Green on Josh and others...

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Well, it is excessively difficult for them to determine how well McCown manages a game being the new coaching staff because I think we all had questions just how well the old staff managed the game. I don't think we can say right now that Ben R manages and NFL game any better than Josh does so the issue would remain.

Based on what Green was saying on the radio, I read it more that green was talking up his athletic ability and really not alot else. I don't think it is a smoke screen since McCown IS very athletic.

Personally, I don't think trading Josh makes any sense even if the Cards DO draft a QB at #3. Blake would be gone after this up coming season likely so why not keep McCown around and let him continue to develop. He isn't a major hit on the cap or anything plus he has shown he CAN play in the NFL thus far. Then he could step in at #2 (assuming you are able to re-sign him) after Blake is gone.

You could even keep Parsons on the practice squad since I kind of doubt there would be much interest in him (although some posters here probably think of him as Preston Montana given how they gush).

The only advantage go having BOTH Josh and Ben(or Eli) on the roster is at some point you can trade one of them for a high pick if they both develop as you hope. Depth is wonderful but at their ages if they both develop, one will demand a trade anyways.

So if we trade Josh for a 2nd rounder this year, get a CB, that may be a great move. Of course if he keeps developing he might be worth a FIRST rounder, in which case trading him now would be dumb.

I do agree judging him is tough to do, I guess what I'm saying is there's a difference between teaching a guy to read defenses, footwork and mechanics, and a guy who goes back there, gets rushed, and hits his LT in the helmet. I keep going back to the Graves quote about Josh getting nervous, he DOES eventually calm down but I get nervous myself thinking of a starting QB who has that tendency.

I'm just getting off my medication from the Jake years I don't want to go back on it because of Josh, so I sure hope he settles down.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
The only advantage go having BOTH Josh and Ben(or Eli) on the roster is at some point you can trade one of them for a high pick if they both develop as you hope. Depth is wonderful but at their ages if they both develop, one will demand a trade anyways.

So if we trade Josh for a 2nd rounder this year, get a CB, that may be a great move. Of course if he keeps developing he might be worth a FIRST rounder, in which case trading him now would be dumb.

I do agree judging him is tough to do, I guess what I'm saying is there's a difference between teaching a guy to read defenses, footwork and mechanics, and a guy who goes back there, gets rushed, and hits his LT in the helmet. I keep going back to the Graves quote about Josh getting nervous, he DOES eventually calm down but I get nervous myself thinking of a starting QB who has that tendency.

I'm just getting off my medication from the Jake years I don't want to go back on it because of Josh, so I sure hope he settles down.

I think it is a shame that McCown gets continually blasted for the Shelton error. Every QB makes huge errors in judgement. I think we should move past that one throw. He did more good than bad in his starts and all people focus on is one throw...a panic throw to be sure...but it is completely unfair to judge him by one throw.

I didn't think he was as nervous starting the MIN game as he was before. I believe the experience he has gotten (and IMO will hopefully continue to get) will minimize that reaction from him and it will become "just another game" each week.

I doubt Josh will bring a 2nd rounder personally but if he did, then it would make sense to make the trade. It will fill another hole opn the team. I just get a feeling though that right now Josh wouldn't even bring a 3rd rounder. Maybe with a remarkable preseason his trade stock would rise but then we are talking about him being a FA anyways after this year so the trade idea is out the door.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Re: Re: Re: Top 5 B-ball player!?

Originally posted by john h
How about Gonzales the tight end who was an All American forward at UCLA. I think he could have made it in the NBA. Our Arkansas QB Matt Jones opted to wait until next year to enter the draft. He is 6'6" and is playing forward on our basketball team. He also can play wide receiiver and may enter the NFL draft as a wide receiver

gonzo played at cal. i don't think he could have made the nba. he was a 6'5 power forward.

 

[danny l]

If getting nervous in their 1st start was something that they couldn't live down, some hall of famers wouldn't be in the HoF. Heard Elway relate the story of how he got down to take the snap before he realized that he was under the guard. Said the guard jumped like he had been goosed.

 

[Evil Ash]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I doubt Josh will bring a 2nd rounder personally but if he did, then it would make sense to make the trade. It will fill another hole opn the team. I just get a feeling though that right now Josh wouldn't even bring a 3rd rounder. Maybe with a remarkable preseason his trade stock would rise but then we are talking about him being a FA anyways after this year so the trade idea is out the door.

Just FYI ... Josh McCown would become a restricted FA after the end of next year so the trade idea is still valid.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by danny l
If getting nervous in their 1st start was something that they couldn't live down, some hall of famers wouldn't be in the HoF. Heard Elway relate the story of how he got down to take the snap before he realized that he was under the guard. Said the guard jumped like he had been goosed.

Instead of a deer in the headlights, Elway looked like a horse in the headlights.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by Evil Ash
Just FYI ... Josh McCown would become a restricted FA after the end of next year so the trade idea is still valid.

Good point. I got a year ahead of myself.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Re: Top 5 B-ball player!?

Originally posted by kerouac9
Who cares? I don't remember who else I read was a good cager in the NFL, but I know that these guys play semi-pro ball:

Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Tony Gonzales. There's someone else, but I don't remember. I hear Master P posterizes Josh, though.

Regardless, I'm not sure how ringing an endorsement that really is. Notice Denny didn't say anything about Josh's accuracy, arm strength, decision-making, etc. This sounds a lot like a smoke-screen to me.

QB-athelete is an interesting question:

1. Mike Vick
2. Donnie McNabb
3. Daunte Culpepper
T4. Quincy Carter
T4. Aaron Brooks

I don't know about all that. I do agree with Krang that Josh is, without question, the most athletic/fastest white QB in the NFL, but to say that he's a Top 5 QB athlete might be a bit of a stretch.

McCown is actually a better athlete than Quincy Carter. He's faster, more agile, bigger, and has a better arm. All the measureables.

Mike McMahon is pretty athletic as well, but he doesn't have McCown's accuracy (I'm not saying McCown is accurate only that he's more accurate than McMahon).

 

[DevonCardsFan]

Originally posted by AZCB34


Personally, I don't think trading Josh makes any sense even if the Cards DO draft a QB at #3. Blake would be gone after this up coming season likely so why not keep McCown around and let him continue to develop. He isn't a major hit on the cap or anything plus he has shown he CAN play in the NFL thus far. Then he could step in at #2 (assuming you are able to re-sign him) after Blake is gone.

You could even keep Parsons on the practice squad since I kind of doubt there would be much interest in him (although some posters here probably think of him as Preston Montana given how they gush).

Good Post, it would be pointless to trade Josh and you are drinking some serious Cardinal Kool-Aid if you expect anything more than a 5th rounder for the guy.Keep him around let him compete against a rookie or a vet for a starting spot, if he does well then he gains some trade value. Right now I see no trade value for McCown.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by DevonCardsFan
Right now I see no trade value for McCown.

Correct. That's why you might find a coach on the radio talking him up.

 

[pinnacle]

where are all of my posts from early in the season where I was pontificating that Josh might be the fastest qb in the league outside of MIchael Vick.....guess it is kind of common knowledge now that he is fast. I thought we should have run more qb designed running plays when Josh became a starter...just run them early to loosen the defense up....but then I saw that he had not figured out how to slide..so maybe that was a bad idea.

 

[Shuesters2]

Originally posted by AZCB34
I think it is a shame that McCown gets continually blasted for the Shelton error. Every QB makes huge errors in judgement. I think we should move past that one throw. He did more good than bad in his starts and all people focus on is one throw...a panic throw to be sure...but it is completely unfair to judge him by one throw.

I didn't think he was as nervous starting the MIN game as he was before. I believe the experience he has gotten (and IMO will hopefully continue to get) will minimize that reaction from him and it will become "just another game" each week.

I doubt Josh will bring a 2nd rounder personally but if he did, then it would make sense to make the trade. It will fill another hole opn the team. I just get a feeling though that right now Josh wouldn't even bring a 3rd rounder. Maybe with a remarkable preseason his trade stock would rise but then we are talking about him being a FA anyways after this year so the trade idea is out the door.

Concur,

Josh is a second year guy that made some dumb plays early such as the Shelton pass and the Carolina pick. But those mistakes were not repeated later. You could see his growth each game and tell he was adjusting to the game speed and picking it up. (Unlike Jake. Remember his behind the back pick against Oakland.... in his 6th year. And Jake never did see that LB crossing in front of the receiver!)

Every teams needs at least two good QBs and Blake is definately not the answer. Keep Josh, he may in time become a better QB than Eli, Ben or Rivers. If the Cards draft one of them great. The competion will make them both better players. Besides who would give us a 2nd for McCown? And how high of a pick would be used to draft a player to replace Josh... even as a back-up it would be a 3rd or 4th. In a game where the starter can be lost for the season on the next play, having a rookie 4th rounder run the team is a very iffy prospect. Keep Josh.

Shuesters

 

[Phill11]

Re: Top 5 B-ball player!?

Originally posted by kerouac9

QB-athelete is an interesting question:

1. Mike Vick
2. Donnie McNabb
3. Daunte Culpepper
T4. Quincy Carter
T4. Aaron Brooks

I don't know about all that. I do agree with Krang that Josh is, without question, the most athletic/fastest white QB in the NFL, but to say that he's a Top 5 QB athlete might be a bit of a stretch.

McNair? He is in the top 2. It goes Vick, McNair, Culpepper, McNabb, Carter. IMO.

 

[Diggity]

When it comes to Curling! Brett Favre takes the field Hands Down

 

[kerouac9]

Re: Re: Top 5 B-ball player!?

Originally posted by Phill11
McNair? He is in the top 2. It goes Vick, McNair, Culpepper, McNabb, Carter. IMO.

Oh, yeah. My bad. I totally forgot about him. You're right. But I still think that Culpepper and McNabb are better athletes than McNair. For me, it'd be Vick, Culpepper, McNabb, McNair, Brooks.

 

[JeffGollin]

Right now I see no trade value for McCown.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Correct. That's why you might find a coach on the radio talking him up.
If you're Denny Green, it's in the team's best interest to talk up McCown if you want to trade him and also in the team's best interest if you want to keep him - by building up his confidence so that he'll learn better and play better.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Question.......


Since when is it an intelligent and utililized strategy to groom a QB (or any player for that matter) primarily as "trade bait"????

Haven't some of you noticed that there really are very few actual "trades" in the NFL anymore?? Free agency pretty much eliminated the functionality of that.

Yes, if someone finds themselves with a player that doesn't fit with their organizational plans (if they have one, which I suspect most do, at some level, at least) or a surplus at a certain position or in desperate need of a different position, MAY trade for draft picks....which is a total crapshoot.

To me, to include Josh McCown in any of those scenarios reeks of ostrich-like perception.

 

[Shuesters2]

Bump for comparison on latest Josh article.

 

[SECTION 11]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Since when is it an intelligent and utililized strategy to groom a QB (or any player for that matter) primarily as "trade bait"????

I think backup QB's make great trade bait. Ala Green Bay over the years under Favre.

 

[vince56]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Haven't some of you noticed that there really are very few actual "trades" in the NFL anymore?? Free agency pretty much eliminated the functionality of that.

I agree with one exception... draft day. Lots of trades have occured over the years on or around draft day. It's not uncommon to trade a backup QB either. Two I can think of off the top of my head are Bledsoe, and currently what's going on with Drew Henson.