Good Morning - I guess No Horton

[RugbyMuffin]

So tell me again why Bruce Arians isn't the answer?

Arians is Whiz part II, whom has had success when a QB is there for him to use. What has this guy done to shown he can do anything to help AZ? Takes really good QB's and puts them in positions where they have to constantly extend plays, and take big hits ? Big Ben has been pratically murdered in Arians system, and Luck got hit so much this year it was a miracle he survived his first year.

Just my opinion of the guy.

He has the same story as Horton by the way. If he is so good then why is he not hired ?

 

[kerouac9]

Arians is Whiz part II, whom has had success when a QB is there for him to use. What has this guy done to shown he can do anything to help AZ? Takes really good QB's and puts them in positions where they have to constantly extend plays, and take big hits ? Big Ben has been pratically murdered in Arians system, and Luck got hit so much this year it was a miracle he survived his first year.

Done.

I don't think that's system, though. I think that's personnel. Expect Indy to make huge investments in interior linemen in this draft, and to get younger on defense. Same with Pittsburgh. Was Haley more effective at reducing the amount of hits that Roethlisberger was taking? No, their line was again murdered by injuries, including the stud offensive guard.

Pittsburgh started 8 different offensive linemen last year.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Again, Ray Horton isn't leaving. If he'd been impressive enough, he would have been hired as someone else's head coach. Don't mess with what works unless you absolutely have to. Horton isn't going to have the pick of offensive coordinators, and it's possible that guys wouldn't be thrilled to come here, or we'd have to settle for inexperienced guys.

Yeah, that is understood.

A lot of my worry is a complete lack of faith in the Cardinals front office. Cause while I think Horton is the guy, there is without a doubt, a question in what he would do offensively.

The thought of having someone that has the ability to motivate, and have guys buy into the system is huge in my opinion. Horton seems to have that knack. Not system works if the players don't buy in with Philly being the classic example of that.

Now to be fair, I was all for bringing in McCoy, and while others are not so high on Jay Gruden, I would be OK with him as well.

Yes, in both those scenarios we risk losing the defense that is without a doubt the team's strong point. In which, if I had confidence in the Cardinals front office, I would be OK, not thrilled, to sacrifice the defense for the offense.

My fear is the Cardinals are trying to do just that, and we will end up with a McGinnis type roster that can do ANYTHING.

In some ways, Horton has some of the same problems that Whis did. He was in the same place for so long, he doesn't have the developed relationships with coaches outside of the Steelers organization.

That is a great point........doesn't help my cause tho

 

[MadCardDisease]

Fair enough.

So, does that go across the board. Can't comment on anything dubbed a rumor?



Fair enough.

Yes you can report on rumors.

However it's important to seperate fact from rumor and the referenced report clearly falls in the rumor bucket.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't think that's system, though. I think that's personnel. Expect Indy to make huge investments in interior linemen in this draft, and to get younger on defense. Same with Pittsburgh. Was Haley more effective at reducing the amount of hits that Roethlisberger was taking? No, their line was again murdered by injuries, including the stud offensive guard.

Pittsburgh started 8 different offensive linemen last year.

Fair enough.

The Cardinals have a pretty poor offensive line, and NO QB. I don't see how Arians makes it work in AZ.

Not saying he cannot, just saying I personally can't see it. Which amounts to a hill of beans, I know.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Yes you can report on rumors.

However it's important to seperate fact from rumor and the referenced report clearly falls in the rumor bucket.

True.

I need an damn editor. I should have definitely put that in the original post.

Will do.

 

[kerouac9]

Yeah, that is understood.

A lot of my worry is a complete lack of faith in the Cardinals front office. Cause while I think Horton is the guy, there is without a doubt, a question in what he would do offensively.

The thought of having someone that has the ability to motivate, and have guys buy into the system is huge in my opinion. Horton seems to have that knack. Not system works if the players don't buy in with Philly being the classic example of that.

Now to be fair, I was all for bringing in McCoy, and while others are not so high on Jay Gruden, I would be OK with him as well.

Yes, in both those scenarios we risk losing the defense that is without a doubt the team's strong point. In which, if I had confidence in the Cardinals front office, I would be OK, not thrilled, to sacrifice the defense for the offense.

My fear is the Cardinals are trying to do just that, and we will end up with a McGinnis type roster that can do ANYTHING.



That is a great point........doesn't help my cause tho

I don't know much about Gruden other than his results with the Bengals--which IMO were impressive--and what I heard in the press conference that the Cards syndicated. That said, he didn't seem much of a departure from Whis in terms of temperament or approach. That's not necessarily a bad thing; I never got the impression that the roster had quit on Ken Whisenhunt, but it's something to think about.

I think the Cards erred in not looking harder at Rob Chudzinski (sp, I'm sure). That dude has a ton of respect and has been around the NFL for a while. I think that he's going to do really solid work in Cleveland.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I don't know much about Gruden other than his results with the Bengals--which IMO were impressive--and what I heard in the press conference that the Cards syndicated. That said, he didn't seem much of a departure from Whis in terms of temperament or approach. That's not necessarily a bad thing; I never got the impression that the roster had quit on Ken Whisenhunt, but it's something to think about.

I think the Cards erred in not looking harder at Rob Chudzinski (sp, I'm sure). That dude has a ton of respect and has been around the NFL for a while. I think that he's going to do really solid work in Cleveland.

Jay Gruden wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Gruden

He has a great background in my opinion, and openly admits that his success in the Arena league is NOT the NFL. Two different sports, but the player management, and the undeniable success he has had are things he can hang his hat on.

 

[Chopper0080]

Well, it is Wednesday morning and the Cardinals did not hire Ray Horton.

EDIT: Based on this rumor/report/thread: http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/horton-expects-to-hear-from-cards-by-tuesday-190183.html

-shout out to my editor, MCD-

I guess Bidwill has decided he is going offense or bust......so, he is going bust, IMO.

Bruce Arians ?

Todd Haley ?

Darrell Bevell ?

Seriously ? These are better options then Ray Horton ?


Arians is Whiz part II, whom has had success when a QB is there for him to use. What has this guy done to shown he can do anything to help AZ? Takes really good QB's and puts them in positions where they have to constantly extend plays, and take big hits ? Big Ben has been pratically murdered in Arians system, and Luck got hit so much this year it was a miracle he survived his first year. THIS is the guy ?

Todd Haley..... my point is already made. Is Haley allowed to check his office for wires before he comes in ? If we want to top out at .500 record wise, then he is our guy. If we want to piss off have the roster, then Todd is our guy. And again.......Whiz part II.

So far we have two guys that would make firing Whiz in the first place look ridiculous.

Darrell Bevell. - Such a good prospect that the Cardinals have waited this long to interview a guy who is on the West Coast. But we have the mobile QB, great power runner, and stout offensive line he needs to his system right ? ..... Oh yeah we don't. Right now ? Bevell is spelled - P A N I C.


Ray Horton ? Not even going to hash it all out again how this guy should already have the job. He has a plan, he has all the tape in the world to show what he can do with players, and improve a unit with a years time. .... just ridiculous that the Cardinals would hang him out to dry. But, that is the Cardinals for you.

Pretty pissed Bidwill couldn't get it together before today. Due dilligence ?

Graves is gone, Whiz is gone. If anything, we the fans are going to find out who the problem in that front office is.

Was Graves the snail, or was Graves just forced to ride the snail ?

How can you have doubt Rugby? Haven't you heard, this organization has changed. By having 3 successful years in 60, they have earned the benfit of the doubt.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Don't worry RM...Horton is our next head coach.

No big name candidate is going to walk into this place. We have become one of the worst teams in the league and in the worst position to suceed next year.

No proven QB.
Two injury prone RB's.
A below mediocre offensive line.
Last in a division with possibly the 2 best teams in the NFC going into 2013.
A new basically rookie GM.
A front office in total disarray.

good god, you just painted an ugly picture for us.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

good god, you just painted an ugly picture for us.

It's the fact of the matter.

Thus why Whiz and Graves where shown the door. There are others that are liable, but they cannot be fired.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

How can you have doubt Rugby? Haven't you heard, this organization has changed. By having 3 successful years in 60, they have earned the benefit of the doubt.

I know, I know.

I am a horrible, horrible fan that should be thrown away. I know. How dare I !

 

[MadCardDisease]

good god, you just painted an ugly picture for us.

Made the decision for McCoy easy.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Reason Arians hasn't been hired by one of these teams? To me, it's cut and dry.. At 60, he's an older guy in a coaching fraternity full of guys under 50. Plus, that health scare right before the AFC Wild Card game may have scared a few off.

My reply to his inability to win without QB in place: He was the OC of Cleveland's only playoff team since returning to the league. The QB of that team? Tim Couch/Kelly Holcomb. Couch was out of the league the very next year and Holcomb was out of it within three and never started again on the NFL.

Lastly, Roethlisberger getting killed with the OLine isn't an indication of Arians' system; it's indicative of both Roethlisberger holding on to the football far too long and Pittsburgh's belief in making a patchwork offensive line. Outside of this season, the Steelers had used ONE first rounder on an Olineman (Pouncey) in Roethlisberger's career, and haven't exactly burned the free agent market with signing guards. If you've seen some of the Oline's Roethlisberger has had to play behind, it'd make the ones the Cards have look like Pro Bowlers.

 

[desertdawg]

Reason Arians hasn't been hired by one of these teams? To me, it's cut and dry.. At 60, he's an older guy in a coaching fraternity full of guys under 50. Plus, that health scare right before the AFC Wild Card game may have scared a few off.

My reply to his inability to win without QB in place: He was the OC of Cleveland's only playoff team since returning to the league. The QB of that team? Tim Couch/Kelly Holcomb. Couch was out of the league the very next year and Holcomb was out of it within three and never started again on the NFL.

Lastly, Roethlisberger getting killed with the OLine isn't an indication of Arians' system; it's indicative of both Roethlisberger holding on to the football far too long and Pittsburgh's belief in making a patchwork offensive line. Outside of this season, the Steelers had used ONE first rounder on an Olineman (Pouncey) in Roethlisberger's career, and haven't exactly burned the free agent market with signing guards. If you've seen some of the Oline's Roethlisberger has had to play behind, it'd make the ones the Cards have look like Pro Bowlers.

Plus his name sounds racist!!

 

[daves]

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/f4/horton-expects-to-hear-from-cards-by-tuesday-190183.html

I am more upset that they lied to Horton, but that is what the Cardinals do to people and players that the fans love, the players respect, and who are the few in the organization people respect.

Please explain exactly how the Cardinals lied to Horton?

From the article at the link you posted:

A source with knowledge of the situation tells PFT that Horton currently isn’t aware of the team’s plans for him, and that he expects to hear more by Tuesday.

So do you know that Horton did not "hear more" on Tuesday? And do you vouch for the accuracy of PFT and their unknown source?

Funny how unfounded speculation and imaginings become fact around here.

...dave

EDIT: Oops, i see this has already been covered. Didn't intend to pile on and my comment wasn't aimed only at Rugby's post but at something that seems to happen a lot around here (and surely on every other internet message board in the world).

 

[RugbyMuffin]

EDIT: Oops, i see this has already been covered. Didn't intend to pile on and my comment wasn't aimed only at Rugby's post but at something that seems to happen a lot around here (and surely on every other internet message board in the world).

Its all good in the hood.

 

[Hollywood]

I know, I know.

I am a horrible, horrible fan that should be thrown away. I know. How dare I !