Goran Dragic plans to test free agency; blames struggles on 3 PG system

[Mainstreet]

The way some go on and on and on about Dragic and his supposed fragile mental state around here I'm surprised he isn't out for the season with hurt feelings. Last summer it was Bledsoe hasn't said he loves us, this season it's Dragic and his fragile feelings. I feel like this board is full of 14 year old girls worrying about whether Johnny will break up with Lucy because she hasn't put out. Maybe we need to pass Goran a note:

You must be registered for see images attach

Did you write the note and how long have you had these feelings? I didn't know.

The trade deadline is nearing and possibly some big decisions need to be made by the trade deadline on Feb. 19th especially in regard to keeping Dragic.

 

[hcsilla]

 

[AzStevenCal]

The way some go on and on and on about Dragic and his supposed fragile mental state around here I'm surprised he isn't out for the season with hurt feelings. Last summer it was Bledsoe hasn't said he loves us, this season it's Dragic and his fragile feelings. I feel like this board is full of 14 year old girls worrying about whether Johnny will break up with Lucy because she hasn't put out. Maybe we need to pass Goran a note:

You must be registered for see images attach

LOL. Yeah, I'm not too worried about Goran.

Steve

 

[BC867]

How is reacting to an article written about Dragic, and his quotes online and in the newspaper TODAY, beating a dead horse?

Dragic's comments and going public again have taken the situation to another level. And those of us agreeing with his assessment are going to react to it.

 

[BC867]

I've sent Jeff an E-Mail. I mentioned that since our three combo guard lineup to close-out games has worked so well that maybe he should consider going with it for most of the game. The stats clearly show it's our best lineup and it makes sense to start off with your best. I signed it BC867.

Steve

LOL.

How about four or five? Then when they all get so frustrated and hit the bench with technicals, perhaps we'll field an NBA team instead of a bunch of sissies.

 

[AzStevenCal]

LOL.

How about four or five? Then when they all get so frustrated and hit the bench with technicals, perhaps we'll field an NBA team instead of a bunch of sissies.

Yeah but see, I solved one of your major concerns. And you're welcome. Remember how upset you've been with the fact that we keep some starters on the bench at the close of the game? Now, we'll just start our closers and keep you happy.

Steve

 

[overseascardfan]

I feel PHX needs to deal Dragic and get something for him as he will not re-sign with Bledsoe and Thomas on the roster. Dragic needs to play PG to be effective, PHX has 3 other PG's on the roster and Dragic is having difficulty dealing with larger SG's.

The problem is at this point, teams aren't going to give up much when they can just sign him as a FA. PHX's only hope is that a contender that needs a PG will offer up a decent package for him.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I feel PHX needs to deal Dragic and get something for him as he will not re-sign with Bledsoe and Thomas on the roster. Dragic needs to play PG to be effective, PHX has 3 other PG's on the roster and Dragic is having difficulty dealing with larger SG's.

The problem is at this point, teams aren't going to give up much when they can just sign him as a FA. PHX's only hope is that a contender that needs a PG will offer up a decent package for him.

He started the season poorly but I still think it was partially because he didn't have any time off. Of late though he's been playing very well and other than last night it wasn't too different than his better games last season. As for re-signing here, I think our front office has a grasp on whether he'll leave or stay and what that decision will hinge on. If they believe we have to move Thomas in order to keep him, I think they'll do that. I'm just not convinced that it will be necessary.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I feel PHX needs to deal Dragic and get something for him as he will not re-sign with Bledsoe and Thomas on the roster. Dragic needs to play PG to be effective, PHX has 3 other PG's on the roster and Dragic is having difficulty dealing with larger SG's.

The problem is at this point, teams aren't going to give up much when they can just sign him as a FA. PHX's only hope is that a contender that needs a PG will offer up a decent package for him.

We totally agree on this point. I do not think there should be any more pretending that Goran's position is SG. However, I do think Dragic has good market value right now.

 

[Phrazbit]

Goran is shooting over 50% from the field, in the month of December he averaged 20 a game. I don't see why thinking Goran can be effective as a SG is "pretending". He has been VERY effective while playing mostly that role for a season and a half now.

Could he personally put up better stats as a PG? Probably, but it does not make the team better, so who cares. All the belly aching over Dragic's stats when the team does better with him as a SG is baffling.

 

[hcsilla]

He started the season poorly but I still think it was partially because he didn't have any time off. Of late though he's been playing very well and other than last night it wasn't too different than his better games last season. As for re-signing here, I think our front office has a grasp on whether he'll leave or stay and what that decision will hinge on.

Am I the only one who thinks that Goran's extension has already kicked-in when the Suns signed Zoran?

I mean it's basically Goran's money but he gets it via his brother which is a cap-friendly move.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Am I the only one who thinks that Goran's extension has already kicked-in when the Suns signed Zoran?

I mean it's basically Goran's money but he gets it via his brother which is a cap-friendly move.

I don't think it's quite the same as it is with the twins but yeah, I do think we brought him over because of Goran. Maybe it's not enough to keep an unhappy Dragic in Phoenix but I don't believe he's unhappy. I watch his interviews and I watch his play and he seems very content with this team, our style of play, his role on the court and his teammates. If that changes I'm sure he'll make the front office aware and I'm confident we'll do what it takes to keep him here (within reason of course).

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Goran is shooting over 50% from the field, in the month of December he averaged 20 a game. I don't see why thinking Goran can be effective as a SG is "pretending". He has been VERY effective while playing mostly that role for a season and a half now.

Could he personally put up better stats as a PG? Probably, but it does not make the team better, so who cares. All the belly aching over Dragic's stats when the team does better with him as a SG is baffling.

I think Goran can play SG but the true position in which he can excel is PG. This is a testament to his talent that he can play both positions. My concern about Dragic being mismatched at SG is that I think he will look to go to a team in FA where he can he can play PG. I think Houston would love to have Dragic as their primary PG as well as many other teams.

 

[Mainstreet]

Am I the only one who thinks that Goran's extension has already kicked-in when the Suns signed Zoran?

I mean it's basically Goran's money but he gets it via his brother which is a cap-friendly move.

I think Goran will want a big payday in FA and rightfully so. Zoran will not be getting anywhere near the money Goran will make and I don't expect Goran to divide his salary up like the twins. The Suns offered an opportunity for Zoran to play in the NBA which hopefully pleased his brother, nothing more.

 

[BC867]

Goran is shooting over 50% from the field, in the month of December he averaged 20 a game. I don't see why thinking Goran can be effective as a SG is "pretending". He has been VERY effective while playing mostly that role for a season and a half now.

Could he personally put up better stats as a PG? Probably, but it does not make the team better, so who cares. All the belly aching over Dragic's stats when the team does better with him as a SG is baffling.

Is it only about individual stats? And offense?

In Goran's own words, "Most of these guys are bigger, stronger, taller than me."

Leaving his natural (and best -- 3rd Team NBA best) position to cover Small Forwards and Shooting Guards over an NBA season is wearing him down. Physically and emotionally.

How can you overlook that he has been speaking out about it? Regardless of what some fans think, what Goran feels is what matters.


If Goran is still with the team at the end of the season, we'll look at the Suns record over the 1st half and 2nd half. We'll see if the team does better with him as a SG during the second half of the season.

And, BTW, how can you refer to last season as the basis for this season when (a) Bledsoe missed half of it and (b) Thomas was not here? You're right. Goran came through, with honors . . . when he was our Point Guard. Our only lead Point Guard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Is it only about individual stats? And offense?

In Goran's own words, "Most of these guys are bigger, stronger, taller than me."

But you're the one turning a neutral statement into a negative. Yes they are bigger and stronger than Goran. But Goran is quicker than they are. Does he say how he feels about it? I haven't found any evidence of it and in interviews recently he's stated how much fun it is to play with these guards and how he's finally adjusted to his role.

Leaving his natural (and best -- 3rd Team NBA best) position to cover Small Forwards and Shooting Guards over an NBA season is wearing him down. Physically and emotionally.

Says you. If it's so natural how come he plays shooting guard for his national team. And again, that 3rd team nod was about his play as a guard not as a point guard. Even when Bledsoe went down he spent plenty of time as an off guard. How many times did we see him give the ball to Green and let Green run the offense. He averaged about 6 assists per game when he paired with Bledsoe and he continued to average 6 assists per game when Eric was injured. His game didn't change all that much with Eric gone except he had to score more.

How can you overlook that he has been speaking out about it? Regardless of what some fans think, what Goran feels is what matters.

How can you not understand that he's being asked specific questions and he's answering them. Watch the interviews. He appears regularly on the pre-game and post-game shows and you are presenting an entirely different picture of Dragic than he is presenting in his interviews.

If Goran is still with the team at the end of the season, we'll look at the Suns record over the 1st half and 2nd half. We'll see if the team does better with him as a SG during the second half of the season.

So you think it's a fair test to compare the first half of the season where we had the easiest schedule in the league to the second half of the season where the reverse is true? It's highly unlikely that we will do as well against the Warriors, Hawks, Spurs and Grizzlies as we've done against the Knicks, Wolves, Lakers and Celtics. We are a young team, a pretty decent team, an improving team but we are not a top 10 team. Putting Goran in at point guard isn't likely to change that.

And, BTW, how can you refer to last season as the basis for this season when (a) Bledsoe missed half of it and (b) Thomas was not here? You're right. Goran came through, with honors . . . when he was our Point Guard. Our only lead Point Guard.

Does our record matter? We were 45 - 66 over the previous 2 seasons when Goran was our lead guard. Last year, in the games that Dragic played without Bledsoe we went 20 - 19. You can reminisce about the good ol' days when Goran was a 3rd team All NBA player but the best of those good ol' days came with him playing a lot of minutes off the ball.

Steve

 

[KloD]

But you're the one turning a neutral statement into a negative. Yes they are bigger and stronger than Goran. But Goran is quicker than they are. Does he say how he feels about it? I haven't found any evidence of it and in interviews recently he's stated how much fun it is to play with these guards and how he's finally adjusted to his role.



Says you. If it's so natural how come he plays shooting guard for his national team. And again, that 3rd team nod was about his play as a guard not as a point guard. Even when Bledsoe went down he spent plenty of time as an off guard. How many times did we see him give the ball to Green and let Green run the offense. He averaged about 6 assists per game when he paired with Bledsoe and he continued to average 6 assists per game when Eric was injured. His game didn't change all that much with Eric gone except he had to score more.



How can you not understand that he's being asked specific questions and he's answering them. Watch the interviews. He appears regularly on the pre-game and post-game shows and you are presenting an entirely different picture of Dragic than he is presenting in his interviews.



So you think it's a fair test to compare the first half of the season where we had the easiest schedule in the league to the second half of the season where the reverse is true? It's highly unlikely that we will do as well against the Warriors, Hawks, Spurs and Grizzlies as we've done against the Knicks, Wolves, Lakers and Celtics. We are a young team, a pretty decent team, an improving team but we are not a top 10 team. Putting Goran in at point guard isn't likely to change that.



Does our record matter? We were 45 - 66 over the previous 2 seasons when Goran was our lead guard. Last year, in the games that Dragic played without Bledsoe we went 20 - 19. You can reminisce about the good ol' days when Goran was a 3rd team All NBA player but the best of those good ol' days came with him playing a lot of minutes off the ball.

Steve

I get a kick out of the "but he's too small to guard the SG position" complaint. Perhaps, but he's also too slow to guard many of the leagues PG's. Tucker is too small to guard many SF/PF too, but he does a great job many nights doing just that. Heck, our coach is the same size as Goran and he had a heck of a career playing off the ball.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think Goran can play SG but the true position in which he can excel is PG. This is a testament to his talent that he can play both positions. My concern about Dragic being mismatched at SG is that I think he will look to go to a team in FA where he can he can play PG. I think Houston would love to have Dragic as their primary PG as well as many other teams.

Ultimately this is what will happen. In an article today, Dragic said that Suns won't have an advantage over other teams, every NBA team will have an equal opportunity to sign him.

"I feel like home is Phoenix. They give me everything. They bring me into the league. I have a lot of friends here, a lot of family. But that doesn’t mean anything, because I need to look at my career. We’ll see what is going to happen.”

http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterocke...-have-equal-chance-in-free-agency/#29531101=0

Most players who want to stay will say something along the lines of "My preference is to stay here but I understand this is s business" or something along those lines.

Btw I think when speaking of last year and how Dragic played 2 guard next to Bledsoe, it's important to note one thing: even when Bledsoe was healthy, Dragic still ran the point ALOT when Bledsoe was resting. Remember the rule that at least one of Bledsoe or Dragic have to be on the court?

This allowed both Dragic and Bledsoe to have their turns running the offense even though Bledsoe probably ran it a majority of the time.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Btw I think when speaking of last year and how Dragic played 2 guard next to Bledsoe, it's important to note one thing: even when Bledsoe was healthy, Dragic still ran the point ALOT when Bledsoe was resting. Remember the rule that at least one of Bledsoe or Dragic have to be on the court?

This allowed both Dragic and Bledsoe to have their turns running the offense even though Bledsoe probably ran it a majority of the time.

I don't know if Bledsoe ran it the majority of the time (not disagreeing, just don't know) but I agree with the rest of this. But I don't think we can go back there. Frye was a very important player in the success of the two combo guard lineup and he played a pivotal role in the pick and roll/pop with Goran. He's gone and so is the spacing that made that combo so successful.

Thomas adds a lot to this team despite the fact he takes away from both Eric and Goran's individual numbers. He's one of the tools available to Jeff when the other team is collapsing and daring us to take the 3. If we want to go back to last year's best run I think we have to move Thomas for a real stretch 4 and I don't see any that would fit us that's available.

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

Is it only about individual stats? And offense?

In Goran's own words, "Most of these guys are bigger, stronger, taller than me."

Leaving his natural (and best -- 3rd Team NBA best) position to cover Small Forwards and Shooting Guards over an NBA season is wearing him down. Physically and emotionally.

How can you overlook that he has been speaking out about it? Regardless of what some fans think, what Goran feels is what matters.


If Goran is still with the team at the end of the season, we'll look at the Suns record over the 1st half and 2nd half. We'll see if the team does better with him as a SG during the second half of the season.

And, BTW, how can you refer to last season as the basis for this season when (a) Bledsoe missed half of it and (b) Thomas was not here? You're right. Goran came through, with honors . . . when he was our Point Guard. Our only lead Point Guard.

Steve's response hits on most of the points I would, but I will reiterate a few.

No, its not just about stats, whats most important is team success, but the people who keep making this argument about Goran as the "lead guard" seem to ONLY care about stats... and Goran's stats specifically. I conceded, Goran put up better stats as a solo PG than as a SG, but when Goran is a SG the TEAM is better. As for the defensive side, lets not pretend Goran is any better at covering PGs than SGs... he isn't. The Suns were putrid defensively with Goran as the "lead guard".

You also need to accept that Goran was not awarded 3rd team all-NBA because of what he did for a while with Goran out and he was not given the award specifically as a point guard. He was given it for what he did over the course of the year... a year in which he was a combo guard.

All of this hand wringing over Goran's positioning I think would baffle most neutral observers. The guy is not a facilitator, he never has been. He is a scoring guard.

As for our record over this next half of season, why should it trump our current record, which also came with Goran at SG? When wins and losses come into this argument IMO the argument ends. Its night and day, the Suns have not only been better with Goran at SG over the last season and a half but way better.

In the end my preference is to keep Goran and Bledsoe, they play very well together. If we could pair them with a solid front court then I think we'd have a really strong team, but if the only way to keep Goran is to toss him a huge contract and guarantee him the PG position then 'adios Goran'.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't know if Bledsoe ran it the majority of the time (not disagreeing, just don't know) but I agree with the rest of this. But I don't think we can go back there. Frye was a very important player in the success of the two combo guard lineup and he played a pivotal role in the pick and roll/pop with Goran. He's gone and so is the spacing that made that combo so successful.

Thomas adds a lot to this team despite the fact he takes away from both Eric and Goran's individual numbers. He's one of the tools available to Jeff when the other team is collapsing and daring us to take the 3. If we want to go back to last year's best run I think we have to move Thomas for a real stretch 4 and I don't see any that would fit us that's available.

Steve

I'm on the fence about it. I don't like the 3 PG lineup but one thing I hated about the 2 PGl ineup from lats year was that if Bledsoe or Dragic had a bad game, there was zero chance we would win the game. We probably got blown in those games.

Now with IT, we have still won plenty in games in which one of the 3 PGs sucked.

I don't think its black and white like the way I just put it though. There are tons and tons of variables into looking at the pros and cons of this. If I got paid for it, I'd probably do a research and be able to find out if in the last 30 years, how many PGs were able to play on one team, how the defensive numbers when one of them was on the court, how the defensive numbers were when two of them were on the court, how it affects the assists, how it affects ball movement, how it affects rebounding, how it affects shooting, if the team is better off with 1, 2 or 3 PGs etc.

Looking at it from an outside perspective, it would be nice if we had a normal team with a true PG at the 1, true SG at the 2, etc with players that are reliable night in and night out but I'm not sure we do.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm on the fence about it. I don't like the 3 PG lineup but one thing I hated about the 2 PGl ineup from lats year was that if Bledsoe or Dragic had a bad game, there was zero chance we would win the game. We probably got blown in those games.

Now with IT, we have still won plenty in games in which one of the 3 PGs sucked.

I don't think its black and white like the way I just put it though. There are tons and tons of variables into looking at the pros and cons of this. If I got paid for it, I'd probably do a research and be able to find out if in the last 30 years, how many PGs were able to play on one team, how the defensive numbers when one of them was on the court, how the defensive numbers were when two of them were on the court, how it affects the assists, how it affects ball movement, how it affects rebounding, how it affects shooting, if the team is better off with 1, 2 or 3 PGs etc.

Looking at it from an outside perspective, it would be nice if we had a normal team with a true PG at the 1, true SG at the 2, etc with players that are reliable night in and night out but I'm not sure we do.

It wouldn't do you any good. The rules changes have made it more of a guards league. That's not to say you don't win with bigs but 20 years ago it was all about the forwards and the centers and now that just isn't the case. 15 years ago being a scoring point guard usually meant you weren't capable of doing your job correctly. Now, most of the better point guards are really scoring guards.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

it would be nice if we had a normal team with a true PG at the 1, true SG at the 2, etc with players that are reliable night in and night out but I'm not sure we do.

Like Lebron?

Steve's right, its a guards league. The 2 MVP candidates everybody is talking about are Beard and Curry. IMO the Suns had a lot to do with this. The success the Suns had last year definitely contributed to the current model. Its a lot easier to find good guards and build a system around them than it is to find a Duncan, KD or Lebron.

Every game lately they keep stating how the Suns are undefeated when all 3 PGs score 15 or more. That's because those are our 3 key players. When any one of them has an off night we struggle.

The Suns aren't in the middle of the pack because they have a bad system. They're in the middle of the pack because that's the level of their talent. Every player on the team has shortcomings. Bledsoe is playing great but he really struggles to finish at the rim. Dragic still has nights when he disappears. IT...

How many teams have won 50-55 games without a single All Star?

 

[overseascardfan]

PHX's big need is rebounding and better post defense. They have enough scoring punch with Dragic, Bledsoe, Markieff, Thomas & Green. They need a rebounding PF who is plays decent defense to team up with Len.

There are plenty of rebounders to go after:
Monroe
Thompson
Faried
Hill
Davis

I'm sure Dragic could net one of these players, particularly Hill or Davis or maybe both. Jordan Hill would make a nice pairing with Len as Hill is more suited to play PF. I like the potential of Ed Davis if he is given the chance to start, same thing with Thompson. Again, I truly believe Dragic is gone after this year unless PHX is going to deal IT but I actually like Thomas backing up Bledsoe as he provides an above average back up PG on a great contract. Dragic is going to look for a max deal, I would prefer to offer a max to a star PF after this year, maybe Love if he doesn't stay in CLE. PHX could also go after a true SG like Wesley Matthews who is a FA this year and one hell of a player. So PHX needs to get something for him rather than let him go for nothing. Hill or Davis can become FA's at the end of this year or play out their last year at a reasonable price, Davis is going to make $4.5M next year and Hill $9M if he doesn't opt out of his deal so PHX can maintain cap flexibility to go after FA's this summer.

 

[sunsfan88]

Like Lebron?

Steve's right, its a guards league. The 2 MVP candidates everybody is talking about are Beard and Curry. IMO the Suns had a lot to do with this. The success the Suns had last year definitely contributed to the current model. Its a lot easier to find good guards and build a system around them than it is to find a Duncan, KD or Lebron.

Every game lately they keep stating how the Suns are undefeated when all 3 PGs score 15 or more. That's because those are our 3 key players. When any one of them has an off night we struggle.

The Suns aren't in the middle of the pack because they have a bad system. They're in the middle of the pack because that's the level of their talent. Every player on the team has shortcomings. Bledsoe is playing great but he really struggles to finish at the rim. Dragic still has nights when he disappears. IT...

How many teams have won 50-55 games without a single All Star?

Even though Horford is a former All Star, Atlanta is doing it right now with him not even being their best or 2nd best player.

Their the team everyone is amazed with because they don't have a single player who anyone would consider a superstar and their still doing it big...with the coach that I wanted the Suns to hire....sigh.

Edit: Also I dont believe that there's not good enough forwards in the NBA. Other than LeBron and KD, there's still guys like Tobias Harris, Giannis A, Gordon Hayward, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard, Paul George etc.