Grant Amar'e his Wish

[Quagmire]

He wants to be the unquestionable leader of this team. He's seen what the Heat have done around Wade and Cavs around LBJ. If you remove Nash and Shaq and put the "C" on his jersery then the success/failure of this team rests on his shoulders, no excuses.

Amar'e has one more year and can then opt out, so this can be as small as a one year experiment. With no pick next year, this is the best one year reload plan I can come up with...

Step 1: Don't pick up Nash's contract option for next year. He still has value, but the Suns will once agan be a luxury tax payer with his full salary. You could trade him to a team with cap room, but he deserves a shot at a ring so pay him his $7M and let him chose his next team.

Step 2: Trade Shaq ($20M) to the Clippers for Baron ($12M) and Camby($7.6M). The Clippers get rid of two malcontents, get rid of the remaining four years on Baron's contract, and sell some tickets with Shaq on board. The Suns have never gone long without a franchise point, so that trend continues. Camby can focus on rebounding and shot blocking.

Step 3: Re-sign Hill and Barnes for minimum contracts. I''m 50/50 on Barnes, but let's see if he can recapture that magic with his old teammates.

Step 4: At #14, draft PG Jonny Flynn and let him compete with Dragic for backup PG. Also shift Baron to SG at times to get another distributor on the court. In the 2nd round, get Heytvelt from Zaga to toughen up Lopez.

PG: Baron / Dragic / Flynn
SG: Richardson / Barbosa / Tucker
SF: Hill / Barnes / Dudley
PF: Amar'e / Amundson / Heytvelt
C: Camby / Lopez

Say hello to the '07 Warriors mixed with SSOL mixed with the best possible defensive center for this group. Plenty of shooters, distributors, and post players. No more undersized guards, plus the luxury of a healthy Camby to erase defensive lapses. Total salary, with Nash's $7M, comes to about $73M which is right around the luxury tax line. The medical staff would have to work another couple of miracles to keep everybody healthy, but a full offseason of physical therapy would help.

Should Amar'e opt out the following year, you still have $37M in salaries and can be a big player in free agency. This is not a rebuilding plan, that can wait till we have our picks. In the meantime, Gentry can work on the defensive intensity and dust off some SSOL offensive sets. I know I'd pay to see it...

 

[Cody]

nice idea...it would give j rich a lil more chance to be to go to guy as well. i like.

 

[nashman]

No thanks!

 

[Blackification]

I like it but the baron thing is too out there.. I don't think they'd give up Baron and Camby for just Shaq. Trading Shaq to New Orleans for Chandler, Posey, and some other filler would be easier to accomplish.

 

[slinslin]

I don't know if the Suns should even do that without a draftpick from the Clips. Davis has been awful and has an awful contract, plus he is very injury prone.
I am also not sure you can accomplish what you want by putting yet again proven allstars with egos around Amare like Davis.

 

[cly2tw]

Everybody thought Dirk was soft and could do nothing but being on Nash's tail for uncontested jumpers. Yet, he became a franchise player of sort after separation from Nash and MVP himself two years later.

By all account, Amare is not less talented than Dirk. Trading him for some unknown parts will almost surely make Suns the Bullls after MJ and at best the Blazers, i.e. we need 10 years at least to get relevant again assuming that Kerr and co. were as good at talent evaluation as the Blazers. So, instead of getting 10 cents for the dollar on Amare, it'd be a good strategy to "grant his wish" and take a year to see what he could do as the alpha dog for the first time in his career, before diving into the odyssee of 10 years of Bulls, Clippers status.

The more I think about it, shipping Nash to Blazers for Batum/Blake/filler would be optimal. If we could convince Nets of a RobinLopez/Blake for Dooling/Boone/Williams trade, plus bringing Hill back for 3 mil a year, even without further moves we'd have a competitive roster.

Shaq/Amare/Hill/JRich/Dooling starting with bench of

Boone/Lou/Williams/Dudley/Batum/LB/Dragic/#14

 

[slinslin]

Would rather get Bayless and a first then Blake and Batum and Portland would likely prefer that also.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Nash for Blake/Batum/filler would be awesome. I'd be just fine with Blake/Dragic at the 1 next year and Batum would flourish in this offense. The problem is that he renders Dudley or Hill obsolete and I don't quite know who should go or even if I would want Batum over either of them....

 

[slinslin]

In this offense? This offense won't be "this offense" if we trade Nash.

If we want to win a championship we shouldn't play that way anyway however.

Blake/Batum sucks, there is too little potential in this trade.

 

[lou_skywalker]

Nash for Blake/Batum/filler would be awesome. I'd be just fine with Blake/Dragic at the 1 next year and Batum would flourish in this offense. The problem is that he renders Dudley or Hill obsolete and I don't quite know who should go or even if I would want Batum over either of them....

replace Blake with Bayless and I will think about it...
Blake pretty much reached his potential, while Bayless could still become a star.....
Also Blake is almost 30, so if we are rebuilding we should go REALLY young....

 

[Black Jesus]

Jonny Flynn isn't going to go pro.

I like all the ideas though, and as far as shaq for chandler and posey... I think that would be harder to accomplish and I don't know how Chandler and Amare would mesh on the court.

Like all your other ideas Quagmire, even the Flynn one, just don't think he is going pro.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

replace Blake with Bayless and I will think about it...
Blake pretty much reached his potential, while Bayless could still become a star.....
Also Blake is almost 30, so if we are rebuilding we should go REALLY young....

I'm all about that, too. Though, I do think Blake would actually improve his numbers here like so many other players have in the past....

 

[slinslin]

Jonny Flynn isn't going to go pro.

I like all the ideas though, and as far as shaq for chandler and posey... I think that would be harder to accomplish and I don't know how Chandler and Amare would mesh on the court.

Like all your other ideas Quagmire, even the Flynn one, just don't think he is going pro.

Everything indicates that Flynn will declare, but I would never take him over Rubio, Jennings, Lawson or Maynor.

 

[Ronin]

Step 4: At #14, draft PG Jonny Flynn

 

[Ninjafish]

Not just a no, oh hell no. I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that Amare is capable of leading a team. The Grizzlies turned down a trade with Amare because they said he wasn't a franchise player, like Kobe or Lebron or Wade. I have to say that's probably the case.

 

[Mainstreet]

Not just a no, oh hell no. I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that Amare is capable of leading a team. The Grizzlies turned down a trade with Amare because they said he wasn't a franchise player, like Kobe or Lebron or Wade. I have to say that's probably the case.

I have to agree. Also franchise players need to be able to stay healthy. This is the second season Amare has not been around come playoff time.

 

[Quagmire]

Not just a no, oh hell no. I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that Amare is capable of leading a team. The Grizzlies turned down a trade with Amare because they said he wasn't a franchise player, like Kobe or Lebron or Wade. I have to say that's probably the case.

If the alternative is to trade Amar'e for 10 cents on the dollar, then I would rather give him a two year shot. There is no reward for tanking next year, so unless you're certain Wade or LBJ wants to come here....

 

[Blackification]

Not just a no, oh hell no. I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that Amare is capable of leading a team. The Grizzlies turned down a trade with Amare because they said he wasn't a franchise player, like Kobe or Lebron or Wade. I have to say that's probably the case.

You've never seen it because he has never gotten a chance with nash and shaq running the team.

 

[Ninjafish]

If the alternative is to trade Amar'e for 10 cents on the dollar, then I would rather give him a two year shot. There is no reward for tanking next year, so unless your certain Wade or LBJ wants to come here....

I'd rather keep Amare and Nash. I'm not in favor of going into complete rebuilding mode yet. In fact, I think it would be silly to do so. Keep in mind, we've only seen Amare play under Gentry for I believe 2 games this year. Also we were a championship level team before Kerr made a series of bad moves. Perhaps we could be good once again if he just fixes his mistakes. (Even if you believe that Bell and Diaw declined tremendously as defenders, the trade was certainly a bad one, as we should have went for a defensive player, not an offensive player. There's no question about that. We should still try to get a decent athletic defender for JRich. And even though Shaq has had great stats, he has just never seemed like a good fit here.)

I'd like to keep everyone except those two and Barnes. If we're still a terrible team by all star break, then blow the team up. But at least let us see what a season with Gentry and Amare looks like.

 

[cly2tw]

Not just a no, oh hell no. I haven't seen anything yet to make me think that Amare is capable of leading a team. The Grizzlies turned down a trade with Amare because they said he wasn't a franchise player, like Kobe or Lebron or Wade. I have to say that's probably the case.

Did you see anything from Dirk and JoeJ before they separated from Nash? You named 3 surefire franchise players, but are you gonna get anything like that by trading away Amare, and 10c on the dollar?

If the alternative is to trade Amar'e for 10 cents on the dollar, then I would rather give him a two year shot. There is no reward for tanking next year, so unless your certain Wade or LBJ wants to come here....

Exactly.

 

[cly2tw]

You've never seen it because he has never gotten a chance with nash and shaq running the team.

so true. Amare might get exposed without Nash, unlike Dirk and JJ. But giving him a shot is better than 10 years and more existence of Phoenix Clippers or Bulls

 

[Mainstreet]

Did you see anything from Dirk and JoeJ before they separated from Nash? You named 3 surefire franchise players, but are you gonna get anything like that by trading away Amare, and 10c on the dollar?

Joe Johnson showed me a lot before he left Phoenix even with Nash, Marion and Amare on board. It was obvious to many fans who watched him closely. Too bad Sarver couldn't see it. Dirk matured as a player as did Nash who won two MVPs without him.

The question about Amare really comes down to, do the Suns really want to give Amare a max contract? In 2010 he can walk for nothing so I prefer to trade him (with his history of injury) providing a team will give anything near fair value.

 

[cly2tw]

Joe Johnson showed me a lot before he left Phoenix even with Nash, Marion and Amare on board. It was obvious to many fans who watched him closely. Too bad Sarver couldn't see it. Dirk matured as a player as did Nash who won two MVPs without him.

The question about Amare really comes down to, do the Suns really want to give Amare a max contract? In 2010 he can walk for nothing so I prefer to trade him (with his history of injury) providing a team will give anything near fair value.

First, I think Amare now is better than JJ and Dirk before their respective separation from Nash.

2nd, that may not mean either deserve a max contract as does Amare.

3rd, in this league, you will give somebody the max somewhen. The fully deserving ones are rare, and your chance of giving it to the likes of Penny, Lewis, Randolph is a lot higher than to Wade, LBJ, KG, Kobe, and Duncan. Amare is not that bad in that comparison.

4th, you can't get much in return trading Amare now. You better figure it out next year whether you want to give him a max contract or not. And that assessment can't be done properly if you had Nash dominating the ball the way it has been.

 

[elindholm]

First, I think Amare now is better than JJ and Dirk before their respective separation from Nash.

Nowitkzi was better before the separation than Stoudemire is now, but in any case, you are overrating both Nowitzki and Johnson. Nowitzki was victimized by one of the biggest playoff upsets in NBA history and hasn't done squat since. Johnson isn't even clearly the best player on his mediocre team. Both are fine players, but neither is in the category of superstar or franchise player or whatever you want to call it.

3rd, in this league, you will give somebody the max somewhen. The fully deserving ones are rare, and your chance of giving it to the likes of Penny, Lewis, Randolph is a lot higher than to Wade, LBJ, KG, Kobe, and Duncan. Amare is not that bad in that comparison.

Yes, but the way to get ahead in this league is to make better financial decisions than your opponents. Extending Stoudemire for $20 million per year is a bad move, no matter which team talks themselves into it. Let someone else make that mistake. You'll note that the teams who gave maximum deals to Hardaway and Randolph regretted it almost instantly. Lewis's deal will be seen as a huge mistake very soon; it's already probably going to cost the Magic Turkoglu, who is at least as valuable to them as Lewis is.

4th, you can't get much in return trading Amare now. You better figure it out next year whether you want to give him a max contract or not. And that assessment can't be done properly if you had Nash dominating the ball the way it has been.

That's true. The Suns can't really afford to trade Stoudemire now because the return will be lousy. Even before he hurt his eye, the offers at the trade deadline were weak; you can bet the market for him will be quite a bit softer now.

Most likely, the Suns have to keep Stoudemire through this contract, whether he accepts his 2010-11 option or not, then decide what they want to do with him once he's a free agent. Remember, the Suns did not "lose" Johnson. They had the right to match his contract offer from Atlanta, and reports were that Sarver was prepared to do exactly that before Johnson talked him out of it. They won't have matching rights in Stoudemire's case, but even so, it's extremely likely that he will stay with the team if they offer him a maximum extension. The decision is pretty much theirs no matter when they make it.

And if Stoudemire does bolt for what he perceives to be greener passages, that's the way it goes. There will always be another player or group of players to spend that money on. The best-case scenario for the Suns is that they wait long enough to realize that Stoudemire isn't a good long-term investment, then let him go.

 

[cly2tw]

Nowitkzi was better before the separation than Stoudemire is now, but in any case, you are overrating both Nowitzki and Johnson. Nowitzki was victimized by one of the biggest playoff upsets in NBA history and hasn't done squat since. Johnson isn't even clearly the best player on his mediocre team. Both are fine players, but neither is in the category of superstar or franchise player or whatever you want to call it.



Yes, but the way to get ahead in this league is to make better financial decisions than your opponents. Extending Stoudemire for $20 million per year is a bad move, no matter which team talks themselves into it. Let someone else make that mistake. You'll note that the teams who gave maximum deals to Hardaway and Randolph regretted it almost instantly. Lewis's deal will be seen as a huge mistake very soon; it's already probably going to cost the Magic Turkoglu, who is at least as valuable to them as Lewis is.
.

The economics of handing out max contract is not an exact science by all means. Boston had 3 max contracts to win their championship last year, after sitting years on Pierce's with less merit I'd say than Amare's even. None of them is a franchise player of the caliber TD, Wade, LBJ, Kobe. However, the outcome justifies the spending in the end.

I was not saying that JJ and Dirk were or are Wade/Kobe like franchise player. But the market will get them max contracts. In some sense, as long as you are a tradable asset on such a contract, the team is fine still, like when Marbury could be shipped to NY for our rebuilding. In any case, unless Amare goes down due to injury like Penny, he'd be at least a JJ and Dirk type of max player, not Lewis, Redd, Randolph like.

As to Dirk then was already better than Amare now, I'd beg to differ. They weren't playing for nothing when Nash was on Mavs. Dirk was never seen more than a smooth shooter with an unguardable fallaway jumper from anywhere. Nash had younger legs then and was less atrocious on defense or they didn't care as much anyway. In some games this season, when they tried to establish Amare at highpost as the distributor, he did quite well. On defense, which scoring PF is really better than Amare? Brand maybe? His help defense can't be fairly assessed due to Nash, who is quite uniquely bad. So, that leaves his main weakness at postup offense. Well, that's exactly the part we need next season to evaluate, withou Nash dominating the ball.

All in all, we don't seem to have any other option than to stick with Amare next season. I believe it's good risk to give him the team for one season, before the odyssee into the Clipper land for the next 10 years ensues. Even with multiple high picks and great management, it took Blazers that long to be relevant again. Clippers, Bulls, Sonics, are all still the same despite those picks. Well, Bulls may luck out this time with Rose though.