Got into an argument with Kurt Warner tonight...

[dreamcastrocks]

Give lots of credit to the man for debating me, but really sick of him not giving the organization any credit for good moves they made. Either way he kept his cool and let me vent some of mine. He's my favorite QB of all time, but his opinion stinks lol.

I would be sure to thank him in a tweet for debating with you. Very cool that he even did that.

 

[CtCardinals78]

No doubt keeping a solid core is important, but we sometimes forget the tremendous amount of turnover throughout the league from year to year. I heard, believe correctly, that there were only 13 Giants and Pats players who had faced each other in their last SB encounter. If that be the case that would a relatively 87% turnover in 3 seasons or so.

No doubt but the Cards had a young team when they went just four years ago and only have five starters left and three of those are what would be considered "core" players.

 

[Reddog]

No kidding I like Kurt a great deal but what the hell he clearly used SF to get more out of us.

He was worth every penny of it especially when you consider what we are paying Kolb. Why all the Kurt hate? If he was so money hungry why did he walk from the second year of that contract and leave $11m on the table.

 

[Cheesebeef]

30 million under the cap in 2010.

I agree with Warner.

8 million under the cap again this year... the idea that Fitz would have walked if we signed those guys because we wouldn't have cap room is ludicrous.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

He was worth every penny of it especially when you consider what we are paying Kolb. Why all the Kurt hate? If he was so money hungry why did he walk from the second year of that contract and leave $11m on the table.

Because of the appearance of the double standard he is showing. Yes, he was worth the extra money that was spent on him.

Why can't we be critical of his words, all the while being thankful for his actions on the field?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

8 million under the cap again this year... the idea that Fitz would have walked if we signed those guys because we wouldn't have cap room is ludicrous.

Walked, probably not. Definitely would have made it more difficult to sign. It's not like Graves is a wizard with contracts....

 

[Linderbee]

He was worth every penny of it especially when you consider what we are paying Kolb. Why all the Kurt hate? If he was so money hungry why did he walk from the second year of that contract and leave $11m on the table.

Because he didn't want to DIE, and not be able to enjoy ANY of his money...

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Because he didn't want to DIE, and not be able to enjoy ANY of his money...

You must be registered for see images attach

Love the Levi pic.

 

[Linderbee]

Love the Levi pic.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

No doubt but the Cards had a young team when they went just four years ago and only have five starters left and three of those are what would be considered "core" players.

2008 roster:

They weren't that young, and with few exceptions there isn't much to miss from that team. With improved QB play the present lineup can certainly match the 9-7 and 10-6 years under Warner. Playoffs? Well, that's left to seen.

Head Coach: Ken Whisenhunt

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Born Exp College

1 Neil Rackers K 6-1 202 08-16-1976 9 Illinois

2 Brian St. Pierre QB 6-3 230 11-28-1979 6 Boston College

7 Matt Leinart QB 6-5 232 05-11-1983 3 USC

9 Dirk Johnson P 6-0 210 06-01-1975 6 Northern Colorado

11 Larry Fitzgerald WR 6-3 220 08-31-1983 5 Pittsburgh

13 Kurt Warner QB 6-2 218 06-22-1971 11 Northern Iowa

15 Steve Breaston WR 6-0 189 08-20-1983 2 Michigan

20 Ralph Brown CB 5-10 185 09-16-1978 9 Nebraska

21 Antrel Rolle CB 6-0 208 12-16-1982 4 Miami (FL)

22 Matt Ware CB 6-2 214 12-02-1982 5 UCLA

24 Adrian Wilson S 6-3 230 10-12-1979 8 North Carolina State

25 Eric Green CB 5-11 194 03-16-1982 4 Virginia Tech

26 Roderick Hood CB 5-11 198 10-03-1981 6 Auburn

28 J.J. Arrington RB 5-9 212 01-23-1983 4 California

29 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB 6-2 185 04-07-1986 0 Tennessee State

32 Edgerrin James RB 6-0 220 08-01-1978 10 Miami (FL)

34 Tim Hightower RB 6-0 216 05-23-1986 0 Richmond

35 Oliver Celestin S 6-0 207 02-25-1981 5 Texas Southern

45 Terrelle Smith RB 6-0 250 03-12-1978 9 Arizona State

46 Tim Castille RB 5-11 242 05-29-1984 2 Alabama

47 Aaron Francisco S 6-2 207 07-05-1983 4 Brigham Young

48 Nathan Hodel TE 6-2 238 11-12-1977 7 Illinois

50 Al Johnson C 6-5 305 01-27-1979 6 Wisconsin

52 Monty Beisel LB 6-3 244 08-20-1978 8 Kansas State

53 Clark Haggans LB 6-4 243 01-10-1977 9 Colorado State

54 Gerald Hayes LB 6-1 249 10-10-1980 6 Pittsburgh

55 Travis LaBoy DE 6-3 250 08-20-1981 5 Hawaii

56 Chike Okeafor DE 6-5 247 03-27-1976 9 Purdue

58 Karlos Dansby LB 6-4 250 11-03-1981 5 Auburn

61 Elton Brown G 6-5 332 05-22-1982 4 Virginia

63 Lyle Sendlein C 6-4 300 03-16-1984 2 Texas

64 x-Scott Peters C 6-3 312 11-23-1978 3 Arizona State

68 Elliot Vallejo T 6-7 312 05-17-1984 1 California-Davis

69 Mike Gandy T 6-4 308 01-03-1979 8 Notre Dame

72 Brandon Keith T 6-5 343 11-21-1984 0 Northern Iowa

74 Reggie Wells G 6-4 308 11-03-1980 6 Clarion

75 Levi Brown T 6-5 322 03-16-1984 2 Penn State

76 Deuce Lutui G 6-4 332 05-05-1983 3 USC

78 Alan Branch DT 6-5 331 12-29-1984 2 Michigan

80 Early Doucet WR 6-0 210 10-28-1985 0 LSU

81 Anquan Boldin WR 6-1 217 10-03-1980 6 Florida State

82 Leonard Pope TE 6-8 258 09-10-1983 3 Georgia

84 Jerame Tuman TE 6-4 253 03-24-1976 10 Michigan

85 Jerheme Urban WR 6-3 207 11-26-1980 5 Trinity (TX)

87 Sean Morey WR 5-11 193 02-26-1976 7 Brown

89 Ben Patrick TE 6-3 260 08-23-1984 2 Delaware

90 Darnell Dockett DT 6-4 285 05-27-1981 5 Florida State

91 Kenny Iwebema DE 6-4 274 02-06-1985 0 Iowa

92 Bertrand Berry DE 6-3 260 08-15-1975 11 Notre Dame

93 Calais Campbell DE 6-7 280 09-01-1986 0 Miami (FL)

94 Antonio Smith DE 6-4 285 10-21-1981 5 Oklahoma State

95 Ali Highsmith LB 6-1 223 01-20-1985 0 LSU

97 Bryan Robinson DE 6-4 304 06-22-1974 12 Fresno State

98 Gabe Watson DT 6-3 332 09-24-1983 3 Michigan

 

[wa52lz]

+2.

+3, So many like to bring up the 30 million under the cap, but no one ever mentions the Rule of 8 or gives examples of who we should have spent the money on.

 

[CtCardinals78]

2008 roster:

They weren't that young, and with few exceptions there isn't much to miss from that team. With improved QB play the present lineup can certainly match the 9-7 and 10-6 years under Warner. Playoffs? Well, that's left to seen.

Head Coach: Ken Whisenhunt

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Born Exp College

1 Neil Rackers K 6-1 202 08-16-1976 9 Illinois

2 Brian St. Pierre QB 6-3 230 11-28-1979 6 Boston College

7 Matt Leinart QB 6-5 232 05-11-1983 3 USC

9 Dirk Johnson P 6-0 210 06-01-1975 6 Northern Colorado

11 Larry Fitzgerald WR 6-3 220 08-31-1983 5 Pittsburgh

13 Kurt Warner QB 6-2 218 06-22-1971 11 Northern Iowa

15 Steve Breaston WR 6-0 189 08-20-1983 2 Michigan

20 Ralph Brown CB 5-10 185 09-16-1978 9 Nebraska

21 Antrel Rolle CB 6-0 208 12-16-1982 4 Miami (FL)

22 Matt Ware CB 6-2 214 12-02-1982 5 UCLA

24 Adrian Wilson S 6-3 230 10-12-1979 8 North Carolina State

25 Eric Green CB 5-11 194 03-16-1982 4 Virginia Tech

26 Roderick Hood CB 5-11 198 10-03-1981 6 Auburn

28 J.J. Arrington RB 5-9 212 01-23-1983 4 California

29 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB 6-2 185 04-07-1986 0 Tennessee State

32 Edgerrin James RB 6-0 220 08-01-1978 10 Miami (FL)

34 Tim Hightower RB 6-0 216 05-23-1986 0 Richmond

35 Oliver Celestin S 6-0 207 02-25-1981 5 Texas Southern

45 Terrelle Smith RB 6-0 250 03-12-1978 9 Arizona State

46 Tim Castille RB 5-11 242 05-29-1984 2 Alabama

47 Aaron Francisco S 6-2 207 07-05-1983 4 Brigham Young

48 Nathan Hodel TE 6-2 238 11-12-1977 7 Illinois

50 Al Johnson C 6-5 305 01-27-1979 6 Wisconsin

52 Monty Beisel LB 6-3 244 08-20-1978 8 Kansas State

53 Clark Haggans LB 6-4 243 01-10-1977 9 Colorado State

54 Gerald Hayes LB 6-1 249 10-10-1980 6 Pittsburgh

55 Travis LaBoy DE 6-3 250 08-20-1981 5 Hawaii

56 Chike Okeafor DE 6-5 247 03-27-1976 9 Purdue

58 Karlos Dansby LB 6-4 250 11-03-1981 5 Auburn

61 Elton Brown G 6-5 332 05-22-1982 4 Virginia

63 Lyle Sendlein C 6-4 300 03-16-1984 2 Texas

64 x-Scott Peters C 6-3 312 11-23-1978 3 Arizona State

68 Elliot Vallejo T 6-7 312 05-17-1984 1 California-Davis

69 Mike Gandy T 6-4 308 01-03-1979 8 Notre Dame

72 Brandon Keith T 6-5 343 11-21-1984 0 Northern Iowa

74 Reggie Wells G 6-4 308 11-03-1980 6 Clarion

75 Levi Brown T 6-5 322 03-16-1984 2 Penn State

76 Deuce Lutui G 6-4 332 05-05-1983 3 USC

78 Alan Branch DT 6-5 331 12-29-1984 2 Michigan

80 Early Doucet WR 6-0 210 10-28-1985 0 LSU

81 Anquan Boldin WR 6-1 217 10-03-1980 6 Florida State

82 Leonard Pope TE 6-8 258 09-10-1983 3 Georgia

84 Jerame Tuman TE 6-4 253 03-24-1976 10 Michigan

85 Jerheme Urban WR 6-3 207 11-26-1980 5 Trinity (TX)

87 Sean Morey WR 5-11 193 02-26-1976 7 Brown

89 Ben Patrick TE 6-3 260 08-23-1984 2 Delaware

90 Darnell Dockett DT 6-4 285 05-27-1981 5 Florida State

91 Kenny Iwebema DE 6-4 274 02-06-1985 0 Iowa

92 Bertrand Berry DE 6-3 260 08-15-1975 11 Notre Dame

93 Calais Campbell DE 6-7 280 09-01-1986 0 Miami (FL)

94 Antonio Smith DE 6-4 285 10-21-1981 5 Oklahoma State

95 Ali Highsmith LB 6-1 223 01-20-1985 0 LSU

97 Bryan Robinson DE 6-4 304 06-22-1974 12 Fresno State

98 Gabe Watson DT 6-3 332 09-24-1983 3 Michigan

Look obviously we disagree on this. Gandy retired and he was a big reason why the Oline played better down the stretch, but replacing him with Levi Brown? Come on. Rolle's loss was negated by Rhodes. Losing DRC hurt, losing Hghtower hurt, losing Dansby hurt, losing Q hurt, losing Breaston hurt, and with the exception of Hightower I don't know how you make the arggument this team is better without those guys. The Cardinals SUCK at keeping guys. They are horrible at it and the fact they can't get one freaking contract done with Campbell is the absolute proof that they are.

 

[Russ Smith]

He was worth every penny of it especially when you consider what we are paying Kolb. Why all the Kurt hate? If he was so money hungry why did he walk from the second year of that contract and leave $11m on the table.

It's not hate and I have to say I really get tired of people throwing that word around like it doesn't mean anything.

Kurt said in this twitter encounter that Fitz would have had to take less money like the rest of us, when in reality in that situation Kurt did NOT take less money, in fact he used our division rival as leverage to up the money he got. That's completely normal in pro sports, he was near the end of his career and trying to get one more big payday, and he was great for us. But he did NOT do himself what he was saying Larry should have and like it or not that is hypocritical.

It is NOT hate to point that out and I'm glad the OP did so.

Same problem I had with Jake saying I'd gladly renegotiate my contract to give us some more caproom to sign FA's. It was HIS contract that caused us to lose our own guys, they all wanted bonuses like his, and all he was offering to do was reduce his CAP hit, in exchange for another bonus that he'd get all at once but that would be spread out over several years for cap purposes. He wasn't offering to take less money he was going to get MORE, just structured differently.

It bugs me when players say one thing and do another.

The whole LeBron thing irritated me to no end but in the end those guys actually left money on the table to allow their team to sign other players. Durant did it, Westbrook did it, Kevin Love just did it. Those guys have a right to say what Kurt said, but he doesn't because in that same situation he didn't do that, he used every angle he could to get more money.

 

[wa52lz]

The 2010 offseason and time immediately preceding was horribly mismanaged in my opinion. To this day the team has not come close to 'replacing' Anquan Boldin or Kurt Warner or even Steve Breaston for that matter.

Last year's draft was a good one in my opinion, but the franchise needs to be able to retain good talent like Boldin, Karlos Dansby and Calais Campbell. Solid core players are essential.

As for Warner, he 'took' 11.5 million instead of the 14-million he was offered by S.F. That is taking less to keep a team together instead of going for every last nickle. Is it his fault the franchise tried to low-ball him after the Super Bowl run?

There was no $14 million dollar offer from the 49ers
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/03/SP07168CEK.DTL

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Look obviously we disagree on this. Gandy retired and he was a big reason why the Oline played better down the stretch. Rolle's loss was negated by Rhodes. Losing DRC hurt, losing Hghtower hurt, losing Dansby hurt, losing Q hurt, losing Breaston hurt, and with the exception of Hightower I don't know how you make the arggument this team is better without those guys. The Cardinals SUCK at keeping guys. They ate horrible at it and the fact they can't get one freaking contract done with Campbell is the absolute proof that they are.

DRC, his last here, was terrible. We're well rid of his "business decision" approach to tackling. He's now a nickle back in Philly.

Losing Hightower only hurt after our second round pick went down, and we still had a 1000 yard rusher. And we added backup D-line strength with that transaction with a pick to come.

The day Pace signed his deal with the NY Jets, keeping Dansby was problematic. The team franchised him twice and made a competitive offer. He wanted out. We now have D-Wash and with each outing more of us are forgetting the loss of Dansby.

"Q" wanted number one $$$. Understandable, but, in AZ he was a number 2. That trade got us picks that allowed us to replace Rolle with Rhodes and move up in the draft and pick D-Wash.

I like Breaston, but, he was not a classic number 2 (IMO). In his last year, he was dinged and many thought that his knee was going to be a problem. Haley got him a big payday in KC, but there is nothing special about his numbers. A combination of Doucet / Roberts or Roberts and ???, adequately replaces him.

Contracts with Wilson, Dockett, Fitz say that the FO aren't as bad as you say, and CC is left to be seen. For one, I wouldn't be particularly bothered if they go the Franchise route with him this year, as the CAP and revenues from the new TV deal will make him and others more affordable in the not too distant.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I don't know how you make the arggument this team is better without those guys.

I dunno. I don't see how you can say this team would have been better than the 8-8 record we posted.

Our running game was better without Hightower. Even though I did not like the DRC/Kolb trade, Peterson filled in quite nicely. Same with Washington for Dansby. No doubt losing Gandy was the worst loss of the group though.

The Cardinals SUCK at keeping guys. They are horrible at it and the fact they can't get one freaking contract done with Campbell is the absolute proof that they are.

This cannot be argued nor disputed.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I dunno. I don't see how you can say this team would have been better than the 8-8 record we posted.

Our running game was better without Hightower. Even though I did not like the DRC/Kolb trade, Peterson filled in quite nicely. Same with Washington for Dansby. No doubt losing Gandy was the worst loss of the group though.



This cannot be argued nor disputed.

Of course it can.

Get K-9 on it. He'll argue one side one week and then the other. By the third week, he'll be arguing with himself and quoting his former posts in support of whatever he fancies at that moment.

 

[MoeIsBetter]

Getting upset with them for not signing CC is not fair. Everything I've heard is that the Cardinals are open to giving him a big pay deal and the negotiating table is set with what we gave Dockett. CC is waiting to see what other guys resign for so that he can make a better judge on what he should be getting. If the Cardinals feel that number is too high this year, they will franchise him and wait for the TV revenue to kick in. Either way, CC is going to stay.

 

[Chopper0080]

Getting upset with them for not signing CC is not fair. Everything I've heard is that the Cardinals are open to giving him a big pay deal and the negotiating table is set with what we gave Dockett. CC is waiting to see what other guys resign for so that he can make a better judge on what he should be getting. If the Cardinals feel that number is too high this year, they will franchise him and wait for the TV revenue to kick in. Either way, CC is going to stay.

Curious as to where you heard this...

 

[BigRedRage]

I heard the AZ is expected to pay dockett money to him but not the rest and i read everything...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Curious as to where you heard this...

Me 2. Campbell is going to get WAY more than Dockett got in the open market if he tests it.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Look obviously we disagree on this. Gandy retired and he was a big reason why the Oline played better down the stretch, but replacing him with Levi Brown? Come on. Rolle's loss was negated by Rhodes. Losing DRC hurt, losing Hghtower hurt, losing Dansby hurt, losing Q hurt, losing Breaston hurt, and with the exception of Hightower I don't know how you make the arggument this team is better without those guys. The Cardinals SUCK at keeping guys. They are horrible at it and the fact they can't get one freaking contract done with Campbell is the absolute proof that they are.

Agreed.

These posts that state that we didn't need this guy or didn't need that guy. Seriously ?

Fine. I'll bite.

Great so for the next couple of decades we can continue to replace OLB, CB, ILB, NT, DE, OT, RB, WR every single year.

We will keep putting the Paris Lenon's of the world in the other positions than never get any attention because we are constantly needing to replace players after their first contract.

Cause there is no way if we kept a player or two we may have improved some positions in other areas.

But, no, really no, letting Dansby go was a great idea, it is not like we have been looking for a ILB since he left. Funny the same people who say re-signing Dansby would have cost too much, now complain about overpaying Stewart Bradley. So, the Cardinals pay Bradley instead of Dansby ? Come on!

Same with Boldin, that ball of trouble was so easily replaced by Stever Breaston, I mean Early Doucet, I mean Andre Roberts.

And it just goes on, and on, and on........

People keep bringing up 30 milliion in cap room because it was the BS reason why we didn't sign this player, or re-sign that player.

30 MILLION UNDER THE CAP AND PEOPLE ARE SAYING WE CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY PLAYERS ?!?!??!!? Just think about it for more than 30 seconds, and it will start to make sense.

It is like if I found $4,000.00 on the street, and told my wife she can't get a 0.50 candy bar, because it won't allow us to buy a $20 toaster. Come on! Basic math and logic here.

But, if people want to support the re-filling of the SAME position every 3 years no matter how good the player who the Cardinals let go was that is fine.

But, you could at least respect the opinion of the people that would want there team to be competitive in the offseason so they are competitive in the regular season.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Me 2. Campbell is going to get WAY more than Dockett got in the open market if he tests it.

Agreed, and this should be common knowledge. The Cardinals are trying to be cute, and they are common off naive and ignorant.

It is going to cost a good amount of money to re-sign Campbell. That is the way it goes.

The Cardinals can let him go, and that is their decision. But, when they wonder why the team sucks, and why they have to buy _0,000 tickets a game to pretend it is a sellout, there is the reason. Cheap, cheap, cheap.

Franchising is delaying the inveitable as well. Campbell won games for this team last year. Blocked field goals, big time plays in big time situations, he is the player I expected to see the year before.

On a team where the offensive looks like a sick water buffalo with three broken legs trying to cross a river, you would think our organization would be smart enough to lock up a key peice the to defense that was winning games for this organization last season.

Just amazing the ridiculousness of it all sometimes.

Trying play the excuses games that many are playing with Dansby, Boldin, and the rest of the talent that left AZ, with Campbell. You can't. He is too good, and too young. There is no reason not to re-sign him thus waiting to do so shows incompetence. The fanbase is used to it. But it is the reason why people scoff and laugh at this organization. It is the reason free agents don't want to come here, players don't want to stay here, and why this organization STILL has a bad reputation in the league.

What makes it worse, is that you can find a post like this every year for the last 2 1/2 decades. Same ol' Cardinals.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Agreed.

These posts that state that we didn't need this guy or didn't need that guy. Seriously ?

Fine. I'll bite.

Great so for the next couple of decades we can continue to replace OLB, CB, ILB, NT, DE, OT, RB, WR every single year.

We will keep putting the Paris Lenon's of the world in the other positions than never get any attention because we are constantly needing to replace players after their first contract.

Cause there is no way if we kept a player or two we may have improved some positions in other areas.

But, no, really no, letting Dansby go was a great idea, it is not like we have been looking for a ILB since he left. Funny the same people who say re-signing Dansby would have cost too much, now complain about overpaying Stewart Bradley. So, the Cardinals pay Bradley instead of Dansby ? Come on!

Same with Boldin, that ball of trouble was so easily replaced by Stever Breaston, I mean Early Doucet, I mean Andre Roberts.

And it just goes on, and on, and on........

People keep bringing up 30 milliion in cap room because it was the BS reason why we didn't sign this player, or re-sign that player.

30 MILLION UNDER THE CAP AND PEOPLE ARE SAYING WE CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY PLAYERS ?!?!??!!? Just think about it for more than 30 seconds, and it will start to make sense.

It is like if I found $4,000.00 on the street, and told my wife she can't get a 0.50 candy bar, because it won't allow us to buy a $20 toaster. Come on! Basic math and logic here.

But, if people want to support the re-filling of the SAME position every 3 years no matter how good the player who the Cardinals let go was that is fine.

But, you could at least respect the opinion of the people that would want there team to be competitive in the offseason so they are competitive in the regular season.

Who ever suggested that being $30M under the CAP prevented the Cards from signing players?

The Bidwill's and half the league saved $$$ in 2010 because they feared a lengthly lockout in 2011, and that $30M was hardly the highest saved.

They made a prudent business decision and, frankly, this really is yesteryear's news.

Let's try to make judgements on how they handle things going forward with a long term labour agreement and sizable $$$ from the new TV contract in the not too distant.

 

[TJ]

Of course it can.

Get K-9 on it. He'll argue one side one week and then the other. By the third week, he'll be arguing with himself and quoting his former posts in support of whatever he fancies at that moment.