Gentry: "Tell Mike D'Antoni he's vindicated!'

[sunsfan88]

Sunsfan88, I've only wanted to give DA credit for the style of basketball he created in Phoenix and the four great winning seasons when he coached the Suns. I do think he helped lay the foundation for Kerr and Gentry to win it all with the Warriors. Of course DA's downfall was a lack of focus on defense and a short rotation. I still don't understand why so many fans do not want to give him any credit. If not for a Horry hip check on Nash into the scorer's table, the Suns may have won it all.

When I mentioned you in OP, it was in a playful manner and because I figured this is something that you would appreciate.

What I found interesting is that not only Gentry, but Kerr and apparently Steph Curry all believe they benefited big time from D'Antoni's past systems.

Charles Barkley had that famous saying "You don't live by jump shots, you only die by it". I want to see his reaction to the Finals and especially Gentry's quotes where he called him out indirectly.

 

[JS22]

All D'antoni had to do was suck it up and let Kerr hire Thibs as his assistant. And go a little deeper in his rotation. "It's not my job to develop rookies."

Those 2 things killed the Suns.

 

[Cheesebeef]

all DA really had to do was start Kurt Thomas at the BEGINNING of the Spurs series instead of pigheadedly starting James freaking Jones in Game 1 and giving Thomas almost run, putting us in a 0-1 hole.

beyond that, he was always mentally weaker then Pop and his incessant bitching and complaining set the tone for the team, which fell right into the Spurs trap.

 

[BC867]

Your sarcasm is out of place.

No. Kerr started a Center all season THEN BENCHED HIS ASS IN THE FINALS which completely won the series as they ripped off 3 straight relatively easy victories with the tallest player on the court being 6'7.

My god... There's beating a dead horse and then there's making up an imaginary dead horse to beat when you've been proven COMPLETELY WRONG.

I mean seriously... The above is beyond out of touch.

My error. Good thing you're perfect!

I've been out of town for a fraternity reunion. When I was catching up on emails and ASFN postings after flying across country, I saw the name Andre Iguodala and my thought registered that he was a Center.


BTW, do you really think that the Warriors would have won the Championship with their tallest player being 6'7" if Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving weren't out injured? Now that's beating a small-ball dead horse.

 

[Cheesebeef]

My error. Good thing you're perfect!

I've been out of town for a fraternity reunion. When I was catching up on emails and ASFN postings after flying across country, I saw the name Andre Iguodala and my thought registered that he was a Center.

why in the world would you possibly register that Iggy was a C? All that shows is you really don't follow basketball outside of Phoenix... and probably not even that close IN Phoenix since he was a star at Arizona, was rumored to be the guy we wanted in the 2004 lotto and has been an All-Star since.

And not only were you wrong about who Iggy is (which is ridiculous), you also made the statement that Kerr never started a C all season and only did so in the Finals... which begs the question: do you even watch basketball or follow the NBA PERIOD anymore? Bogut started all season and if you don't know who he is, I don't know what to tell you. Do you realize how NOTHING you said makes sense regardless of you being out of town for a week. It's simply a complete and utter lack of understanding of what is going on in the league/who's who... which makes any claims below immediately suspect. But, let's talk about your question below:

BTW, do you really think that the Warriors would have won the Championship with their tallest player being 6'7" if Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving weren't out injured? Now that's beating a small-ball dead horse.

Who knows? they were favored to win the series when Irving was playing. They won 67 games. They played small most of the time beating Memphis (who started behemoths at PF/C) and Dwight Howard in two consecutive rounds and NEVER started a PF over 6'7 (another huge bugaboo of yours) all season. Bottom line, their small ball beat EVERY team that TOWERED over them.

It's okay to just admit you were wrong, especially considering how completely out of touch you are with what's ACTUALLY happening on the court. It's one thing to be annoying with your dead horse routine, but once proven wrong, to stick with it, while literally having NO CLUE what you're talking about with who guys are and what actually occurs on the court is beyond reason.

 

[Phrazbit]

Cleveland's quality is improved with Love and Irving healthy, but as a foe vs the Warriors it would have changed the series, and I don't think for the better. Cleveland would have been considerably worse defensively out there and the tempo of the games would have undoubtedly have been much faster (Cleveland did their best to grind it to a halt with their thin team). IMO that would have played right into the Warriors hands.

 

[BC867]

why in the world would you possibly register that Iggy was a C? All that shows is you really don't follow basketball outside of Phoenix...

Yes, that is correct. Especially since the start of the D-backs season, where I split my loyalty. And especially since I have more confidence in Tony La Russa and Chip Hale than Ryan McDonough and Jeff Hornacek's ability to build a strong team.

When it comes to our hometown Suns, whom I have been rooting for since 1970, I am not a fanatic. I am a fan.

As far as not following basketball outside of Phoenix, I don't have the time for it.

'Good thing you are not running ASFN or I'd probably be disowned. I wonder how the owner and moderator of ASFN boards feel about your prejudice toward long-time fans who don't memorize every roster in the league or choose to follow the Suns-less post season vs. the dawn of a D-backs season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yes, that is correct. Especially since the start of the D-backs season, where I split my loyalty. And especially since I have more confidence in Tony La Russa and Chip Hale than Ryan McDonough and Jeff Hornacek's ability to build a strong team.

When it comes to our hometown Suns, whom I have been rooting for since 1970, I am not a fanatic. I am a fan.

As far as not following basketball outside of Phoenix, I don't have the time for it.

Then maybe you should stop talking in absolutes about what wins titles or at least making statements about what goes on in the NBA these days.

'Good thing you are not running ASFN or I'd probably be disowned.

why? You came in with your holier-then-though theories, which were based on nothing but the past and I updated you to what's ACTUALLY happening in the present. I don't begrudge your opinion... but I DEFINITELY disagree strongly with it and wish if you're going to have an opinion and speak it so loudly and often, that it be an informed one. Do you not see how trying to discuss what is or isn't happening in the NBA with you is near impossible since you just admitted you don't really follow it anymore?

I wonder how the owner and moderator of ASFN boards feel about your prejudice toward long-time fans who don't memorize every roster in the league or choose to follow the Suns-less post season vs. the dawn of a D-backs season.

my prejudice? give me a break. You made incredibly wrong statements about FACTS to back up your just proven wrong THEORY which you pile-drive into the forum ad naseum and all I did was point out how wrong you are and the reasons you are. Proving you to be incredibly wrong isn't prejudice. It's called enlightening you to a subject you obviously don't pay attention to, yet continue to talk about.

Again.. it's okay to just admit you were wrong about who Iggy was and what the Warriors did all season and that since you don't watch the NBA anymore, maybe you don't have a handle on what makes a title contender anymore. Maybe that would bruise your ego and maybe a decade of telling everyone else how foolish they and the Suns have been is too much for you to comprehend, but BC... that's your problem. Not mine.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I believe the Warriors would have won this series even if the Cavs were at full strength. Love and Kyrie are poor defenders and the defense of the Cavs plus the offense of LeBron are the only things that kept the Cavs in the series. The Cavs defense would have been worse and the ball would have been out of LeBron's hands more often, which would have made the offense worse. Would LeBron have had those triple doubles with Kyries distributing and Love rebounding? LeBron is a better pg than Kyrie.

Its hard to put the right supporting cast around LeBron to maximize his usefulness. Its because he is so good. LeBron is better with defenders and shooters around him. That is what he had.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I believe the Warriors would have won this series even if the Cavs were at full strength. Love and Kyrie are poor defenders and the defense of the Cavs plus the offense of LeBron are the only things that kept the Cavs in the series. The Cavs defense would have been worse and the ball would have been out of LeBron's hands more often, which would have made the offense worse. Would LeBron have had those triple doubles with Kyries distributing and Love rebounding? LeBron is a better pg than Kyrie.

Its hard to put the right supporting cast around LeBron to maximize his usefulness. Its because he is so good. LeBron is better with defenders and shooters around him. That is what he had.

 

[HooverDam]

Yes, that is correct. Especially since the start of the D-backs season, where I split my loyalty. And especially since I have more confidence in Tony La Russa and Chip Hale than Ryan McDonough and Jeff Hornacek's ability to build a strong team.

When it comes to our hometown Suns, whom I have been rooting for since 1970, I am not a fanatic. I am a fan.

As far as not following basketball outside of Phoenix, I don't have the time for it.

'Good thing you are not running ASFN or I'd probably be disowned. I wonder how the owner and moderator of ASFN boards feel about your prejudice toward long-time fans who don't memorize every roster in the league or choose to follow the Suns-less post season vs. the dawn of a D-backs season.

so you don't really follow basketball outside of the Suns, and even that is a 50-50 proposition, yet you're supremely confident that plodding, traditional, big centers are the only way to win in the NBA - despite all evidence?

Reading the conversation between you and Cheesebeef is like watching one person speak English and the other speak baby talk.

In the words of the late, great Jerry Orbach in Dirty Dancing, "when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong"...try doing that.

D'Antoni had his flaws, so do all coaches, so do all humans. It would have been great if the Suns were better defensively, or had more depth. D'Antoni never should have been a GM and Robert Sarver never should have sold off draft picks, guys like Rando or Iggy could have been here providing much needed depth.

But the Suns also ran into some of the craziest bad luck ever. From Joe Johnson's broken orbital bone, to Amare and Diaw's suspensions. The fact that the Suns got close but didn't win it all doesn't make that era a failure or a mistake.

And Golden State just proved what any basketball fan has known for a long time: any style can win, if you have great players and play it well. There is no one magical style to winning it all, that's a simpletons way of viewing the game.

 

[az jam]

Heard Mike D'Antoni interview with Doug & Wolf on this morning's (Friday) show. Really like Mike D. Very professional and a real first class person. Gave much credit for his success here to the team and especially Steve Nash. Hope he lands another NBA HC job. Needs to go with the right organization.

 

[Phrazbit]

so you don't really follow basketball outside of the Suns, and even that is a 50-50 proposition, yet you're supremely confident that plodding, traditional, big centers are the only way to win in the NBA - despite all evidence?

Reading the conversation between you and Cheesebeef is like watching one person speak English and the other speak baby talk.

In the words of the late, great Jerry Orbach in Dirty Dancing, "when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong"...try doing that.

D'Antoni had his flaws, so do all coaches, so do all humans. It would have been great if the Suns were better defensively, or had more depth. D'Antoni never should have been a GM and Robert Sarver never should have sold off draft picks, guys like Rando or Iggy could have been here providing much needed depth.

But the Suns also ran into some of the craziest bad luck ever. From Joe Johnson's broken orbital bone, to Amare and Diaw's suspensions. The fact that the Suns got close but didn't win it all doesn't make that era a failure or a mistake.

And Golden State just proved what any basketball fan has known for a long time: any style can win, if you have great players and play it well. There is no one magical style to winning it all, that's a simpletons way of viewing the game.

Ron Artest tipping in Kobe's air ball was particularly painful. We win that game and the Kobe and the Lakers are facing elimination on the road... a situation that typically involved them folding like an umbrella.

 

[BC867]

so you don't really follow basketball outside of the Suns, and even that is a 50-50 proposition, yet you're supremely confident that plodding, traditional, big centers are the only way to win in the NBA - despite all evidence?

Reading the conversation between you and Cheesebeef is like watching one person speak English and the other speak baby talk.

In the words of the late, great Jerry Orbach in Dirty Dancing, "when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong"...try doing that.

D'Antoni had his flaws, so do all coaches, so do all humans. It would have been great if the Suns were better defensively, or had more depth. D'Antoni never should have been a GM and Robert Sarver never should have sold off draft picks, guys like Rando or Iggy could have been here providing much needed depth.

But the Suns also ran into some of the craziest bad luck ever. From Joe Johnson's broken orbital bone, to Amare and Diaw's suspensions. The fact that the Suns got close but didn't win it all doesn't make that era a failure or a mistake.

And Golden State just proved what any basketball fan has known for a long time: any style can win, if you have great players and play it well. There is no one magical style to winning it all, that's a simpletons way of viewing the game.

Seeing the Warriors beat the Cavs who played without two or their top three stars doesn't convince me that small ball is competitive in the Finals.

You say that any style can win. If you mean a 7-game Finals series, barring injuries, I still believe that small ball comes up short. Because of injuries, this year's Finals didn't have a chance to prove or disprove it. It was inconclusive!

BTW, I enjoyed your reference to Jerry Orbach's line in Dirty Dancing. I love the scene where the 45 RPM of Solomon Burke's Cry To Me drops on the spindle and they begin to dance.

As you pointed out, he said, "When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong." Notice he didn't say he was wrong, even though he made a faulty assumption about a factual situation -- pregnancy. He said 'when he's wrong'.

We're talking about opinions. Traditional big men vs. small ball in the playoffs. I respect your and Cheesebeef's opinion about it. It would be nice if you were to respect mine without resorting to insults.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ron Artest tipping in Kobe's air ball was particularly painful. We win that game and the Kobe and the Lakers are facing elimination on the road... a situation that typically involved them folding like an umbrella.

that one was truly awful. but, we were only tied at that point in the game. I'm sure the refs would have seen fit to give the Lakers the lead once OT started.

and the reality is... the Suns completely folded in Game 6. I was there and they never seemed to be in that game, even though it was kinda close throughout.

 

[Phrazbit]

Seeing the Warriors beat the Cavs who played without two or their top three stars doesn't convince me that small ball is competitive in the Finals.

You say that any style can win. If you mean a 7-game Finals series, barring injuries, I still believe that small ball comes up short. Because of injuries, this year's Finals didn't have a chance to prove or disprove it. It was inconclusive!

BTW, I enjoyed your reference to Jerry Orbach's line in Dirty Dancing. I love the scene where the 45 RPM of Solomon Burke's Cry To Me drops on the spindle and they begin to dance.

As you pointed out, he said, "When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong." Notice he didn't say he was wrong, even though he made a faulty assumption about a factual situation -- pregnancy. He said 'when he's wrong'.

We're talking about opinions. Traditional big men vs. small ball in the playoffs. I respect your and Cheesebeef's opinion about it. It would be nice if you were to respect mine without resorting to insults.

The Cavs were probably the 3rd best team the Warriors faced in the playoffs. And the injuries to Cleveland led to them playing a bigger lineup, not a smaller one.

Healthy or not, the Warriors were a better team, and matchup-wise I think if Kevin Love is healthy and the tempo of the games had increased it would have played right into the Warriors hands.

This is now 4 straight NBA champions playing what you would call "Small Ball" (but the Warriors took it to a new extreme). Not only does it NOT come up short but its becoming the proven way to succeed in the modern NBA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Seeing the Warriors beat the Cavs who played without two or their top three stars doesn't convince me that small ball is competitive in the Finals.

wait... but you didn't see it, did you? you admitted as such earlier.

You say that any style can win. If you mean a 7-game Finals series, barring injuries, I still believe that small ball comes up short. Because of injuries, this year's Finals didn't have a chance to prove or disprove it. It was inconclusive!

BS... what about getting through the entire WC, in which they pummeled Memphis who had Randolph and Gasol... and then destroyed Howard in the next round? And you seem to believe that SIZE above all else wins, but they went out in the Finals and pummeled the Cavs in three straight games by going small. In your theory, shouldn't size have won out period? Or are you saying that TALENT wins out because with Kyrie and Love they would have been more talented, but MUCH worse defensively, which is what you continually harp on. But how could you possibly even know that since you don't pay attention to basketball outside the Suns?

BTW, I enjoyed your reference to Jerry Orbach's line in Dirty Dancing. I love the scene where the 45 RPM of Solomon Burke's Cry To Me drops on the spindle and they begin to dance.

As you pointed out, he said, "When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong." Notice he didn't say he was wrong, even though he made a faulty assumption about a factual situation -- pregnancy. He said 'when he's wrong'.

We're talking about opinions. Traditional big men vs. small ball in the playoffs. I respect your and Cheesebeef's opinion about it. It would be nice if you were to respect mine without resorting to insults.

pointing out how wrong you are isn't insulting. Continuing to espouse theories as FACT without watching basketball is though. I mean... what was insulting? The imaginary dead horse comment? You literally made up something that wasn't true. The "you're way out of touch"? you ADMITTED that you were and don't watch basketball outside of the Suns.

Yet, after simply pointing these things out, you label me as "prejudice" and that I'd kick you off the board if I could... and then mused about how the owners of the site would feel if they knew how i treated you. THOSE were all PERSONAL comments that had nothing to do with basketball, which is ALL my points were.

So, seriously... where are my insults? Or are you just content to play the victim because you're LOATHE to admit that because you don't watch basketball, you really don't have a basis to make an informed opinion on the subject?

 

[Phrazbit]

that one was truly awful. but, we were only tied at that point in the game. I'm sure the refs would have seen fit to give the Lakers the lead once OT started.

and the reality is... the Suns completely folded in Game 6. I was there and they never seemed to be in that game, even though it was kinda close throughout.

I think its hard to recover from a gut wrenching loss like we had in game 5. Similar to how the Clippers couldn't recover from their game 5 defeat this year. Had the situation been flipped I think we cruise in game 6. Kobe's Lakers had a hooooorrible record when faced with elimination, losing typically by 20+.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think its hard to recover from a gut wrenching loss like we had in game 5. Similar to how the Clippers couldn't recover from their game 5 defeat this year. Had the situation been flipped I think we cruise in game 6. Kobe's Lakers had a hooooorrible record when faced with elimination, losing typically by 20+.

Big difference in the Clips series... they lost AT HOME in Game 6 to close it out and then couldn't recover on the road in a Game 7. we were coming home. Teams suffer crushing losses all the time and rebound and are at least competitive. we looked dead in that game from the opening tip, made one run in the fourth to get it to 5 after being down as many as 16 and then rolled over again. That was putrid no matter how you slice it. And GREAT teams... even title contenders that didn't win come back from those agonizing losses. The Kings did it after Horry's miracle 3 in the 2002 WCF to come back and win Game 5 in the last minute. The 2005 Pistons did it after blowing Game 5 AT HOME on an Horry buzzer beater in OT and came back to win in SA in Game 6 to push it to 7. That Suns team just didn't have it in them, IMO.

 

[Covert Rain]

So wait....a team that played more defensive than the Suns could muster especially when it counted (polar opposite of a team that fell apart defensively when it did) and a team that played with a smaller lineup against a wounded Cavs proves what exactly?

That they can win a title against a wounded team? OK. That they still had to get through the playoffs playing their style? Again...OK. However, 1 team in how many that have titles have done it this way? 1 out of the last 30 doesn't make a trend nor does it mean it's a blue print for success. I loved watching GSW play but that team could lock it down and they have some offensive studs to boot. GS was #1 in the NBA for Points Allowed Per Possession or points allowed per 100 possessions.

The Suns?

• 2003-2004 Suns 24th out of 30.
• 2004-2005 Suns 17th out of 30.
• 2005-2006 Suns 16th out of 30.
• 2006-2007 Suns 13th out of 30.
• 2007-2008 Suns 16th out of 30.

Don't get me wrong. I am not taking anything away from GS but to say a team who had many stars align this season in any way absolves D'Antoni is ridiculous. It just means someone else got something done he couldn't and paid attention to defense to boot. There is no comparison. I mean come on guys...I could show countless posts from people complaining about this teams lack of defensive...especially when we needed a big stop during the D'Antoni years.

If the GSW becomes some sort of dynasty playing small ball, winning several titles over the next 5 or 6 years and it starts a trend where most titles are won by teams playing small ball? I will look back to the this post and eat a massive helping of crow. Then and only then would it absolve D'Antoni.

 

[Errntknght]

As far as I'm concerned, nothing will ever vindicate D'Antoni's dismissal of defense. After a couple of years it became clear that he was not going to realize it was an important facet of the game. After that point I no longer enjoyed watching the team play and gradually watched fewer and fewer regular season games. Its rather like the all-star games, they just aren't interesting to me becaise the players don't put full effort into defending.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think effort defensively was the problem, well, except for Amare who seemed out to lunch on that end.

They just had no system of rotations, defending screens, trying to force teams inside or out... it was just "do your best". Its really disheartening to think how good they could have been with just a bit more attention to defensive positioning and rotating. And, like everyone else says, using the bench.

 

[cly2tw]

MDA's team had to break down due to regular season wear and tear. GS's weakest defender Curry is much better than Suns' weakest in Nash. Talent wise, aside maybe Amare, GS's team is better on every position. So, yes, if you take certain elements from MDA's playbook and do it the right way, as Kerr was already pushing for back then as Suns' GM, then you could win against a depleted team such like the Cavs with mainly small lineups.

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK. Please stop the talk about defeating "an injury depleted team"

Golden State had the best record in the league. They reached the finals playing much more difficult series' than the Cavs and they were by far the better team. I believe they were the better team even if Love and Kyrie were playing. Love and Kyrie are poor defenders and Cleveland's defense is the only thing that kept them in this series at all. Cleveland had its best pg (LeBron) on the floor in this series.

The best player on the planet managed to play out of his mind and help the Cavs pull two games out of this series, but otherwise it wasnt close. GS won going away.

GS and Steve Kerr perfected what DAntoni started. DA had the right idea, but was too stubborn to make the small changes with defense and depth to push it into the mainstream of dominance. There is nothing wrong with Gentry giving a shout-out to DAntoni for his innovation. That does not mean he is praising everything about DAntoni.

I not only think the SSOL style of ball can win championships, it now has, and it will become the dominant style in the future. With the rules changes, big men will primarily be rim protectors and pick and roll partners. A premium is being placed on big men who can shoot.

This isn't opinion. Its fact.

 

[SO91]

This board is funny. It seems we're all scarred by the failures of those DA-Nash teams that we can't even discuss this without getting way, way off base. The vindication he's talking about, and it's posted in the OP, is about playing without a true low-post presence, shooting a lot of 3's, and being a jump shooting team, which the Suns were, and the current Dubs are as well. Gentry is not talking about playing with a short rotation, or playing no D, or saying they owe everything to those Suns teams. For years we've heard the tired cliches -- "live by the 3 die by the 3", "you can't win in the playoffs being a jump-shooting team", etc. If I'm wrong I'm sure I will be corrected swiftly, but the Suns were one of the first to emphasize 3-point shooting, and took a lot of them. Nowadays advanced stats love 3 point shooting instead of long 2's, and we've seen the league shifting to that.