Gentry hiring good or bad?

[Yuma]

I wasn't impressed with Porter all that much(don't get me wrong) but it's a little strange to me that Gentry's getting all this credit for missing the playoffs. Its not like he took over a sub .500 team with no talent.

Exactly what I've been saying. He did have two NBA MVPs on the squad, plus we picked up an athletic small forward/two guard for Gentry. LB and Amare weakened our offense, and neither player has been known as playing anywhere near average NBA defense. Yet, I would argue our lack of being able to stop any teams in the fourth quarter of games is what sunk us down the stretch. Yeah, Gentry let the guys run on offense again, but he failed to help our defense, which arguably got worse under Gentry than what Porter was trying to teach our guys. I didn't think Porter was effective, and I think it was just because he didn't let the team run on offense, so they threw him under the bus learning the defense. Porter's mistake was not keeping the running offense while fixing the defense. Gentry has not attempted to fix the defense, imho, and that's going to make a LONG season next year if he continues the same coaching strategy.

Also Mojo, as long as I have known Chaplin, if he doesn't call you an idiot or worse, you just aren't trying in your posts. I mean this as a compliment, I consider Chaplin the Rush Limbaugh of the Phoenix Suns board!

 

[Andrew]

I think it was the best option, not too many names on the list that can garner work from this roster, he was the best man for the job.

He will continue to run and gun the offense, but from comments by him and Kerr recently, they know they lack defensive ability and will start with some kind of defensive effort. They have to start somewhere.

 

[Yuma]

I think it was the best option, not too many names on the list that can garner work from this roster, he was the best man for the job.

He will continue to run and gun the offense, but from comments by him and Kerr recently, they know they lack defensive ability and will start with some kind of defensive effort. They have to start somewhere.

What's funny, is when we draft someone with defensive ability like Strawberry, or have people like Bell and Marion (I know Marion ran himself out of town), they end up on other rosters. Phoenix loves guys that are offensively minded. They need to find guys who are more balanced, imho. We have to change the roster. Maybe in a couple seasons when we blow up the team, we can get more defensively minded players.

I do agree with you, that the players we have are limiting the coaching.

 

[Chaplin]

Also Mojo, as long as I have known Chaplin, if he doesn't call you an idiot or worse, you just aren't trying in your posts. I mean this as a compliment, I consider Chaplin the Rush Limbaugh of the Phoenix Suns board!

Wow, considering I've never called ANYBODY an idiot on this board, that was a little uncalled for. But hey, if I get personal I'm the "rush limbaugh" of the board, if you get personal, it's no big deal. Get over yourself Yuma, I thought you and I were cool.

 

[Errntknght]

I agree, Chap, calling someone's comment absolute lunacy bears no resemblance to calling them an idiot. Faced with such distortions of your even handed assessments of others words, its amazing to me that you keep coming back here for more.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it was the best option, not too many names on the list that can garner work from this roster, he was the best man for the job.

He will continue to run and gun the offense, but from comments by him and Kerr recently, they know they lack defensive ability and will start with some kind of defensive effort. They have to start somewhere.

Good post Andrew.

The Suns were not going to spend more money now for a top HC (after paying Porter's salary) and Gentry knows the roster. I believe Gentry will try to get the Suns players to at least play periods of defense and I like how he makes playing time for the younger players as well. The key is for the Suns to have a good draft and keep adding defensive players whenever possible.

 

[elindholm]

Good post Andrew.

thud:

 

[Skkorpion]

Does it matter in the short run? We have an aging team and a dearth of draft picks right now.

In the longer run, my mind is open. If Gentry can entertain us with offense and get this creaking relic to still have a decent playoff shot with 10 games to play next year, that will be a good year. Especially if people like Dragic play a lot and keep improving.

 

[cobbler]

I agree, Chap, calling someone's comment absolute lunacy bears no resemblance to calling them an idiot. Faced with such distortions of your even handed assessments of others words, its amazing to me that you keep coming back here for more.

Get a room!

 

[Yuma]

Wow, considering I've never called ANYBODY an idiot on this board, that was a little uncalled for. But hey, if I get personal I'm the "rush limbaugh" of the board, if you get personal, it's no big deal. Get over yourself Yuma, I thought you and I were cool.

I thought we were cool! I guess you just don't get my humor after all these years. It seems I personally insult you at least once a year. I'm sorry.

There's really splitting of fine hairs when you say someone's post is lunacy, then say I've never called anyone an idiot, or a lunatic, or whatever.

Chaplin, even using what I think you said was we didn't go forward or backward, is that really enough as a coach? I would like to see more production out of a coach than saying things didn't get any worse. I watch almost all the games every year, and I really didn't see much improvement in the last half of the season. Certainly not earning the praise I have read in recent sports articles.

 

[Covert Rain]

The true test Gentry failed at was to go back to Porter-DAntoni stranglehold of the bench when it counts, even though it became clear that the huge minutes on the starters particularly on Nash killed our chances in almost every close games. It's safer to let Nash in for over 40 min. since the coach didn't want to hear the criticism that they lost the game because he trusted his bench too much and ignored his starters.

I don't get this. One of D'Antoni's biggest failures as a coach was not managing his bench players well. In addition, D'Antoni never had any confidence in his bench players. D'Antoni also was constantly blasted for playing Nash too much at times.

I thought Gentry did a good job of getting some of the bench players more minutes while he was coaching. Did not Gentry give Dudley and Dragic more consistant minutes then at any point in the year? I thought Gentry did the best job I had seen all season trying to get out bench players in the rotation. If Porter or D'Antoni were still coaching Dudley and Dragic would have never seen the light of day at the end of the year.

Plus if you look at the number of times that Porter played Nash 35 minutes or more in a single game compared to Gentry...Porter did it more often.

Other than that, LB and Amare improved their offensive decision making throughout the whole season, actually mainly thanks to Porter's philosophy change that doomed him for lack of support of incumbent players. Well, he is not a good coach to manage the psyche of the players anyway. So, Gentry has not proven to be really better other than the managing player feelings. The jury is still out though. He might surprise us as Dragic did later in the season.

Amare was horrible in his offensive decision making all season IMO. His hands were the worse I have seen them since he came into the league.

Also, though I am not sure about Gentry either he did alot more then managing players feelings. For the first time this season he played to the players strengths of this team. Something Porter was a complete failure at. That's why if there is one glimmer of hope, it's that. Gentry appeared to have the ability to coach to the team's strengths.

Give the guy some legit defensive players and let him coach that team. Then you can tell if this guy can actually coach. Utlimately, he might not turn out to be a great coach but he is better then Porter for the reason mentioned above alone.

 

[cly2tw]

I don't get this. One of D'Antoni's biggest failures as a coach was not managing his bench players well. In addition, D'Antoni never had any confidence in his bench players. D'Antoni also was constantly blasted for playing Nash too much at times.

I thought Gentry did a good job of getting some of the bench players more minutes while he was coaching. Did not Gentry give Dudley and Dragic more consistant minutes then at any point in the year? I thought Gentry did the best job I had seen all season trying to get out bench players in the rotation. If Porter or D'Antoni were still coaching Dudley and Dragic would have never seen the light of day at the end of the year.

Plus if you look at the number of times that Porter played Nash 35 minutes or more in a single game compared to Gentry...Porter did it more often.



Amare was horrible in his offensive decision making all season IMO. His hands were the worse I have seen them since he came into the league.

Also, though I am not sure about Gentry either he did alot more then managing players feelings. For the first time this season he played to the players strengths of this team. Something Porter was a complete failure at. That's why if there is one glimmer of hope, it's that. Gentry appeared to have the ability to coach to the team's strengths.

Give the guy some legit defensive players and let him coach that team. Then you can tell if this guy can actually coach. Utlimately, he might not turn out to be a great coach but he is better then Porter for the reason mentioned above alone.

1. He was better at giving the bench minutes as long as he was not under pressure to win the games. As I and Errknight observed, and you could check the stat sheet, in all crucial losses including the 6-game losing streak he played Nash way too long and igonored the bench. I'm afraid that if we are in playoff contention next season, he might revert to the same trait, which was shared by Porter and DA, as long as Nash is on the roster.

2. Amare got a bit more touches on high post this season and made the right decisions most of the time. He, when trying to drive, got pickpocketed often, but that's what he has to work on through failure: He never really did as much ball handling so far in his career. He's not committing offensive fouls as often. If you were referring his dropping passes from Nash, the jam in the paint and Nash's less perfect pass timing and angles may contributed to that too.

Well, Gentry is here for the next season and I'll support him and hope that my worries won't materialize.

 

[Chaplin]

I thought we were cool! I guess you just don't get my humor after all these years. It seems I personally insult you at least once a year. I'm sorry.

There's really splitting of fine hairs when you say someone's post is lunacy, then say I've never called anyone an idiot, or a lunatic, or whatever.

Chaplin, even using what I think you said was we didn't go forward or backward, is that really enough as a coach? I would like to see more production out of a coach than saying things didn't get any worse. I watch almost all the games every year, and I really didn't see much improvement in the last half of the season. Certainly not earning the praise I have read in recent sports articles.

Well, I never said going neither forward nor backward was GOOD, my point is that this small time that Gentry was coach is not enough to justify whether he's better than Porter or not, what with the injuries.

HOWEVER, I believe that there was enough good that was shown in that short time to think the odds are good that it will be better. Plus, you gotta look at the alternatives, and there really weren't that many, especially for the money Gentry got.

I like the hiring, much more so than the Porter one. We aren't going to compete for a championship next year anyway, he's earned the opportunity to coach a full year. Right now, there isn't much to lose.

 

[Covert Rain]

1. He was better at giving the bench minutes as long as he was not under pressure to win the games. As I and Errknight observed, and you could check the stat sheet, in all crucial losses including the 6-game losing streak he played Nash way too long and igonored the bench. I'm afraid that if we are in playoff contention next season, he might revert to the same trait, which was shared by Porter and DA, as long as Nash is on the roster.

Sorry. Don't buy it. Gentry was under pressure to win every single game after taking over for Porter. Every loss was crucial with the Suns behind the eight ball.

Whenever D'Antoni or Porter were in a pinch they did not hesitate to leave Nash out there. I could show you countless examples. This isn't the first time Nash has been overplayed when the team is struggling.

The entire point was that if you look at Nash's minutes under D'Antoni, Porter or Gentry, you see very little variance in Nash's minutes. It would be one thing if Nash's minutes increased by like 10 minutes per game under Gentry. Then I would feel you have a point. That was simply not the case. In fact, I could point out games where Nash had plenty of rest time under Gentry that he didn't see under Porter.

2. Amare got a bit more touches on high post this season and made the right decisions most of the time. He, when trying to drive, got pickpocketed often, but that's what he has to work on through failure: He never really did as much ball handling so far in his career. He's not committing offensive fouls as often. If you were referring his dropping passes from Nash, the jam in the paint and Nash's less perfect pass timing and angles may contributed to that too.

Well, Gentry is here for the next season and I'll support him and hope that my worries won't materialize.

What Amare were you watching? Some of the turnovers were from bad passes. Most appeared to be Amare not being able to hold on to the ball. If Amare was making smart decisions he would have stopped trying to be a point forward. If Amare was making smart decisions he would have worked his butt off trying to establish position like a power forward should and get the ball on the block. If Amare was making smart decisions he should have been working on his rebounding and defense in the offseason instead of his self proclaimed time spent on becoming a Point Forward and shooting the 3.

 

[Mainstreet]

What Amare were you watching? Some of the turnovers were from bad passes. Most appeared to be Amare not being able to hold on to the ball. If Amare was making smart decisions he would have stopped trying to be a point forward. If Amare was making smart decisions he would have worked his butt off trying to establish position like a power forward should and get the ball on the block. If Amare was making smart decisions he should have been working on his rebounding and defense in the offseason instead of his self proclaimed time spent on becoming a Point Forward and shooting the 3.

This really wrecks the theory that Nash is the scapecoat for all the Suns problems. It was just so easy for some to blame Nash. Then there was the bad hire in Porter. Wait, I forgot Gentry, that carry-over from the DA era... it's all his fault. Now Amare is a PF that plays like a SF? Who would have thought.

Or maybe the Suns just didn't have the players to play consistent defense. I'm thinking the latter.

_______________________________

 

[Covert Rain]

This really wrecks the theory that Nash is the scapecoat for all the Suns problems. It was just so easy for some to blame Nash. Then there was the bad hire in Porter. Wait, I forgot Gentry, that carry-over from the DA era... it's all his fault. Now Amare is a PF that plays like a SF? Who would have thought.

Or maybe the Suns just didn't have the players to play consistent defense. I'm thinking the latter.

_______________________________

Nash has never been the only reason the Suns have problems. There is plenty of blame to go around...from the front office, coaching staff and some of the other players on this team. However, I feel Nash is a major one. He is the weakest link in the starting lineup when it comes to defense. I am a big believer that you start with your weakest link and go from there. By replacing any other pieces it becomes a band aide job. Something the Suns have become prolific at.

 

[cly2tw]

Whenever D'Antoni or Porter were in a pinch they did not hesitate to leave Nash out there. I could show you countless examples. This isn't the first time Nash has been overplayed when the team is struggling.

The entire point was that if you look at Nash's minutes under D'Antoni, Porter or Gentry, you see very little variance in Nash's minutes. It would be one thing if Nash's minutes increased by like 10 minutes per game under Gentry. Then I would feel you have a point. That was simply not the case. In fact, I could point out games where Nash had plenty of rest time under Gentry that he didn't see under Porter.
.

You are kinda repeating my point! Nash was rested for favor of giving Dragic time when we played without much pressure, either against weak teams or we were unlikely to make the playoff. In crucial games like the 6 game losing streak and later losses against Jazz and Mavs, Gentry did exactly the same like Porter and DA before him: Not trusting his bench! Making Nash lose it for us frees him from responsibility!

What Amare were you watching? Some of the turnovers were from bad passes. Most appeared to be Amare not being able to hold on to the ball. If Amare was making smart decisions he would have stopped trying to be a point forward. If Amare was making smart decisions he would have worked his butt off trying to establish position like a power forward should and get the ball on the block. If Amare was making smart decisions he should have been working on his rebounding and defense in the offseason instead of his self proclaimed time spent on becoming a Point Forward and shooting the 3.

You apparently only had your eyes on the negative events when it comes to Amare. Unable to hold the ball at times, is it all you have against his decision making? What does rebounding, defense, holding lowpost PF position to do with highpost decision making? It's like he sucks at one thing, then he must suck at everything kind of argument with you.

 

[elindholm]

It's like he sucks at one thing, then he must suck at everything kind of argument with you.

LOL, this from the guy who wants to blame the collapse of Western civilization on Nash's poor man-to-man defense. Awesome.

 

[Ronin]

LOL, this from the guy who wants to blame the collapse of Western civilization on Nash's poor man-to-man defense. Awesome.

 

[Mainstreet]

He is the weakest link in the starting lineup when it comes to defense. I am a big believer that you start with your weakest link and go from there. By replacing any other pieces it becomes a band aide job. Something the Suns have become prolific at.

Okay, but what if the perceived weakest link (Nash) defensively is the Suns best player offensively not to mention the team chemistry he creates. Let's get a a young PG that can replace Nash on the roster (Dragic still needs work) before some fans kill the goose that lays the golden egg. I thought you were on to something when you noted Amare's deficiencies. Defense is played by a team and not just one player. If the Suns had four other stellar defensive players in their starting lineup then your point about Nash would be stronger.

 

[cly2tw]

LOL, this from the guy who wants to blame the collapse of Western civilization on Nash's poor man-to-man defense. Awesome.

As the incumbent franchise player, Suns inability to win a championship with Nash dominating the ball has nothing to do with collapse of any civilization other than fans' worship altar. Hope you don't go down with that collapse.

 

[Skkorpion]

SteelDog, this forum is tough to visit and I stay away as much as possible. When I visit, your posts are always worth reading even if I disagree with you about a third of the time.

 

[binkar]

Sorry to get completely off topic but I want to comment on the Gentry hiring... I like the Gentry hiring, but one comment he made in the press conference really has me worried. He mentioned that whoever they draft won't see much time this year. Obviously this is premature as we have no idea who it will be, but this tells me we are unfortunately giving it another go with the old men we have. It's fine with me if we wait it out and let the contracts expire after this year, but for heavens sake we better develop our young players and let them get minutes.

This could also be an attempt to lower the expectations we put on the young players because of how detrimental that was last year.

 

[Chaplin]

Sorry to get completely off topic but I want to comment on the Gentry hiring... I like the Gentry hiring, but one comment he made in the press conference really has me worried. He mentioned that whoever they draft won't see much time this year. Obviously this is premature as we have no idea who it will be, but this tells me we are unfortunately giving it another go with the old men we have. It's fine with me if we wait it out and let the contracts expire after this year, but for heavens sake we better develop our young players and let them get minutes.

This could also be an attempt to lower the expectations we put on the young players because of how detrimental that was last year.

It could also mean that he doesn't want to rock the boat with our current crop of young guys like Goran, Jared and Lou.

I don't read much into any press conference, mostly because it's mainly double speak and almost scripted comments. Most sports interviews are.

 

[Yuma]

I wasn't excited by the Porter hiring, and I guess I am not that excited about Gentry either. Aside from Gentry, not blaming this all on him, it seems just like yesterday we were the top team in the Western Conference, and we have slowly slid down the standings as other teams have improved more than us. I know we have old guys, but I think we had enough talent to be a fifth to eighth seed, even with injuries. With the overall talent we possess, to not make the playoffs seems like coaching has to be the problem. It seems hard to miss the playoffs when three of your starters are arguably HOF players, and the others are not slouches either.