Go Lakers! Go Lakers?

[TJ]

it would be AWESOME if Kobe somehow got hurt and Nash led them to a title. He could form a DOMINATING pick and roll with Bynum and Pau. That would be the best of all possible scenarios.

Kobe, Bynum, and MWP would all have to sustain injury or disappear for me to even consider being somewhat content with the potential coronation of Nash. All three, I'm convinced, are the spawn of Satan.

 

[Folster]

I'll root for the Lakers against the Heat and that's it.

 

[TJ]

No way was Nash leaving worse than the Lebron situation. Lebron's was immeasurably worse.

Not even close, my friend.

James gave the Cavs eight years to build a franchise around him, only to be asked to settle for bringing in Jamison and a 58 year old Shaq into the mold as a half-assed attempt at appeasing the franchise's greatest asset. He was a free agent and free to choose whatever franchise to sign with. James was not happy with the product being sold to him in Cleveland, he left. Anyone who has ever changed jobs will probably cite similar reasons for why s/he left the previous company.

James' decision was heavily criticized when it occurred, but look at the reaction of Cavs' owner Dan Gilbert and tell me you would not have done the same. Gilbert acted like a petulant child who just lost his ball and continues to do so. Writes a letter to the fans making promises he could not keep and refuses to give Lebron any credit for winning a title. His reactions along with the questionable personnel moves give a good enough glimpse into the inner-workings of the organization to realize there was something functionally wrong. Literally, the Cavs went from first to worst upon James' departure. If Kobe left the Lakers, they would still be a playoff team because they have a great supporting cast.

Of course, "The Decision" was in bad taste, but Lebron did raise $2 million for the Boys and Girls club and has since shown remorse for that along with the Big 3 Pep Rally.

Both Gilbert and Sarver can be squarely blamed for their franchises losing their respective star players. They refused to see the forest through the trees and were maladroitly convinced that the face of their franchise had unconditional support for the organization despite their ill-fated attempts to build a legit title contender.

 

[CardsFan88]

Not even close, my friend.

James gave the Cavs eight years to build a franchise around him, only to be asked to settle for bringing in Jamison and a 58 year old Shaq into the mold as a half-assed attempt at appeasing the franchise's greatest asset. He was a free agent and free to choose whatever franchise to sign with. James was not happy with the product being sold to him in Cleveland, he left. Anyone who has ever changed jobs will probably cite similar reasons for why s/he left the previous company.

James' decision was heavily criticized when it occurred, but look at the reaction of Cavs' owner Dan Gilbert and tell me you would not have done the same. Gilbert acted like a petulant child who just lost his ball and continues to do so. Writes a letter to the fans making promises he could not keep and refuses to give Lebron any credit for winning a title. His reactions along with the questionable personnel moves give a good enough glimpse into the inner-workings of the organization to realize there was something functionally wrong. Literally, the Cavs went from first to worst upon James' departure. If Kobe left the Lakers, they would still be a playoff team because they have a great supporting cast.

Of course, "The Decision" was in bad taste, but Lebron did raise $2 million for the Boys and Girls club and has since shown remorse for that along with the Big 3 Pep Rally.

Both Gilbert and Sarver can be squarely blamed for their franchises losing their respective star players. They refused to see the forest through the trees and were maladroitly convinced that the face of their franchise had unconditional support for the organization despite their ill-fated attempts to build a legit title contender.

Disagreeing is the hallmark of this country. This is how I see it.

You might (or might not) forget that Cleveland had made plenty of moves that weren't really good, but they made them for LeBron. Lebron desired certain players, and they got them for him. Then after a few years of building the team this way, they were in a bind.

They knew they needed to do more, but the options dwindled. So the moves weren't very good, but they kept trying because they wanted to continue to please LeBron. They just couldn't cater to his wishes because of the limits.

The front office, with LeBron's input and desires shaped the bad situation he was in. If he felt cornered because the Cavs couldn't do more, it was because of them doing Lebron's bidding. Lebron built that house and then left the tab for someone else to pick up.

The product the Cavs were selling was a direct representation of LeBron's wishes up until the last few moves. After all the previous years moves, they were cornered, yet he wanted more like a petulant child.

But the Cavs can't turn LeBron's bad desires (which admittedly they listened to) and suddenly start with a clear slate in order to satisfy him. He shared in the blame of where that franchise was, and just ditched it after he directed it to be ran into the ditch he was in. LeBron also wasn't the only defection afterwards. So it was LeBron & others that led to such a decline.

If the Cavs had space and opportunities they would have continued to do everything Lebron wanted. They simply couldn't do it anymore....temporarily. Given a couple of years, which HE had (Nash doesn't), they could of righted the ship and rebuilt around him. Hell then try that run....rebuild for a couple of years, and probably even go back for another run. This is how it could of played out. Instead LeBron went for the quick fix.

When you don't have options, it's not like they half-assed it. They simply couldn't do more. LeBron used that as an excuse to leave.

Even then look at the success he had, the willingness to rebuild as soon as they possibly could, and the reason they were in a bind to begin with, and you can come to an entirely different conclusion.

You could say in 2005-2006 was when they turned the corner so we'll start there
05-06: 50-32
06-07: 50-32 - Lost in the finals
07-08: 45-37
08-09: 66-16
09-10: 61-21

So 3 of his last 4 years they did extremely well. Five straight years over .500. The last two years they had 127 wins. One would think that builds enough cred with someone to attempt a rebuilding.

That's better than any two year stretch the Suns have ever had.

When you are hamstrung by decisions to appease LeBron's desires and they fail, and you need to take a step back from almost the top, at his young age, there simply was no reason he couldn't of done so. Even Kobe didn't make the playoffs a year or two on the Lakers.

He was a free agent not because he wasn't offered a max contract, but because he wanted to leave.

So in reality James wasn't happy because his ideas for players around him didn't work out. They were cornered, LeBron didn't like that. The Cavs THEN made moves that LeBron didn't appreciate, but really was all they could do given reality. He left.

$arver has shown complete incompetence and being pennywise and pound foolish, yet Nash remained loyal. We don't know how this off-season move triggered everything. But according to Nash it was obvious to him we wanted to move in another direction, whereas the Cavs wanted LeBron for the max. The offer we had on the table wasn't a max deal. This is a huge difference.

I agree the Cavs owner was in poor taste, but only AFTER LeBron did what he did. It doesn't make one a bad owner, for reacting to the way LeBron left them in a lurch. He took the Cavs to that party, and then because he had the keys he ditched them there.

He got heavily invested in LeBron, and tried to give him everything he wanted that was possible, and it still wasn't enough. Then to go through the humiliation they did with the decision, I also even though I thought it in poor taste, can't exactly blame the guy.

The inner workings are LeBron asked and received everything he wanted until the structure of the league wouldn't allow for it. It wasn't the Cavs owner that stopped LeBron getting what he wanted. It was league rules. LeBron wrongly blamed the Cavs organization for something that was more LeBron's fault than the Cavs. LeBron's desire was grounded by league rules and merely the Cavs enabling him.

He doesn't need to win every year. He was coming off a better two year stretch than the Suns ever had. He had an owner willing to spend whatever it took and sign/trade for guys LeBron wanted. It wasn't enough for LeBron because he needed to win 'now' and take the easy way....a team which had cap space that LeBron hadn't filled up with incorrect requests. The reason why LeBron thought nothing of getting free agents together like a GM with the Heat, is basically he had been the Cavs GM and ran them into the ground. Of course they had a GM that could of said no, or had a different and better idea. But they treated him like god because they wanted him a Cav for life.

That's why I think it's different. He built the Cavs, then ditched them when their options were out. Everything was given to him. But LeBron was impatient to win a ring at what 25 or 26 years old?

Nash had all his options taken away, still stayed two years ago when he was well over 10 years older than LeBron was when he made the decision, was given a short uninspiring offer if any, and instead of coming off two non-playoff seasons, LeBron was coming off a 66 and 61 win season cap strapped because of LeBron's wishes, and was being offered the max with 10-12 years (perhaps more) left in his career.

It's all good if we disagree but I remember every time the Cavs made a move during his first few years, it was always about what LeBron wanted and reported that way. Meanwhile Nash wanted his players to stay, but $arver got rid of them. It's almost as if we should have been treated like the Cavs were, and the Cavs should have been treated like we were. I'm glad it didn't happen to us like that. But if anyone deserved the 'lebron touch' it was $arver.

Maybe an analogy to end it may help people show how I see it.

LeBron basically designed his house, yet because his wife changed the game room into a dry food pantry because the credit card's were maxed, Lebron decided he couldn't live there under such heinous conditions and divorced his wife and moved with a buddy into the home of a couple of strippers and emailed the ex-wife the pictures.

Nash was living in a house that kept getting mortgaged with the interest rating rising under a variable rate mortgage (ARM), and tightened his belt and kept paying for years, even close to retirement, until finally the bank came and said they needed a balloon payment so he went somewhere else and paid off the debt.

I just can't say the two things are equal. Just because the Cavs owner acted in poor taste after being jilted with the stripper pictures.

But I guess we can agree to disagree, and hope the analogy at least was a good read. Sometimes disagreements bring out funny analogy's

 

[dodie53]

is Hill signing with LA too?

 

[CardsFan88]

is Hill signing with LA too?

Only speculation so far. There is someone from the NY Times saying Hill will either retire or go to the Lakers.

He is undergoing the Kobe platelet surgery on his knee in Germany.

Also there are reports that Nash is going to try to get him to go there.

If I remember to last offseason his wife wanted him to go to a specific team and not the Suns...it was either the Lakers or the Heat. I think it was the Lakers though.

So imo I think the Lakers chances are excellent.

 

[sunsfan88]

The thing I hate most about Nash possibly winning a ring next year is that it would also mean Kobe gets his 6th tying him for most with Michael Jordan. Then you will be hearing all the Fakers fans talking about how Kobe is better than MJ etc when that couldn't be further from the truth.

If Kobe could just retire before the start of the season....

 

[leclerc]

I love Nash and hope he does well in LA, but I'm never going to root for the Lakers. If they win they win. If they loose all the better.