Gooden Signs Three Year Deal With Cavs

[fordronken]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2549112

 

[Muggum]

That deal sounds about right. Thankfully, the Nene insanity is fading into the past, replaced by sane deals.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm wondering if the Suns will try to sign Diaw for 5 or 6 years? Al Harrington is still getting a good chunk of change at 6/57. It sounds like somewhere near the 9 million mark (per year) is about what the Suns might expect to spend to extend Diaw. It would be nice if it would cost less, like 8-8.5 million per year.

 

[myrondizzo]

I'm wondering if the Suns will try to sign Diaw for 5 or 6 years? Al Harrington is still getting a good chunk of change at 6/57. It sounds like somewhere near the 9 million mark (per year) is about what the Suns might expect to spend to extend Diaw. It would be nice if it would cost less, like 8-8.5 million per year.

i think the max we can extend is 5 since he is still under contract next year.

 

[Mainstreet]

i think the max we can extend is 5 since he is still under contract next year.

Thanks. All I've seen is a 5 year contract being mentioned regarding Diaw. A 5/42 contract sounds sweet for both sides.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Thanks. All I've seen is a 5 year contract being mentioned regarding Diaw. A 5/42 contract sounds sweet for both sides.

Both sides, I don't think so. Phoenix management absolutely.

Pretty sure that Diaw could get 50 or more on the FA market.

 

[asudevil83]

i think the max we can extend is 5 since he is still under contract next year.

i thought he max was 5 years because of the new CBA. that's why amare was only extended 5 years

 

[Muggum]

The market is never about what a player 'deserves' or what another player got. It's about the most any team can afford to pay (and is willing to pay) a player within a certain window of time. Right now the only team allowed to talk to Boris is the Suns. Next summer it will be everyone. Boris can wait until next year, but there will only be so many teams with cap space in that window, and he won't be the only free agent available (next summer's crop is apparently pretty good).

In a best-case scenario, from the player's perspective, you find yourself courted by idiots with tons of cap space (Nene in Denver).

In a worst-case scenario, from the player's perspective, you find yourself courted by very few teams with flexibility, at a time when there are other attractive free agents available.

It's nowhere written in stone that Boris should be paid 6 million dollars a year or 11 million dollars a year. The NBA is a crazy, inefficient market. As the Suns saw last year, it only takes one other spend-thrifty buyer to woo away a top free agent. But if there are *no* other spend thrifty buyers, Boris might have to settle for a 'below market' contract.

My point is... there's really no such thing as 'below market.' The market is whatever the market is when Boris goes to make his deal. Nene got lucky. Dwight Gooden got unlucky. You can't justify the difference between Gooden and Nene's salaries (23 million vs. 60 million) based on talent. But them's the breaks.

 

[fordronken]

The big gamble with Diaw mostly has to do with which players opt out of their contracts next year and what other RFAs are available. If the Suns play the "there are gonna be a ton of good free agents and not enough teams" card, they could get burned if everybody stays with their own teams for another year and Boris becomes the lone big name on the market.

 

[George O'Brien]

It is a form of high stakes poker. If you are Boris, are you willing to bet that Charlotte, Orlando or Atlanta will go crazy? If you bet that way and win, you could be very very rich. If you bet wrong, then you may face having to take whatevery the Suns decide to offer. For example, it appears that Gooden and Wilcox have accepted much smaller deals than they wanted.

 

[goldseraph]

Oh man I am from Orlando, so I wouldn't mind seeing Diaw to the Magic.
3 D's would RULE the east! Dwight, Darko, DIAW!

 

[George O'Brien]

Except you'd find that Diaw is not really an SF.

In a way, Diaw reminds me of Billy Owens. Billy Owens was drafted out of Syracuse by the Kings and then traded to the Warriors for Mitch Richmond. They played him at PF along side Chris Webber and it is was a very effective combination as he averaged 15 ppg, 8.1 rpg, and 4.1 assists his last season with GS.

After he was traded, Owens never matched those stats and bounced around the league. Every coach who looked at him decided he should play SF and was never more than a "nice" player after that.

Most coaches sort players by size rather than by what they do. It takes a Mike D'Antoni or Don Nelson (who played Owens at PF) to see what could be done.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This should help in the Diaw negotiations.

BTW, the summer's of 2009 and 2010 are going to be doozies.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Dwight Gooden got unlucky.

I am sure you meant Drew Gooden and not Dwight, unless you were switching sports on us...

 

[F-Dog]

That deal sounds about right. Thankfully, the Nene insanity is fading into the past, replaced by sane deals.

First three years of Nene's contract: $26.5m

Frankly, I'd take him (and his contract) over Gooden or Wilcox any day.

Oh man I am from Orlando, so I wouldn't mind seeing Diaw to the Magic.

3 D's would RULE the east! Dwight, Darko, DIAW!

I tell you, everybody but the Suns sees Diaw as a SF.

 

[F-Dog]

This should help in the Diaw negotiations.

Since Diaw is competing against next year's free agents, not this year's, it shouldn't have any effect whatsoever.

Seattle will still have plenty of money to spend after Rashard Lewis opts out.

 

[George O'Brien]

I tell you, everybody but the Suns sees Diaw as a SF.

They look at his size and conclude he's a small forward. What they miss is:

He's quick for a PF but for an SF
He's a good outside shooter for a PF but not an SF
He has good range on his jump shot for a PF but not an SF
He's good at driving the basket for a PF but not an SF

He's a better passer than other SF's, but the difference is vastly greater when compared to PF's.

Boris has the length and quickness to play pretty good defense on the inside (he's not strong enough against many bigs, but makes up for it by being a matchup problem on the other end), but is not quick enough to be more than just a pretty good defender against SF's.

For Boris to be a star, he needs to be on a team that makes use of his unique talents. There aren't many teams like that.

 

[Errntknght]

George O, "For Boris to be a star, he needs to be on a team that makes use of his unique talents. There aren't many teams like that."

Where Boris falls behind other PFs is in rebounding so he needs to be paired with a SF who rebounds well or with a C who is a great rebounder. The average SF rebounds at a rate of .170 per min while PFs chip in at .242 - Boris goes at .194 so he's closer to a typical SF. Marion's rate is .293.

While I was looking this stuff up I noticed that Raja is a poor rebounder even for a SG - his rate is .085 while the average for SGs is .122. He plays about 20% of his time as SF. No wonder the Suns get killed on the boards when they go really small. I checked Nash, Barbosa and House - they're all better rebounders than Bell with rates .118, .094, and .093, respectively. The average for PGs is .097


"He's a better passer than other SF's, but the difference is vastly greater when compared to PF's."

SFs are not vastly better passers than PFs so the difference cannot be vastly greater. As measured by assist rate per min, SFs average .067 and PFs .053 while Boris gets .174.
In terms of differences its .121 vs .135, or about 12%.

 

[George O'Brien]

George O, "For Boris to be a star, he needs to be on a team that makes use of his unique talents. There aren't many teams like that."

Where Boris falls behind other PFs is in rebounding so he needs to be paired with a SF who rebounds well or with a C who is a great rebounder. The average SF rebounds at a rate of .170 per min while PFs chip in at .242 - Boris goes at .194 so he's closer to a typical SF. Marion's rate is .293.

As a general rule, PF's are in a better position to get rebounds than SF's because they are closer to the basket. This is part of what makes Marion's rebounding stats all the more remarkable.

I think Boris is going to work on becoming a better rebounder, but it may take time. Rebounding and the strength to defend the post are the two things he has to work to develop if he is going to be the Sun's long range answer as the inside mate to Amare. He's a great offensive complement, but I'm concerned about defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's a good outside shooter for a PF but not an SF
He has good range on his jump shot for a PF but not an SF

george, did you make this point twice, merely re-wording it, to make your argument seem more voluminous? curious.

 

[George O'Brien]

george, did you make this point twice, merely re-wording it, to make your argument seem more voluminous? curious.

Range and accuracy really are separate issues. Kurt Thomas is a very good mid range shooter, but does not have three point range. By contrast, Tim Thomas was as good shooting the three as in shooting mid shots, perhaps better. The impact on the offense was enormous.

For inside guys, the question of range beyond about 8 to 10 feet is not usually an issue. But SF's who lack accurate three point range permit defenders to play differently. Effective three point range pulls the defender out of the paint and opens a lot of things up.