JCSunsfan
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It really depends on how receptive he will be to coaching and how effective you think your OT line staff is. Becton is a monster.
Getting an offensive lineman at #8
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JCSunsfan
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Dominant. Sorry.
IMO Wills is the only one I would consider with the #8 overall pick. Wills would lock down the RT position for the next decade.
Cardsfaninlouky
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The 10 personnel KK envisions is with 4 "elite" WR's, not just 4 WR's. Will CeeDee Lamb become elite if drafted? Who knows, but he's one of the top 3 in the draft so there's that lol. You haven't heard KK answer the question about 10 personnel & why he slowed down using it as much. His basic answer was not having the right personnel & it wasn't working so he adapted. He's never had 4 WR's as talented as this potential 4 could be, plus Lamb knows his system. The Air Raid he was taught slings the ball around & I think he wants to use it as his go to. I like a balanced offense, love the two TE sets. I hope he uses 11 & 12 personnel more than 10 personally.
GuernseyCard
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You'll get a 3rd at best for that drop.
It all depends on who is available at #8 and how many teams want to move to that spot.
Dr. Jones
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What I can say about Becton's measureables: Extremely Rare. 99th percentile.
His production: Mediocre, inconsistent, with some WOW plays mixed in.
His experience: Almost nonexistent on actual pass plays. Tons of run plays. Mostly screens in the pass game.
His Technique: Hulk Smash. Maul opponent. Squash.
His pro prospects with all of that added in: Super Low floor (Ereck Flowers level). Super high ceiling (Ogden level). It's like guaranteeing Todd Gurley 24 million dollars with two years left on his rookie contract. You just don't do it unless you are willing to take on a huge risk for very little reward in the end.
Especially not this high with that many good choices around him.
His production: Mediocre, inconsistent, with some WOW plays mixed in.
His experience: Almost nonexistent on actual pass plays. Tons of run plays. Mostly screens in the pass game.
His Technique: Hulk Smash. Maul opponent. Squash.
His pro prospects with all of that added in: Super Low floor (Ereck Flowers level). Super high ceiling (Ogden level). It's like guaranteeing Todd Gurley 24 million dollars with two years left on his rookie contract. You just don't do it unless you are willing to take on a huge risk for very little reward in the end.
Especially not this high with that many good choices around him.
GuernseyCard
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Sure, but a second is overpaying on a drop of 3 or 4 spots per the chart. You'd need a later flip or sweetner to make it work.
Solar7
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You're putting words in Kingsbury's mouth.
No coach should ever, ever, ever envision going four deep with elite personnel. It isn't going to happen without majorly sacrificing the rest of your roster.
He already has an abundance of riches that any head coach or OC would drool over.
Cardsfaninlouky
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Look, I'm not advocating drafting Lamb or any of the other WR's at #8, we have too many other needs but it wouldn't absolutely break my heart either. I saw first hand when the "Air Raid" came to division 1 football by it's creator in 1997. Hal Mumme brought it to the University of Kentucky. 4 true WR's with 10 personnel is the main offense in a nut shell. Any coach being brought up with this offense is gonna go 4 wide most of the time. If you think for a minute the possibility of adding Lamb hasn't peaked the interest of KK using 10 personnel more then Idk what to tell you? Go back & listen to interviews & read articles, see what KK says when asked about slowing down on using 10 personnel & why. He didn't have the right personnel/pieces in his way of saying it. Like I said in the comment you just quoted, I love 11 & 12 personnel, balance, power running mixed in but at the same time I know what these "Air Raid" coaches like to do the most. He's shown his ability to adapt in 2019 & I hope he keeps doing that, imo it was mainly because he didn't have good enough WR's to go 4 wide once he realized it.
your last sentence sums it up pretty good. We thought we had the WRs to pull it off, but found out by game three. Add into the mix Kyler really learning on the fly considering the very limited preseason reps he had. I think KK wants to do more 4 wide sets, especially with a years experience for Kyler, but is smart enough to adapt his game-plan week to week. Lamb / Juedy / Ruggs will open the field up even more.
Cardsfaninlouky
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Spot on. That's what a true "Air Raid" coach wants to do. 4 wide most of the time. Teams don't have enough CB's to cover it. You do need the QB standing upright in order to make it work lol. I think our OL is a little better than people think. What if Gilbert didn't get hurt last yr? If he stayed healthy all yr, would the OL have looked better? I lean towards it would have been better. Sweezy was better than people gave him credit for also. Bottom line, we have 2 guys to play RT now, I don't think a rookie will change that. Who's to say the one we draft if we actually do even works out? Then we're back to square one again in a few yrs. Simmons makes the most sense to me if there at #8, if not, trade down & BPA. Get more picks. Build depth on the OL that way.
Now that is funny.
I can see it now. "If I could only have an air raid roster of loaded with average and below average receivers!!!!"
Fitz 800 yards
Kirk 700 yards
Isabella 190 yards
Johnson 190 yards
Solar7
Go Suns
Yeah man, great argument, totally makes sense to remove DeAndre Hopkins and his 1165 yards.
Kelce 1229 yards
Hill 860 yards
Watkins 673 yards
Super Bowl winners. Pretty damned comparable if you accept that Isabella/Johnson/Butler should develop at least some with a second year under their belt. And I'm not even a Drake fan, but he outproduced their running game too.
Lamp makes sense. Opposite Hop and with Fitz in slot and Kirk/Isabella too you have a 4 WR Corps that has 3 Guys that can catch contestet balls and a fast WR that can make all the Slants and so on.
Basically it this year could amount to:
Hopkins 1300 yards
Fitzgerald 1000 yards
Kirk 1000 yards
Lamp 700 yards
And that is already 4000 yards by just 4 guys, another 1000 yards could come from the backups Johnson, Isabella and the TE Arnold and RB Drake.
And with 5000 Yards and low TO ratio you in 90% of the time are in the playoffs but for sure in the hunt in december.
And that is already something you could see as a mayor improvement or impact.
An OT probably won't beat out the other 2 RT and if not by much because you have a learning curve as OT in the NFL and it showed in the past years, few came in and were up to the hype. Even OG/C didn't make the teams better from the get go.
Simmons if used well could add more wins than Lamp, for sure, but I think, he will be gone before we pick.
Okuhda as a #2 CB could have also a higher impact even more so if we can trade Alford for a late pick. But on the other hand if Alford stays healthy and we can't trade him, the upgrad in year one isn't that big and the impact isn't given. So it is more for the long run.
Lamp should have impact from the get go. Maybe our Coach thinks Johnson or Isabella or Brown can have also such an impact, then you don't draft him, but else. He would always face the weaker CB, double team would always be on Hopekins and in worst case they double Hop & Fitz so Lamp should have 1on1 on 99% of the snaps, like Kirk.
Since Murray can run, and the O-line can keep up for 2.4 secs or something like that. one of Kirk and Lamp should have a free go and with 2.4 secs lamp and kirk make both around 20 yards ... without YAC.
So I dunno the more I tink of the more I tend to see us drafting Lamp.
Basically it this year could amount to:
Hopkins 1300 yards
Fitzgerald 1000 yards
Kirk 1000 yards
Lamp 700 yards
And that is already 4000 yards by just 4 guys, another 1000 yards could come from the backups Johnson, Isabella and the TE Arnold and RB Drake.
And with 5000 Yards and low TO ratio you in 90% of the time are in the playoffs but for sure in the hunt in december.
And that is already something you could see as a mayor improvement or impact.
An OT probably won't beat out the other 2 RT and if not by much because you have a learning curve as OT in the NFL and it showed in the past years, few came in and were up to the hype. Even OG/C didn't make the teams better from the get go.
Simmons if used well could add more wins than Lamp, for sure, but I think, he will be gone before we pick.
Okuhda as a #2 CB could have also a higher impact even more so if we can trade Alford for a late pick. But on the other hand if Alford stays healthy and we can't trade him, the upgrad in year one isn't that big and the impact isn't given. So it is more for the long run.
Lamp should have impact from the get go. Maybe our Coach thinks Johnson or Isabella or Brown can have also such an impact, then you don't draft him, but else. He would always face the weaker CB, double team would always be on Hopekins and in worst case they double Hop & Fitz so Lamp should have 1on1 on 99% of the snaps, like Kirk.
Since Murray can run, and the O-line can keep up for 2.4 secs or something like that. one of Kirk and Lamp should have a free go and with 2.4 secs lamp and kirk make both around 20 yards ... without YAC.
So I dunno the more I tink of the more I tend to see us drafting Lamp.
Solar7
Go Suns
Dude, it's Lamb.
I have no idea why people think a WR is going to have impact from the get go as the #4 wideout, and protecting our QB or improving our defense is just an afterthought, short term or long.
Lamb is the kind of pick you make if you're all-set across the roster and just need one more guy to get you over the top. He is not going to make up for any of the major deficiencies we have elsewhere.
That's even assuming Lamb is even a good NFL WR. The WRs taken in the first round in the past five years haven't really been impactful.
Who is saying Lamb would be the #4 WR. Most people expect he would be #2 or #3.
Solar7
Go Suns
Lamb would be on the depth chart below Hopkins and Fitz without exception. There's no way we're sticking some rookie above the franchise's #1 legend and probably our most exciting acquisition ever.
As far as beating out Kirk? I know for some reason he's suddenly on the trash heap, but he's got two years of NFL experience, a full year in Kingsbury's system, and it's not like he's some slow journeyman who is just barely hanging on, he's a 2nd round pick from two years ago with an unfortunate injury here or there.
If you think he's bad, again, this comes down to expecting fantasy football numbers instead of looking at what we really have.
No, because we have a top three WR already here, along with plenty of complementary pieces.
DVontel
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Even if Fitz retired this year, it still would be #notsmart to draft a WR at #8.
TheCardFan
Things have changed.
It would be #notsmart to draft for need and pass on the best player. Adrian Peterson will be in the Hall of Fame...we got Levi Brown.
Solar7
Go Suns
Keep saying it man, none of these WRs are proven superstars. And it's not like we're taking the second OT necessarily.
TheCardFan
Things have changed.
I just want a great player man...one that will make an impact here for several years. We have missed so many times.
