Getting Used To The Amare Offenve

[George O'Brien]

In another thread there was discussion of possibly getting Magloire in some complicated deal with the Hornets. I can't see it. Almost every standard center fails to meet a key criteria: "How does he fit into the Amare offense?"

Several commentators have noted that there may have never been a player quite like Amare. He has the size and strength of a small center with the quickness and leaping of an athletic small forward. He's too quick for most bigs and too big for smaller players. The result is that most teams are forced to double team him to avoid having him go off for 40 points.

.. plus, he's getting better (see the Amare interview). He's working on his ball handling, his skills at going left, and is adding a jump hook to an already awsome repertoire. This means that someone is going to be left open.

Given the option, most opposing coaches would pack the paint and do everything possible to keep Amare from dunking on them. As his jump shot improves, they will be forced to come out on, but that risks having him just blow by his man. As Amare becomes better at hitting the open man, he will create havoc as teams try to respond with help defense.

The focus on the Suns personnel changes have generally had the same priority - add guys who can shoot. Big guys who can't shoot give opponents the luxury of double teaming the low block. That is what D'Antoni is trying to avoid.

Look at the guys the Suns have added. KT is a first rate mid range shooter. Bell shoots over 40% for three. Padgett is a 39% three point shooter. Burke is considered a very good mid range shooter. Thompson may not be a player, but he can shoot. Diaw is not a shooter, but he'd be the only one. This is a team that wants to spread the floor on every time the court to take advantage of the fact that no one can defend Amare.

There are some guys the Suns might take a look at who aren't shooters, but only for maybe 10 minutes a game. Overall, to play on the Suns, you'd better be able to shoot and help spread the floor for Amare.

 

[Yuma]

Given the option, most opposing coaches would pack the paint and do everything possible to keep Amare from dunking on them. As his jump shot improves, they will be forced to come out on, but that risks having him just blow by his man. As Amare becomes better at hitting the open man, he will create havoc as teams try to respond with help defense.

Thus, the "small" ball we played last year. To maximize the penalty of doubling Amare, D'Antoni had three point shooters on the floor. A point most "small" ball opponents on the board failed to realize.

 

[elindholm]

Look at the guys the Suns have added. KT is a first rate mid range shooter. Bell shoots over 40% for three. Padgett is a 39% three point shooter.

Scott Padgett? Did the Suns add him? I must have missed the report while I was away. Did he take a minimum deal?

 

[George O'Brien]

Look at the guys the Suns have added. KT is a first rate mid range shooter. Bell shoots over 40% for three. Padgett is a 39% three point shooter.

Scott Padgett? Did the Suns add him? I must have missed the report while I was away. Did he take a minimum deal?

Lots of news reports but no official announcements.

 

[F-Dog]

Scott Padgett? Did the Suns add him? I must have missed the report while I was away. Did he take a minimum deal?

It was supposedly $1m, which means it probably is the minimum, since Padgett's been around for a while.

I haven't seen anything that implies that the Suns have given up their LLE/"biannual exception" yet.

 

[Mainstreet]

I already posted under the "Zaza Pachulia is now an Atlanta Hawk" thread, but I believe Pachulia might fit the Amare offense.

Can the Suns make a substitution in the sign and trade for JJ... isn't there a 24 hour window? I would let Atlanta keep Diaw and the LA pick if the Suns could acquire Pachulia.

IMO, the LA pick is not likely to be that good anyway.

 

[wilecoyotesupergenius]

It was supposedly $1m, which means it probably is the minimum, since Padgett's been around for a while.
I haven't seen anything that implies that the Suns have given up their LLE/"biannual exception" yet.

You are correct...we still have our LLE exception. We also still have a sliver of the MLE (I believe Bell was given $4.25 his first year...meaning we can offer a 5 year deal to someone...with 8% raises...starting at $750,000).

We supposedly offered Hunter our LLE...with a team option after the first year (so if he proves himself, he can "earn" our MLE next year). Hunter hasn't signed yet (despite telling everyone he loves it here). He says the amount isn't as important as the length of the contract cuz he wants security.
Our current offer is a 2 year deal worth about $3.5mil (the LLe + 8% increase).

If security is really what he wants...lets offer him a 5 year deal for whats left of the MLE ($750,000)...with annual raises...for around $4mil over 5 years...we'll see if security is all he wants.

 

[Joe Mama]

You are correct...we still have our LLE exception. We also still have a sliver of the MLE (I believe Bell was given $4.25 his first year...meaning we can offer a 5 year deal to someone...with 8% raises...starting at $750,000).

We supposedly offered Hunter our LLE...with a team option after the first year (so if he proves himself, he can "earn" our MLE next year). Hunter hasn't signed yet (despite telling everyone he loves it here). He says the amount isn't as important as the length of the contract cuz he wants security.
Our current offer is a 2 year deal worth about $3.5mil (the LLe + 8% increase).

If security is really what he wants...lets offer him a 5 year deal for whats left of the MLE ($750,000)...with annual raises...for around $4mil over 5 years...we'll see if security is all he wants.

Oh yeah... that'll work.

Joe

 

[Errntknght]

Back to George's post that started this thread... I'll spare you quoting it all...

I will have to disagree with you again George, just like I did the last time you posted this. Actually, I do agree with the idea that the Suns are planning to spread the floor the way you say, but I do not agree that you cannot have an effective offense that teams Amare with a low post player. I would have agreed with you before last year - in fact, I was saying we needed to get a high post center so as to leave the space around the hoop for Amare. To your credit you agreed with me on that.

But Amare's game has moved away from the hoop and that changes what is possible. I'd go so far as to say it would be prefereable to have a low post player teamed with him - though it has to be one with a decent low post offensive game. Amare in the high post, of course, and the focus of the offense.

Basicly, you want as much close in offense as you can get - long range shooting is necessary to a certain extent but if you rely on it too heavily you're asking for trouble, especially in the playoffs. As the Spurs showed us.

Sure Amare can provide a tremendous amount of inside offense but it is too taxing for him, especially considering that we'd like him to defend and rebound strongly as well. Not only do those drives to the hoop take much more energy, he is far more at risk of an injury. The toll on his body will also shorten his career.

The secret is to maximize the value of the threat he poses when he's got the ball in his hands. A low post player's defender is going to know that he has to help if Amare drives, which means he can't give his complete attention to his own man. That's an ideal position for our low post man - the defensive wings are too far away to help and Amare's man dare not even peek behind him to see what's happening. He'd be in pretty good shape if Amare just flipped him the ball but if his defender reacts at all to Amare faking a drive or taking one dribble he can get better position. This position can be exploited several ways - a better shot for him, screening his man from helping if Amare drives, or for rebounding.

Supposing Amare does drive and the low post player's defender goes to help - we are hardly in a world of hurt with a big dude left alone near the hoop for Amare to lay the ball off to, or to put back a rebound if Amare flips up a shot.


KT should work out okay - he's probably as good as any big for the style the Suns figure to use but I'd rather have a bigger, stronger guy hanging out in the low post and change the style in that regard. A Jahidi White wouldn't do, of course.

 

[George O'Brien]

Perhaps if Amare was matched with an outstanding low post player it wouldn't be a problem, but the guys under discussion aren't. They are viewed as low post players by default because they can't shoot. The obvious solution for these teams is to pack the paint in a defacto zone and turn Amare into a jump shooter.

In any case, my guess is that KT will make more layups with the Suns than he did with the Knicks. Its not that his overall game will change, but if teams leave him open under the basket I'm sure Nash will find him.

BTW, I do wish the Suns would pick up a solid low post scorer as long as they don't have to play him much. I'd like to have someone for Amare to practice against.

 

[scotsman13]

Perhaps if Amare was matched with an outstanding low post player it wouldn't be a problem,

i just want to know who anyone out there thinks is a outstanding low post player at center beside shaq? and at 25 million i think that i will pass on that. last year amare was second team all nba for a reason, the nba has been flooded with centers that their own really value is that they are big and can stand in the way of shaq and give him 6 fouls. maybe someday will see another day with players like david robinson, shaq, ewing, the dream all in the nba at the same time but that time has come and gone.

 

[Joe Mama]

i just want to know who anyone out there thinks is a outstanding low post player at center beside shaq? and at 25 million i think that i will pass on that. last year amare was second team all nba for a reason, the nba has been flooded with centers that their own really value is that they are big and can stand in the way of shaq and give him 6 fouls. maybe someday will see another day with players like david robinson, shaq, ewing, the dream all in the nba at the same time but that time has come and gone.

Yes, but Amare doesn't necessarily need to play with a traditional center. It could be another power forward who is a good low post scorer.

Joe

 

[scotsman13]

joe the point i am trying to get at is there really isnt that many low post players any more. in power forwards? duncan, brand maybe j o'neill? after that who? a true low post player is one of the rarest of the rares today.