Give Whizenhunt his due credit:

[Catfish]

While much has been written and said about Whiz being the reason for the poor results of the 2010 season, (and I know this to be true because I was one of the posters calling for his head often and loudly), I believe that Whiz has taken a great first step into correcting the wrongs that were the 2010 season. I believe that despite having to overcome some considerable hurdles while trying to replace Davis, Ken Whizenhunt came up with the best possible choice under the circumstances. LeBeau was not leaving Pittsburgh, and Butler was off-limits by Pittsburgh ownership.
I think LeBeau's ringing endorsement of the Horton hire is testament to Whizenhunt's refusal to give up easily and go for a quick hire of what may have been a lesser talent. Lets give Whis his due here for sticking to his plan and making it work.

I know that no success has yet been achieved by this hire, but there seems to be a definite upside to this hire. The fact that Horton immediately wanted to bring in DeShea Townsend to assist him in the individual teaching of this new system and its intricasies to our players, speaks volumes about Dick LeBeau's faith in Horton, and in Whizenhunt's beleif that Horton can do this job. There is an old saying that, (if you pay attention to the nickel and dime problems, the quarter problems will fall into place). Horton is definitely a man who pays attention to the details, and this should bode well in his endeavor to change our defensive product.

I think that Whizenhunt has made a huge first step in the correction of all that was wrong with 2010, and we are much farther along than we have ever been defensively since Whiz has been here. I look for a very disciplined unit that will be schooled very well on the intricasies of this new system, and the free-lancing will be a thing of the past. I salute the Coach for sticking to his guns in this vital matter, and getting it done.

 

[kerouac9]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb...dy-to-move-up-158862.html?highlight=Henderson

You'll pardon me if I wait and see how the defense performs in games before I congratulate Whisenhunt on his DC appointment.

 

[Catfish]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb...dy-to-move-up-158862.html?highlight=Henderson

You'll pardon me if I wait and see how the defense performs in games before I congratulate Whisenhunt on his DC appointment.

You know K-9, you can wait as long as you want, if that is your wish. I'll not be giving you a pardon however, because I reserve that for those who have acknowleged that they made a mistake and were sincerely apologetic for it. I can't recall having ever heard either of those from you.

I acknowleged in my post that there has been no success yet achieved by this hire. What I congratulated Whiz for was the fact that he made a plan and executed it to the best of his ability. That is not what he did last year, and THAT is why I feel that he has made a good first step in correcting what is wrong here. Once cannot correct what he won't or can't admit was wrong. Whiz made the admission and has set about seeking a correction.

 

[Conquest]

I'll wait to see how well he coaches his own player choices...thus far, it's not been too pretty.

 

[Rats]

I think that he has to rectify mistakes made at the Qb position from last season to get a solid grade this offseason. I have been a harsh critic of his also, but I do recognize that the Front Office has some culpability in some of the bad situations that the coaches were put into last season. We had a very weak payroll and poor choices and gameplanning cost us a weak division. Not getting your top choice for DC does not instill confidence in things so far and I will wait to see what pieces of the puzzle get put together. Whiz admitted he had faith in some guys that did not come through last year. Lets wait and see how those situations get fixed before he gets a huge pat on the back.

 

[Zeno]

Whisenhunt...no Z

Anyway, I wish he'd do something about the offensive coaching staff too. We will still have all the same suspects from last season that led us to...
26th in scoring
31st in total yards
31st in first downs
31st in passing yards
32nd in rushing yards
31st in sacks allowed
32nd in 3rd down %
30th in yards per play

The offensive coaching staff seems to be getting a pass and that concerns me.

 

[kerouac9]

Whisenhunt...no Z

Anyway, I wish he'd do something about the offensive coaching staff too. We will still have all the same suspects from last season that led us to...
26th in scoring
31st in total yards
31st in first downs
31st in passing yards
32nd in rushing yards
31st in sacks allowed
32nd in 3rd down %
30th in yards per play

The offensive coaching staff seems to be getting a pass and that concerns me.

I get that, but if releasing #7 and going with Derek Anderson and Max Hall was on Whis's shoulders only, I can't imagine him being able to fire these guys because he gave them the worst QB situation in the NFL (Maybe the worst in years--clearly worse than Jamarcus Russell).

If the offense is as bad in 2011 as it was in 2010, we're going to have an entirely new coaching staff, anyway.

 

[CardNots]

If the offense is as bad in 2011 as it was in 2010, we're going to have an entirely new coaching staff, anyway.

Not really as we would likely have the #1 pick.

 

[Zeno]

I get that, but if releasing #7 and going with Derek Anderson and Max Hall was on Whis's shoulders only, I can't imagine him being able to fire these guys because he gave them the worst QB situation in the NFL (Maybe the worst in years--clearly worse than Jamarcus Russell).

If the offense is as bad in 2011 as it was in 2010, we're going to have an entirely new coaching staff, anyway.

You have a point, if he is responsible for the QB mess then it would be unfair to hold his coaches accountable...to a point BUT Grimm hasn't proven jack in AZ and seems to be riding his rep as a player. AND promoting a member of the crew that gave us those putrid numbers fails to inspire confidence.

 

[Catfish]

You have a point, if he is responsible for the QB mess then it would be unfair to hold his coaches accountable...to a point BUT Grimm hasn't proven jack in AZ and seems to be riding his rep as a player. AND promoting a member of the crew that gave us those putrid numbers fails to inspire confidence.

All valid points, and in my opinion if he fails to improve the offense, or messes with what Horton wants to do with the defense, then he will deserve his just-dues. Meanwhile, this does seem to be a good first step.

 

[CardLogic]

You have a point, if he is responsible for the QB mess then it would be unfair to hold his coaches accountable...to a point BUT Grimm hasn't proven jack in AZ and seems to be riding his rep as a player. AND promoting a member of the crew that gave us those putrid numbers fails to inspire confidence.

OT: But since Zeno brought up Grimm's name -

Why is it that Russ Grimm has such a poor reputation on this board; yet a sterling reputation as a very good coach throughout NFL circles?

 

[kerouac9]

Not really as we would likely have the #1 pick.

I hope not. You can't carry your coaching staff into a lame duck season AND the #1 overall pick. That's begging for a situation where a new regime walks in and doesn't like the guy who was drafted and wants to change everything.

Like what happened with Whis and #7, or JaMarcus Russell and Lane Kiffin.

If this coaching staff goes from 10-6 to 5-11 to 2-14 (or whatever), no one deserves to stay anyway. At that point, you start fresh, because Whis isn't going to fire his assistants, and the assistants aren't going to get the most out of the players.

BTW, I don't think we end up with the #1 pick in the draft nor fire Whis after this season. I think he learned his lesson about his own personnel arrogance after being embarrassed by three QBs last year.

 

[Paso Fino]

OT: But since Zeno brought up Grimm's name -

Why is it that Russ Grimm has such a poor reputation on this board; yet a sterling reputation as a very good coach throughout NFL circles?

Where did you hear he has such a "sterling reputation .. throughout NFL circles?" I think the comments about Russ Grimm on this board are based on the generally poor performance of the offensive line for quite some time.

 

[CardLogic]

Where did you hear he has such a "sterling reputation .. throughout NFL circles?" I think the comments about Russ Grimm on this board are based on the generally poor performance of the offensive line for quite some time.

Everytime I have ever heard his career mentioned by any analyst (most of them former players or coaches) or current players, or coaches, the description of Grimm is that of being a quality coach.

Ron Wolfley this morning stated, "let me assure you, Russ Grimm is a great coach".

So either they are collectively wrong or the majority opinion of Grimm on this forum is wrong.

 

[juza76]

Everytime I have ever heard his career mentioned by any analyst (most of them former players or coaches) or current players, or coaches, the description of Grimm is that of being a quality coach.

Ron Wolfley this morning stated, "let me assure you, Russ Grimm is a great coach".

So either they are collectively wrong or the majority opinion of Grimm on this forum is wrong.

i know that ron wofley normally breakfast is:
1 tequila sunrise
1 cuba libre
1 mojito
2 shots of vodka

 

[Hypothesis]

i know that ron wofley normally breakfast is:
1 tequila sunrise
1 cuba libre
1 mojito
2 shots of vodka

Breakfast of Champions! Screw Weaties.

 

[Paso Fino]

Everytime I have ever heard his career mentioned by any analyst (most of them former players or coaches) or current players, or coaches, the description of Grimm is that of being a quality coach.

Ron Wolfley this morning stated, "let me assure you, Russ Grimm is a great coach".

So either they are collectively wrong or the majority opinion of Grimm on this forum is wrong.

The only analyst I have heard praise Grimm is Matt Millen and I'll let you decide whether that is a good recommendation. The key question is whether Grimm has produced an effective offensive line. If you think so, you've been watching different games than I have.

 

[conraddobler]

Everytime I have ever heard his career mentioned by any analyst (most of them former players or coaches) or current players, or coaches, the description of Grimm is that of being a quality coach.

Ron Wolfley this morning stated, "let me assure you, Russ Grimm is a great coach".

So either they are collectively wrong or the majority opinion of Grimm on this forum is wrong.

Well he might be a great coach but his player spotting ability could be awful and negate it nearly completely.

 

[Hypothesis]

The only analyst I have heard praise Grimm is Matt Millen and I'll let you decide whether that is a good recommendation. The key question is whether Grimm has produced an effective offensive line. If you think so, you've been watching different games than I have.

You haven't been watching enough football if Matt Millen is the only one who has sung his praises. Almost every analyst and announcer has spoken very highly of Grimm as an OL coach.

 

[Duckjake]

You haven't been watching enough football if Matt Millen is the only one who has sung his praises. Almost every analyst and announcer has spoken very highly of Grimm as an OL coach.

And given who we are in the hierarchy of the NFL I doubt if any of those analysts have ever seen a Cardinal football game unless they were there to watch the other team. So of course that means they paid little to no attention to what the Cards were doing and so don't know what the heck they are talking about.

I mean why do you think every football publication, preseason review, internet blog or whatever always says the same thing about the Cardinals? Because we don't matter and so they don't put any effort into knowing anything about us. That's why we like guys like Sando for instance.

Grimm's blocking schemes are awful. They forced Warner to retire. He gets away with it because he is CKWs pal and has a rep from his days as a player.

 

[Hypothesis]

And given who we are in the hierarchy of the NFL I doubt if any of those analysts have ever seen a Cardinal football game unless they were there to watch the other team. So of course that means they paid little to no attention to what the Cards were doing and so don't know what the heck they are talking about.

I mean why do you think every football publication, preseason review, internet blog or whatever always says the same thing about the Cardinals? Because we don't matter and so they don't put any effort into knowing anything about us. That's why we like guys like Sando for instance.

Grimm's blocking schemes are awful. They forced Warner to retire. He gets away with it because he is CKWs pal and has a rep from his days as a player.

Oh I'm not saying I agree with the analysts and announcers, I'm just pointing out that most of them hold Grimm in high regard.

You brought up some very good points though.

 

[THESMEL]

Good job Ken Whisenhunt. I hope you the best of all worlds.

 

[CardLogic]

You haven't been watching enough football if Matt Millen is the only one who has sung his praises. Almost every analyst and announcer has spoken very highly of Grimm as an OL coach.

Oh I'm not saying I agree with the analysts and announcers, I'm just pointing out that most of them hold Grimm in high regard.

You brought up some very good points though.

This is my point...

There is a disconnect between the paid analyst's opinion of Grimm and the majority of ASFN posters. I am not intending to defend Grimm, but rather to question why is there such a discrepancy.

Duckjake has proffered a hypothesis; the national analysts have not really examined Grimm's performance in Arizona because they don't focus on the Arizonal Cardinals. This may be a partial explanation. But I don't fully accept that because the Cardinals have gained national exposure due to the 2008 and 2009 seasons (prior to 2010's regression to SOC). Plus, Grimm built his reputation in Pittsburgh. Certainly the national media pays attention to what's going on in Pittsburgh, right?

I always hear Pittsburgh mentioned as the model franchise; i.e. - "the way to manage a football franchise". Pittsburgh considered Grimm as a serious head coaching candidate; where they wrong?

Is the national media wrong about Grimm or is the concensus opinion of ASFN wrong about Grimm?

I ask, because I don't know.

 

[Catfish]

This is my point...

There is a disconnect between the paid analyst's opinion of Grimm and the majority of ASFN posters. I am not intending to defend Grimm, but rather to question why is there such a discrepancy.

Duckjake has proffered a hypothesis; the national analysts have not really examined Grimm's performance in Arizona because they don't focus on the Arizonal Cardinals. This may be a partial explanation. But I don't fully accept that because the Cardinals have gained national exposure due to the 2008 and 2009 seasons (prior to 2010's regression to SOC). Plus, Grimm built his reputation in Pittsburgh. Certainly the national media pays attention to what's going on in Pittsburgh, right?

I always hear Pittsburgh mentioned as the model franchise; i.e. - "the way to manage a football franchise". Pittsburgh considered Grimm as a serious head coaching candidate; where they wrong?

Is the national media wrong about Grimm or is the concensus opinion of ASFN wrong about Grimm?

I ask, because I don't know.

Hey Logic-----While I would be the first to tell you that I don't know enough about NFL O-line play to judge Grimm, (or the meadia types for that matter), I do know that we fans of the Cards tend to be much harder on our O-line than we probably should be. I have seen instances where, during the next week after a game, the O-line has been given props by the media, and even some coaches and players of the opponents, yet that same line has been mercilessly trashed on this board. I believe that it is very easy to get disenchanted with a player, (or a group of players), initially, and after that, it is very hard to admit any success on their part. That seems to be the case with Levi Brown, who is almost totally dispised on this board, but who gets decent reviews from the media and the league. How else would he have been given the opportuntiy to play in the pro-bowl as an alternate?

I really believe that many of us posters have such a clouded vision of him being chosen #3 instead of Adrian Peterson, that they can't get past that. Remember, Leonard Davis was also viewed as trash when he was here by our posters, yet he had a decent and productive stint with Dallas when he was allowed to play at guard instead of tackle. I just don't think that most of us have the expertise to determine just what IS good line play in the NFL. I have seen linemen get trashed on this board for giving up five sacks in a season, yet that was pretty normal for linemen in the league at the time. We tend to be more harsh in our judgements because we feel let down as fans of the team when there is not success.

I'd like to add one more thing here. Doug France was a long time poster on this board, and was a long time Offensive Tackle with the Rams. I can't recall one time that he denegrated anyone on this team for poor line play. I am not saying that he didn't feel it, but that he certainly didn't come out professing that. I would tend to think that means something.

 

[bg7brd]

Hey Logic-----While I would be the first to tell you that I don't know enough about NFL O-line play to judge Grimm, (or the meadia types for that matter), I do know that we fans of the Cards tend to be much harder on our O-line than we probably should be. I have seen instances where, during the next week after a game, the O-line has been given props by the media, and even some coaches and players of the opponents, yet that same line has been mercilessly trashed on this board. I believe that it is very easy to get disenchanted with a player, (or a group of players), initially, and after that, it is very hard to admit any success on their part. That seems to be the case with Levi Brown, who is almost totally dispised on this board, but who gets decent reviews from the media and the league. How else would he have been given the opportuntiy to play in the pro-bowl as an alternate?

I really believe that many of us posters have such a clouded vision of him being chosen #3 instead of Adrian Peterson, that they can't get past that. Remember, Leonard Davis was also viewed as trash when he was here by our posters, yet he had a decent and productive stint with Dallas when he was allowed to play at guard instead of tackle. I just don't think that most of us have the expertise to determine just what IS good line play in the NFL. I have seen linemen get trashed on this board for giving up five sacks in a season, yet that was pretty normal for linemen in the league at the time. We tend to be more harsh in our judgements because we feel let down as fans of the team when there is not success.

I'd like to add one more thing here. Doug France was a long time poster on this board, and was a long time Offensive Tackle with the Rams. I can't recall one time that he denegrated anyone on this team for poor line play. I am not saying that he didn't feel it, but that he certainly didn't come out professing that. I would tend to think that means something.

You make a good point.