not sit back and 'hope' that someone on the roster will improve/step up amd perform better. And while I'm not sure how this season will play out, it's been the most impressive offseason for the Cards that I can remember. Late signings of Winston/Abraham tells me all I need to know about SK.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

The thing I like about SK is that he's proactive as a GM. He has made and will make mistates, but at least he's willing to make moves and not sit back and 'hope' that someone on the roster will improve/step up amd perform better. And while I'm not sure how this season will play out, it's been the most impressive offseason for the Cards that I can remember. Late signings of Winston/Abraham tells me all I need to know about SK.

This about sums it up for me also.

It is refreshing to have a pro-active FO that has a plan and is sticking to it. We will have to wait for results, but so far this is miles ahead of what Graves and Co would have done.

 

[kerouac9]

Not to beat on the Keim horse, but how can any of you knock Keim when he has fixed nearly every FO "problem/mistake/weight/overpaid/underperforming" player we've had in one year. And replaced that guy with someone who is better suited for the Job.

Palmer>Kolb
Cooper & Colledge > Colledge & Snyder
Mendenhall & Williams & Taylor & Ellington & Fonz > Wells & Williams & Powell & Fonz & LSH
This years corners > last years corners
This years LB's > last years LB's

The Safety's remain to be seen.

We have an even deeper DL. Please. Tell me how this offseason hasn't gotten ride of every contractual and/or crap player decision we have made in the past 4 years.

I'll give you that Palmer is better than Kolb, but everything else is a projection. If all of those things end up being true, then Keim will deserve the laurels that many here are already laying at his feet. But I'm not ready to crown him right now.

I think that people are confused between doing something and doing something well.

The thing I like about SK is that he's proactive as a GM. He has made and will make mistates, but at least he's willing to make moves and not sit back and 'hope' that someone on the roster will improve/step up amd perform better. And while I'm not sure how this season will play out, it's been the most impressive offseason for the Cards that I can remember. Late signings of Winston/Abraham tells me all I need to know about SK.

But you have to do that to grow your program, especially with young players like Bobbie Massie. And Keim is doing this with Rashad Johnson (our starting safety who's been garbage his entire career and never been a regular starter), Lyle Sendlein, etc., etc.

 

[Chopper0080]

Last I read Keim wanted Peterson over Levi, and Cutler over Leinhart. Just because he was president of player personnel didn't mean he was making the decisions on who was being drafted. But nice try at that spin.

...and I wanted to bet my entire student loan dispersement on the Pats to beat the Rams in the Super Bowl. Did Vegas pay me? Nope.

Woulda

Coulda

Shoulda

None of these are good excuses in my book. Also, you make my point again for me. You refuse to acknowledge that Keim holds some responsibility for our poor recent draft history. No one is saying is totally to blame, but to ignore his role in those terrible drafts is sticking your head in the sand.

 

[Totally_Red]

...and I wanted to bet my entire student loan dispersement on the Pats to beat the Rams in the Super Bowl. Did Vegas pay me? Nope.

Woulda

Coulda

Shoulda

None of these are good excuses in my book. Also, you make my point again for me. You refuse to acknowledge that Keim holds some responsibility for our poor recent draft history. No one is saying is totally to blame, but to ignore his role in those terrible drafts is sticking your head in the sand.

How much responsibility? I'd say much less than 50%.

Personally, I think the guy has done an excellent job of restocking the roster given where it was at season's end 2012.
And whatever responsibility Keim may have had in deciding WHO to bring him, I don't think he had much to do with the amount paid to some of the questionable free agent talent that was brought in.

He has done exactly the right thing in signing almost every free agent to a ONE year prove-it contract with minimal bonus money. The previous regime threw buckets of money at career underachievers like Adam Synder and Terrence Holt or injury-risks like Al Johnson or Travis Laboy.

NFL Network's Albert Breer was on with M.J. a few days ago and claimed there was serious doubt whether the Cardinals could even retain Keim. Make no mistake about it, he is viewed very favorably in NFL circles and I feel he's off to a good start in restocking the roster.

Not every FA acquistion will pan out. But with the quantity of new talent added, some will. And those that don't are gone at season's end with little or no salary cap impact. That is a 100% improvement from the Whisenhunt-Graves regime's Pittsburgh West mentality and overpaying questionable or over-aged players.
======================================================
Mike Sando: Good luck evaluating the job Keim has done since hiring on with the Cardinals in 1999. He's been the team's vice president of player personnel most recently, but lots of people have contributed to the player evaluation process in Arizona over the years.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/87956/a-few-thoughts-on-keim-as-cardinals-gm

 

[Mitch]

How much responsibility? I'd say much less than 50%.

Personally, I think the guy has done an excellent job of restocking the roster given where it was at season's end 2012.
And whatever responsibility Keim may have had in deciding WHO to bring him, I don't think he had much to do with the amount paid to some of the questionable free agent talent that was brought in.

He has done exactly the right thing in signing almost every free agent to a ONE year prove-it contract with minimal bonus money. The previous regime threw buckets of money at career underachievers like Adam Synder and Terrence Holt or injury-risks like Al Johnson or Travis Laboy.

NFL Network's Albert Breer was on with M.J. a few days ago and claimed there was serious doubt whether the Cardinals could even retain Keim. Make no mistake about it, he is viewed very favorably in NFL circles and I feel he's off to a good start in restocking the roster.

Not every FA acquistion will pan out. But with the quantity of new talent added, some will. And those that don't are gone at season's end with little or no salary cap impact. That is a 100% improvement from the Whisenhunt-Graves regime's Pittsburgh West mentality and overpaying questionable or over-aged players.
======================================================
Mike Sando: Good luck evaluating the job Keim has done since hiring on with the Cardinals in 1999. He's been the team's vice president of player personnel most recently, but lots of people have contributed to the player evaluation process in Arizona over the years.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/87956/a-few-thoughts-on-keim-as-cardinals-gm

Outstanding post.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think it's a bit early to pass judgment on SK. Last I looked, we've had zero opportunities to see Ellington, Taylor, Mendenhall and this year's versions of Williams and Smith with "live" bullets flying.