Give SK some credit

[GimmedaBall]

Keim is an above average G.M. He fleeced the Raiders. Kudos to him!

Give some time before announcing a winner. Raiders got the guy they wanted in the first round at our #15 pick and also added to their WR room with Bryant off the trade value of their additional #3.

It's like our trade down with the Saints that got us DBuc and Smoke---I think we won that trade down.

 

[GimmedaBall]

This is why gamblers lose. Money is money. A 3rd round pick is a 3rd round pick. It doesn't matter that you have two. The Cardinals have plenty of holes to fill and that pick had value to them. They gave up something.

That said, it was a fairly small price to pay considering and was well worth it. Picking at nits here.

Good point on a 3rd round pick being a 3rd pick. Especially when that seems to be the round that SK gets things right.

The comp pick for CC made it 'easier' to spend our original since Cards would still have a 3rd pick. It is like finding that extra $5 in your jacket that you didn't wear since last spring and now you can stop at Taco Bell instead of eating your wife's rubber chicken special for supper.

 

[daves]

Hi Daves! There's a difference between arm strength and velocity of a throw. We actually had a long discussion on the difference between the two on another recent thread---for the life of me I don't recall which one. We had some info there on the physics and oaken1 posted several explanatory comments. Perhaps those physics majors can chime in here.

Yeah... i didn't buy it there but didn't feel like debating. (I'm a former college physics major.)

Higher release velocity exactly equates to higher functional arm strength. If someone has a "stronger arm" but lower release velocity... he doesn't really have a stronger arm. In given conditions, the time it takes the ball to get to a receiver downfield is determined only by the release velocity, release angle, and spiral. (A poor spiral can cause the ball to decelerate more quickly.) Unless one QB deliberately arcs the ball higher than necessary (not an issue that Rosen has), if two QBs throw to the exact same spot, the one with the higher velocity will get the ball there more quickly.

The fact is that Rosen has well above-average velocity, therefore he has well above-average arm strength.

Now, why would anyone say he has only "average" velocity? The only reason i can think of is that perhaps in game situations, as opposed to the throws he made at the combine, he doesn't always deliver the ball with his full arm strength. I would think that applies to every QB, who in game situations can't make all throws from a perfect stance in a clean pocket. Maybe it applies more to Rosen than to most - i don't know. But it just struck me as strange to see him described with "average" arm strength, then to look up his actual numbers, and find that he has well above average velocity.

...dave

 

[GimmedaBall]

Yeah... i didn't buy it there but didn't feel like debating. (I'm a former college physics major.)

Higher release velocity exactly equates to higher functional arm strength. If someone has a "stronger arm" but lower release velocity... he doesn't really have a stronger arm. In given conditions, the time it takes the ball to get to a receiver downfield is determined only by the release velocity, release angle, and spiral. (A poor spiral can cause the ball to decelerate more quickly.) Unless one QB deliberately arcs the ball higher than necessary (not an issue that Rosen has), if two QBs throw to the exact same spot, the one with the higher velocity will get the ball there more quickly.

The fact is that Rosen has well above-average velocity, therefore he has well above-average arm strength.

Now, why would anyone say he has only "average" velocity? The only reason i can think of is that perhaps in game situations, as opposed to the throws he made at the combine, he doesn't always deliver the ball with his full arm strength. I would think that applies to every QB, who in game situations can't make all throws from a perfect stance in a clean pocket. Maybe it applies more to Rosen than to most - i don't know. But it just struck me as strange to see him described with "average" arm strength, then to look up his actual numbers, and find that he has well above average velocity.

...dave

Wish you had chimed in on the original discussion.

I got my info on Rosen's arm strength off the NFL.com Combine profile page (see description in the section on Weakness). That might be an actual measure to conduct at the combine for QBs. Would make more sense than some of the other drills.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josh-rosen?id=32462018-0002-5600-59bd-f150d938ca3e

Do you have any references to the difference or lack of between arm strength and velocity?

How would you explain my example of the kid throwing the toy at his Dad?

 

[CardNots]

Can we see how this plays out before we start erecting a statue in his honor?

I’m 61, build the statue.

 

[overseascardfan]

Up to this point I give him credit. He got a steal at #10 without mortgaging the future to do so.

 

[daves]

Wish you had chimed in on the original discussion.

I got my info on Rosen's arm strength off the NFL.com Combine profile page (see description in the section on Weakness). That might be an actual measure to conduct at the combine for QBs. Would make more sense than some of the other drills.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josh-rosen?id=32462018-0002-5600-59bd-f150d938ca3e

Do you have any references to the difference or lack of between arm strength and velocity?

How would you explain my example of the kid throwing the toy at his Dad?

Haha OK, you motivated me to go revisit that other thread and respond there. I was too busy to chime in when it was originally active....

...dave

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah... i didn't buy it there but didn't feel like debating. (I'm a former college physics major.)

Higher release velocity exactly equates to higher functional arm strength. If someone has a "stronger arm" but lower release velocity... he doesn't really have a stronger arm. In given conditions, the time it takes the ball to get to a receiver downfield is determined only by the release velocity, release angle, and spiral. (A poor spiral can cause the ball to decelerate more quickly.) Unless one QB deliberately arcs the ball higher than necessary (not an issue that Rosen has), if two QBs throw to the exact same spot, the one with the higher velocity will get the ball there more quickly.

The fact is that Rosen has well above-average velocity, therefore he has well above-average arm strength.

Now, why would anyone say he has only "average" velocity? The only reason i can think of is that perhaps in game situations, as opposed to the throws he made at the combine, he doesn't always deliver the ball with his full arm strength. I would think that applies to every QB, who in game situations can't make all throws from a perfect stance in a clean pocket. Maybe it applies more to Rosen than to most - i don't know. But it just struck me as strange to see him described with "average" arm strength, then to look up his actual numbers, and find that he has well above average velocity.

...dave

NERD!!!

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Keim is an above average G.M. He fleeced the Raiders. Kudos to him!

How did he fleece the Raiders? They didn't want or need the QB and they traded down and got the guy they wanted while gaining a 3rd and 5th round pick. I'm not sure how you can say he fleeced the Raiders. I'm sure they are more than happy with this trade.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Haha OK, you motivated me to go revisit that other thread and respond there. I was too busy to chime in when it was originally active....

...dave

Which thread was that so I can visit?

For my fellow NERDS and CLOWNS:

http://insidethepylon.com/football-.../check-with-me-march-8-the-velocity-question/

https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2...-scout-a-quarterback-part-3-velocity-injuries

 

[daves]

Which thread was that so I can visit?

I believe it's here: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/forum/threads/quarterback-ball-velocity.260712/#post-3683938

...dave

 

[cardncubfan]

Yeah... i didn't buy it there but didn't feel like debating. (I'm a former college physics major.)

Higher release velocity exactly equates to higher functional arm strength. If someone has a "stronger arm" but lower release velocity... he doesn't really have a stronger arm. In given conditions, the time it takes the ball to get to a receiver downfield is determined only by the release velocity, release angle, and spiral. (A poor spiral can cause the ball to decelerate more quickly.) Unless one QB deliberately arcs the ball higher than necessary (not an issue that Rosen has), if two QBs throw to the exact same spot, the one with the higher velocity will get the ball there more quickly.

The fact is that Rosen has well above-average velocity, therefore he has well above-average arm strength.

Now, why would anyone say he has only "average" velocity? The only reason i can think of is that perhaps in game situations, as opposed to the throws he made at the combine, he doesn't always deliver the ball with his full arm strength. I would think that applies to every QB, who in game situations can't make all throws from a perfect stance in a clean pocket. Maybe it applies more to Rosen than to most - i don't know. But it just struck me as strange to see him described with "average" arm strength, then to look up his actual numbers, and find that he has well above average velocity.

...dave

This +1,000,000

 

[cardncubfan]

Wish you had chimed in on the original discussion.

I got my info on Rosen's arm strength off the NFL.com Combine profile page (see description in the section on Weakness). That might be an actual measure to conduct at the combine for QBs. Would make more sense than some of the other drills.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josh-rosen?id=32462018-0002-5600-59bd-f150d938ca3e

Do you have any references to the difference or lack of between arm strength and velocity?

How would you explain my example of the kid throwing the toy at his Dad?

Wouldn't it make sense that a ball thrown faster(velocity) is going to travel farther? Arm strength when throwing a ball isn't measured by who can lift the most. It's who can throw the fastest/farthest. Hence if Rosen has a throws a high velocity ball he has a strong arm.