Get Ready

[newfan101]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Wrong.

Before the Googs trade our salary was

58,826,588

I got that by taking out current salary of $52,525,124, subtracting out Keon Clark and Googlybear, which gave us 47,158,193. Then added in Googs $11,668,395.

That was in luxary tax land by 4 million.

So we save 6,301,464 in player salaries. Then we save the additional 4 million dollars in luxary tax money. That puts us in at around 10.3 million in savings THIS season so far. Then I will assume that the tax payment will be around 1.7-2.7 million (I dont know how ot figure it out).

Oh look, 12-13 million in savings for the season, from the Googs trade alone.


The Marbury/Penny trade actually saved them LESS money this year. They went from 64 million to 58.4 million, so only around 6 million in savings for the year since they were still over the tax.


The reason why the Googs trade saves us so much money, is because we dealt with a team under the cap. They were able to absorb Googs contract, allowing our numbers to be about 6 million apart.

Are you under the impression that teams pay one big check to the players at the end of the season? The Suns have paid the majority of Googs salary already. Here's how it breaks down:

At this point, the Suns have paid Googs approximately 8 million in salary. (Remember, theres only 26 games left) They save the remaining 3.6 million. Clarks remaining salary is about 1.6 million. So the net salary savings is about 2 million.

They were over the luxury tax before the trade by about 4 million, as you said. So between the salary savings and the luxury tax, they save about 6 million. BUT, they gave Utah 3 million in cash, so now it's down to 3 million.

3 million, plus whatever they get in the tax payment, is what they gained from this. 3 MILLION. That's it.

For two first round picks, I think that's horrible.

 

[JoeVMagic]

All this talk is bogus anyway. The Marbury trade was stupid, and it showed a blatant lack of commitment or patience on Colangelo's part. However, the dumbest thing was signing Marion to that max extension so hastily. Marion may not be a maximum contract player, but he is a heck of a player and an amazing athlete. Before we gave him that huge extension, he was the most tradeable player we had, and if in December the team was struggling, we definately could've traded Marion for some large expiring contracts and some pretty high first round picks. We could've gotten under the luxury tax threshhold with $8-10 million to spend on a very serviceable free agent this summer.

If you look at it logically, the Suns are going to have to trade either Joe Johnson or Shawn Marion before the start of next season if they want to get anywhere anytime soon. All this talk about making a move at Kobe sounds nice, but where does that leave JJ or Shawn?

If I was the GM of this basketball team, I probably would have traded him before the deadline this year, packaged with Googs or something for Rasheed Wallace. The Hawks wanted expiring contracts, which Googs' is, and with JJ's contract right now, the guy was probably one of the most tradeable players in the game. Sure, it'd be difficult to see him go with his potential, but if the team's plans are to ultimately to sign Kobe, he is likely to get lost in the shuffle anyway. With Wallace's contract coming off the books this summer, that's his $17 million plus another $6 m or so we have from other expiring contracts, etc. We might then be able to sign Wallace and Kobe this summer!

Keep in mind we still have some young players. Barbosa and Zarko are supposedly going to turn out to be real studs sooner or later. Give Amare 2 or 3 years and he'll be as good as anybody else in the league. Then we'd still have our #1 draft pick. Even if we lost both Wallace and Kobe this summer, we can go after 1 or 2 guys the year after next. The key to everything is not Kobe, is not Rasheed Wallace, and if we want to win a championship, it's not Joe Johnson either - it's Amare Stoudemire. You have to believe that he is going to be as good as both O'neals, Garnett, and Duncan from 2006 on.

 

[George O'Brien]

Hello JoeVMagic. I assume you are new to this board rather than someone else under an alias. We've gone over this stuff at length, but here is my cut at it.

Originally posted by JoeVMagic
All this talk is bogus anyway. The Marbury trade was stupid, and it showed a blatant lack of commitment or patience on Colangelo's part.

1. The Suns offloaded over $100 million in salary guarentees plus they picked up some promising players.

2. Marbury was not a great fit for the Suns personnel and Hardaway may have been holding back the development of Joe Johnson.

3. The Suns could not afford to even use their mid cap exception this past summer and were unlikely to be able to use it this year because of a projected salary structure of over $66 million. Now they will have $7-$8 million to go after a free agent.

However, the dumbest thing was signing Marion to that max extension so hastily. Marion may not be a maximum contract player, but he is a heck of a player and an amazing athlete. Before we gave him that huge extension, he was the most tradeable player we had, and if in December the team was struggling, we definately could've traded Marion for some large expiring contracts and some pretty high first round picks.

The decision to give Marion a max contract was a blunder and may have contributed to the need to trade Marbury. Everyone agrees that Marion is overpaid, especially after he misplaced his jump shot. However, at the time the Marbury deal was in place, it was almost impossible to even give away Marion because he was considered to be at least $2-$2.5 million overpriced in a year when everyone is trying offload salaries.

We could've gotten under the luxury tax threshhold with $8-10 million to spend on a very serviceable free agent this summer.

Without the Marbury/Hardaway trade, the Suns would have been at about $66 million. Even if you take away Marion's salary entirely, it would still only put the team at about $55 million or roughly the luxury tax limit. There is a lot of debate whether the luxury tax will be in place next year, but it certainly has driven a lot of the Sun's decisions over the past few years because ever $1 spent increases the luxury tax by $1.[/b]

If you look at it logically, the Suns are going to have to trade either Joe Johnson or Shawn Marion before the start of next season if they want to get anywhere anytime soon. All this talk about making a move at Kobe sounds nice, but where does that leave JJ or Shawn?

It is not clear what you are trying to say. The Suns are not going to trade JJ. He is arguably their best player yet is still under rookie contract.

It is not obvious that the Suns could trade Marion if they wanted to, except to get another player with a crappy contract. He is sufficiently overpriced for his style of play to make him uninteresting to teams with cap space.

If the Suns sign Kobe, then one of them comes off the bench.

If I was the GM of this basketball team, I probably would have traded him before the deadline this year, packaged with Googs or something for Rasheed Wallace. The Hawks wanted expiring contracts, which Googs' is, and with JJ's contract right now, the guy was probably one of the most tradeable players in the game. Sure, it'd be difficult to see him go with his potential, but if the team's plans are to ultimately to sign Kobe, he is likely to get lost in the shuffle anyway. With Wallace's contract coming off the books this summer, that's his $17 million plus another $6 m or so we have from other expiring contracts, etc. We might then be able to sign Wallace and Kobe this summer!

Your proposal simply doesn't work. The Hawks refused to accept any players whose contracts were not going to expire. The Wallace move was based on the Celtics accepting Chucky Atkins and first for an expiring contract. Atkins might actually play for the Celtics, but Eisley is not as good and costs $2 million a year more.

Also, the Pistons have a real chance of catching the Pacers in the Central Division now that Artest of the Pacers is injured. By contrast, the Suns gain no value from having a player like Wallace who is not going to stay.

BTW No one I'm aware of is convinced that the Suns have more than minor chance of actually signing Kobe and no chance if his legal problems remain.

Keep in mind we still have some young players. Barbosa and Zarko are supposedly going to turn out to be real studs sooner or later. Give Amare 2 or 3 years and he'll be as good as anybody else in the league. Then we'd still have our #1 draft pick. Even if we lost both Wallace and Kobe this summer, we can go after 1 or 2 guys the year after next. The key to everything is not Kobe, is not Rasheed Wallace, and if we want to win a championship, it's not Joe Johnson either - it's Amare Stoudemire. You have to believe that he is going to be as good as both O'neals, Garnett, and Duncan from 2006 on.

This is perhaps a bit optomistic.

Actually, a big part of the reason some of us are moderately upbeat is the promise of Lampe and Vujanic who were received in the Marbury trade. Lame is very young, but at 7'0" and 275 with an excellent outside and great passing skills, he could be an outstanding high post center in a year or two.

Vujanic is a Serbian combo guard (part PG part SG) who has been tearing up the Italian leage including 6 three point shots in one game. He has an opt out provision in his contract and has said he will sign with the Suns this summer.