Good Luck Karlos

[Duckjake]

They are in terms of contracts for LB's. Dansby is looking for Urlacher and Lewis money of which he is not in their class. Weakside ILB vs. strong side ILB doesnt matter when it comes to contracts and are comparable.

Why?

Wish I'd never read this: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/seahawks/2006-03-28-peterson_x.htm

 

[DaisyCutter]

Tedy Bruschi

Bruschi has a $1.7 million Cap value in 2008. Do you really believe that any other team in the NFL would value a 35 year old systems linebacker?

 

[earthsci]

Bruschi has a $1.7 million Cap value in 2008. Do you really believe that any other team in the NFL would value a 35 year old systems linebacker?

It's a reward from the team and because he is a fan favorite. He signed his prior contract well below market value to stay in New England.

 

[black]

The Cards may give in. Dansby gets 8+ mil this year, and if he gets tagged again, it's another 9 mil. May as well marry him.

 

[DaisyCutter]

It's a reward from the team and because he is a fan favorite. He signed his prior contract well below market value to stay in New England.

I haven't been able to find the details on that deal, although I see references to it. It's hard to say that's the case. He was 31 years old at the time (2004), and playing for a team that (1) he had won two Super Bowls with, and (2) he knew would use the money responsibly to field a winning team. Those are two things that you can't say for the Cards right now.

 

[earthsci]

I haven't been able to find the details on that deal, although I see references to it. It's hard to say that's the case. He was 31 years old at the time (2004), and playing for a team that (1) he had won two Super Bowls with, and (2) he knew would use the money responsibly to field a winning team. Those are two things that you can't say for the Cards right now.

Perhaps but it does show that not

every single player in the NFL

is

more concerned with getting paid then playing in a certain city.

There are players that do allow for a little bit of the team discount. Karlos doesn't seem to be one of them.

I would be happier than hell if we signed him today but we all know that it won't happen. He'll play his heart out this year because of the money. After that, he'll either get a contract as good or better than Calvin Pace, or he won't. If he does, it won't be from the Cardinals and IMO that's a good thing because we will be putting all of our money into too few players.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Perhaps but it does show that not is There are players that do allow for a little bit of the team discount. Karlos doesn't seem to be one of them.

I would be happier than hell if we signed him today but we all know that it won't happen. He'll play his heart out this year because of the money. After that, he'll either get a contract as good or better than Calvin Pace, or he won't. If he does, it won't be from the Cardinals and IMO that's a good thing because we will be putting all of our money into too few players.

I don't know. Since the number being bandied about is Will Witherspoon's contract, I thought I'd look it up: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/rams/2006-03-13-witherspoon-deal_x.htm

Two years ago, Witherspoon go 6 years, $33 million, with $13 million guaranteed. That averages out to about $5.5 million per season. That contract will be three years old next season. Is there any doubt that Dansby would get considerably more than that deal?

I think that Dansby would come off that $9 million figure, but there's little doubt in my mind that Dansby's being low-balled with the offer on the table. Tatupu was still two years from free agency when he signed his extension, which is why the Seahawks got a discount (and why the Cards got a discount on Boldin's second contract, as well).

I think that if the Cards gave Dansby a contract for 5 years, $40 million, with $18 guaranteed (backloaded so that he's getting a base salary of $10 million in the final year), he'd sign that deal. But if the deal the Cards are offering is in line with a non-Pro Bowl player two years ago?

 

[Duckjake]

In addition Dansby is a better player than Witherspoon.

 

[DaisyCutter]

In addition Dansby is a better player than Witherspoon.

I don't know. Witherspoon was really good for the Rams last season. I think the difference is that they play very different roles in the defenses. Witherspoon is the Rams' MLB; Dansby plays the weakside LB position for the Cards. Pisa Tinoisamoa (sp) plays Dansby's position for the Rams.

Dansby's the second-best player at his position in the NFC West, after Julian Peterson.

The second story is that as much as people here love Gerald Hayes, there's no question that he's the weakest player at his position in the division. That's why you don't hear him asking for more money.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I don't know. Witherspoon was really good for the Rams last season. I think the difference is that they play very different roles in the defenses. Witherspoon is the Rams' MLB; Dansby plays the weakside LB position for the Cards. Pisa Tinoisamoa (sp) plays Dansby's position for the Rams.

Dansby's the second-best player at his position in the NFC West, after Julian Peterson.

The second story is that as much as people here love Gerald Hayes, there's no question that he's the weakest player at his position in the division. That's why you don't hear him asking for more money.

Given that there's only one other 3-4 team in the division, it would mean that he's not as good as "what's his name" (?), in your opinion.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Given that there's only one other 3-4 team in the division, it would mean that he's not as good as "what's his name" (?), in your opinion.

Meh. The other three players at the MLB position in our division are Lofa Tatupu, Will Witherspoon, and Patrick Willis. You can argue semantics if you really want to--I'm not going to engage with you on it--but you'll have a difficult case to make that there's a team in the NFL that would take Hayes over those other three players.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Meh. The other three players at the MLB position in our division are Lofa Tatupu, Will Witherspoon, and Patrick Willis. You can argue semantics if you really want to--I'm not going to engage with you on it--but you'll have a difficult case to make that there's a team in the NFL that would take Hayes over those other three players.

Semantics? No need to engage, as the FACT remains that Patrick Willis is the only 3-4 linebacker against which one can compare Hayes.

 

[Duckjake]

I don't know. Witherspoon was really good for the Rams last season. I think the difference is that they play very different roles in the defenses. Witherspoon is the Rams' MLB; Dansby plays the weakside LB position for the Cards. Pisa Tinoisamoa (sp) plays Dansby's position for the Rams.

Dansby's the second-best player at his position in the NFC West, after Julian Peterson.

Dansby's been in the NFL for 4 seasons and has the following numbers: 20.5 sacks, 7 INTs, and 8 Forced Fumbles.

Peterson's first 4 year numbers: 16 sacks, 5 INTs and 4 FF.

Tough to make any comparison however with Dansby and other LBs because of his position switch last year but there aren't too many LBs who have the number of sacks AND forced turnovers that Dansby has over a 4 year period.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Dansby's been in the NFL for 4 seasons and has the following numbers: 20.5 sacks, 7 INTs, and 8 Forced Fumbles.

Peterson's first 4 year numbers: 16 sacks, 5 INTs and 4 FF.

Tough to make any comparison however with Dansby and other LBs because of his position switch last year but there aren't too many LBs who have the number of sacks AND forced turnovers that Dansby has over a 4 year period.

Wow. That's really unfair, and I'm sure you know it. Peterson only played 5 games in 2004 due to injury. He was still limited by that injury in 2005, but still managed to collect 3.0 sacks playing out of position in the 3-4 defense that Mike Nolan was trying to install--which should remain a lesson to those who think that Dansby is best suited to the outside role currently played by Bertrand Berry and Travis LaBoy.

The last two seasons playing WLB in Seattle's pressure defense (not far from what Clancy Pendergast would be playing if he had his 'druthers), he's collected 19.5 sacks to go with 3 INTs and 5 forced fumbles.

It's kind of shameful that you felt the need to massage the stats that way. You're usually a fair dealer. I love Karlos Dansby and firmly believe that he's been the most consistent playmaker on our defense since he got here. But Julian Peterson is a man-beast. Hopefully Dansby develops into a similar player--should he remain a Cardinal.

 

[BigRedRage]

Hayes may not be the best MLB in the division but he is a good MLB and there is no need to address the position.

 

[Duckjake]

Wow. That's really unfair, and I'm sure you know it. Peterson only played 5 games in 2004 due to injury.


It's kind of shameful that you felt the need to massage the stats that way. You're usually a fair dealer. I love Karlos Dansby and firmly believe that he's been the most consistent playmaker on our defense since he got here. But Julian Peterson is a man-beast. Hopefully Dansby develops into a similar player--should he remain a Cardinal.

Peterson's first 4 year numbers: 16 sacks, 5 INTs and 4 FF.

2004 was Peterson's 5th year in the NFL.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wow. That's really unfair, and I'm sure you know it. Peterson only played 5 games in 2004 due to injury. He was still limited by that injury in 2005, but still managed to collect 3.0 sacks playing out of position in the 3-4 defense that Mike Nolan was trying to install--which should remain a lesson to those who think that Dansby is best suited to the outside role currently played by Bertrand Berry and Travis LaBoy.

The last two seasons playing WLB in Seattle's pressure defense (not far from what Clancy Pendergast would be playing if he had his 'druthers), he's collected 19.5 sacks to go with 3 INTs and 5 forced fumbles.

It's kind of shameful that you felt the need to massage the stats that way. You're usually a fair dealer. I love Karlos Dansby and firmly believe that he's been the most consistent playmaker on our defense since he got here. But Julian Peterson is a man-beast. Hopefully Dansby develops into a similar player--should he remain a Cardinal.[/quote
So Peterson missed about as many games in 1 year as Dansby has in his career and Karlos has the durability issues with some people????????????

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

i'll post the myth about Dansby's durability again


2004- Dansby 15 games
2005 Dansby 15 games
2006 Dansby 14 games
2007 Dansby 14 games

so in 4 years he has missed 6 games.

Gerald Hayes:2004 16 games
2005 0 games
2006 14 games
2007 16 games
in 4 years, he's missed 18 games

Anquan Boldin:2004 10 games
2005 14 games
2006 16 games
2007 12 games
he's missed 12 games in 4 years

Adrian Wilson will miss more games this year than Dansby has in 4 years.

Let's look at some of the top LB's in the game over the last 4 years
Urlacher missed 7 games
Zach Thomas 16 games
Merriman 6 games(over 3 years and a suspension)
Julian Peterson 12 games
Mike Peterson 16 games
Ray Lewis 13 games

So,please explain to me again how durability is an issue with Dansby

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.

 

[vinnymac]

I tried to post the stats but they didn't turn out. Got to this adress & compare Dansby to Ray Lewis & Brain Urlacher.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2140

 

[DaisyCutter]

2004 was Peterson's 5th year in the NFL.

I'm sorry. I totally misread your post. I take it all back. It's worth noting though that Julian Peterson only started 7 games his rookie season, and Dansby has been a starter essentially since he was drafted.

Dansby's career stats: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6792&team=22
58 games, 253 tackles, 20.5 sacks, 7 INTs, 21 passes defensed, 9 forced fumbles.

Peterson's career stats: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5045&team=26
59 games (53 starts), 213 tackles, 16 sacks, 5 INTs, 32 passes defensed, 5 forced fumbles.

Wow. That productivity is pretty amazing. I think people forget sometimes that linebackers peak a little further along in their careers. Derrick Brooks didn't really start to peak until his 4-8th seasons. It really is essential that the Cards find a way to keep Dansby in the fold after this year.

 

[Duckjake]

I'm sorry. I totally misread your post. I take it all back. It's worth noting though that Julian Peterson only started 7 games his rookie season, and Dansby has been a starter essentially since he was drafted.

Dansby's career stats: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6792&team=22
58 games, 253 tackles, 20.5 sacks, 7 INTs, 21 passes defensed, 9 forced fumbles.

Peterson's career stats: http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5045&team=26
59 games (53 starts), 213 tackles, 16 sacks, 5 INTs, 32 passes defensed, 5 forced fumbles.

Wow. That productivity is pretty amazing. I think people forget sometimes that linebackers peak a little further along in their careers. Derrick Brooks didn't really start to peak until his 4-8th seasons. It really is essential that the Cards find a way to keep Dansby in the fold after this year.

Well I wasn't really clear in the point I was trying to make that Dansby is on the same career track as Julian P rather than trying to say who is better.

That's why the story I posted on JP worries me so much because it is so similar to the current situation with Dansby.

Note to anyone trying to compare stats: You have to multiply Dansby's first three years stats by 1.78493 to adjust to what he would have done playing for a real NFL football coaching staff.

 

[Duckjake]

I tried to post the stats but they didn't turn out. Got to this adress & compare Dansby to Ray Lewis & Brain Urlacher.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2140

You can't compare Dansby to RLewis and BUrlacher. Thats like saying that Ben Patrick isn't that good because he doesn't have as many receptions as Boldin or Fitzgerald.

 

[vinnymac]

You can't compare Dansby to RLewis and BUrlacher. Thats like saying that Ben Patrick isn't that good because he doesn't have as many receptions as Boldin or Fitzgerald.

If you are asking for more money than the top 2 at that position, then yes you can. I would compare Ben Patrick to Gates & Gonzales.

 

[Duckjake]

If you are asking for more money than the top 2 at that position, then yes you can. I would compare Ben Patrick to Gates & Gonzales.

Gates and Gonzales play the same position as Patrick. Urlacher and Lewis do not play the same position as Dansby.

Dansby is probably asking for more money than many of the top left guards in the league. Should we compare him to them?

 

[vinnymac]

Gates and Gonzales play the same position as Patrick. Urlacher and Lewis do not play the same position as Dansby.

Dansby is probably asking for more money than many of the top left guards in the league. Should we compare him to them?

The last time I check Dansby plays ILb in a 3-4 scheme. Patrick Willis plays the same position as Dansby. Willis put up huge numbers. He was a rookie on top of that. You are the one wanting to compare a 7th round Te to Boldin & Fitzgerald. The last time I check Ben Patrick wasn't asking for Gonzales & Gates money. Dansby asking to be the highest paid linebacker. If you are going to give nine million dollars to a player, then give it to Boldin. Someone who can make a play & score.